661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[redbull660]

Going back to the original Ultralight testing showed that H1R provided clean burning and protection for the engine. It also showed that H1R used 15% more mix to produce the same amount of work. Other people that used H1R indicated that they had to open the carburetor jets to let the H1R mix run properly. There are other oils that provide the benefits of H1R without affecting the combustion efficiency.

I suspect that the combustion efficiency of H1R may push some of the auto tune carburetors outside of the range that they can compensate for.

If that is indeed the case then H1R should be slower than the other oils in the mtronic.

 

[bwalker]

Not at all. Not meant to be. Most all the "Pros" on this site have always dissed TCW3 and went the way of boutique oils that's all. Something about watercraft oil is meant to run at cooler temps than chainsaws is what I've always read.

That's not an old wives tale tcw3 oils should not be used in air cooled equipment. The chemistries are totaly different.
And honestly why would when there are plenty of cheap air cooled oils out there?

 

[bwalker]

H1R is not necessarily "garbage" or "junk". It is being used here for a purpose that it was not engineered for. I suspect that it is at it's best in screaming twenty thousand RPM race engines running on exotic fuels.

Racing is a good way to develop and test theory and products for non racing. But the technology needs to relate to the purpose at hand.

They say that the space race and NASA developed technology that trickled down to every day use. However, I am never going to install a five million dollar vacuum toilet in my house. I am not using H1R in my chain saws. H1R does seem to be working well in the bullet lube I formulated.

The elephant in the room is the EPA. Equipment manufacturers developed products to meet EPA standards. They contracted with oil producers to develop oils that meet EPA standards. Oil producers develop "race" oils that provide maximum endurance and performance in "race" engines. Find a "race" oil that was developed to run in a "race" engine that has similar characteristics to your chain saw.

I still think it is valid to believe that more oil provides better ring sealing and more power. Providing the engine is properly tuned for it. I also think that it provides better bearing protection. I think that 32 to 1 has become the "magic" number because the general consensus is that is the point of diminishing returns. Unless it is an all out racing machine.

If it.inhibits combustion at low RPMs it will do the same at high RPMs. And most racing two strokes are turning less rpm than our saws.

 

[bwalker]

My recommendation has always been to run a full synthetic oil of your choice. I have never just recommended a certain brand exclusively.


YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN THAT, NOT IN THE LEAST!!! Until you test some of these other high viscosity ester oils, you haven't begun to prove that. You're just as bent on H1-R as bwalker is on Yamalube, yet have little evidence to prove your point. Can you not see that?


Exactly!!!

My recommendation has always been to run a full synthetic oil of your choice. I have never just recommended a certain brand exclusively.


YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN THAT, NOT IN THE LEAST!!! Until you test some of these other high viscosity ester oils, you haven't begun to prove that. You're just as bent on H1-R as bwalker is on Yamalube, yet have little evidence to prove your point. Can you not see that?


Exactly!!!

I'm not bent on 2R, it is just a great oil for a good price with a track record longer than any of these other oils. There are other good oils out there,just not H1R. IT'S TRULY CRAP!

 

[huskihl]

That's not an old wives tale tcw3 oils should not be used in air cooled equipment. The chemistries are totaly different.
And honestly why would when there are plenty of cheap air cooled oils out there?

There isn't much around locally that's inexpensive. Yamaha dealer $15 per pint. Stihl dealer has small bottles of fb rated ultra for same $. So they go to Walmart and get a gallon for $12. Speaks for itself.
Honestly I never knew the difference, that chainsaws "required" a different oil. The "other stuff" always worked so I never inquired about it. Maybe I'm becoming more of a keyboard queen now I guess. Easier on the back

 

[bwalker]

Walmart has a air cooled oil and penzoil aircooled is found everywhere.

 

[huskihl]

Not in Gaylord or Petoskey

 

[bwalker]

Not in Gaylord or

Not in Gaylord or Petoskey

Gaylord has a Citgo. Citgo aircooled is a decent oil and it's actually FC/FD certified.
I have seen equipment ran on tcw3 outboard oils and the engines are a mess. Tcw3 oils are designed to be run under high load and low temps. They are ashless, which means they have no mettalic detergents or anti wear additives. Instead they use nitrogen amine based dispersents, which will not even work at the temps a aircooled engine operates at.

 

[huskihl]

Gaylord has a Citgo. Citgo aircooled is a decent oil and it's actually FC/FD certified.
I have seen equipment ran on tcw3 outboard oils and the engines are a mess. Tcw3 oils are designed to be run under high load and low temps. They are ashless, which means they have no mettalic detergents or anti wear additives. Instead they use nitrogen amine based dispersents, which will not even work at the temps a aircooled engine operates at.

Hmm. The citgo was the one I was looking for. I'll check next time again. I've seen the pennzoil one before but it's been awhile. Any possibility that citgo is now mystic ? A couple searches redirected me to that.

 

[KenJax Tree]

Just a quick search i found 11 places in Gaylord and Petoskey that sell Lucas

 

[huskihl]

Just a quick search i found 11 places in Gaylord and Petoskey that sell Lucas

Yep. It's a lot easier to throw in the cart when you're at walmart at 10pm grocery shopping tho. I think advance auto has it. I went there to get some. At 9:02 pm.......... I ordered a gallon through jeggs. $30 delivered

 

[redbull660]

My recommendation has always been to run a full synthetic oil of your choice. I have never just recommended a certain brand exclusively.


YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN THAT, NOT IN THE LEAST!!! Until you test some of these other high viscosity ester oils, you haven't begun to prove that. You're just as bent on H1-R as bwalker is on Yamalube, yet have little evidence to prove your point. Can you not see that?


Exactly!!!

Maulhead's MM 661 improved throughout the day after switching from 32:1 H1R to 40:1 H1R .

1. It wasn't mastermind's port work & it wasn't the H1R. It was the AMOUNT of H1R - After switching from 32:1 H1R to 40:1 H1R the saw improved through out the rest of the day. LATER in the day Mitch's ported 661 at 32:1 ultra was equal to Maulhead's MM661 running 40:1 H1R.

Fact is ...Multiple people saw this and Tested this!


sorry this doesn't adhere to the 32:1 gospel. Bottom line is You just don't need to pour in as much H1R to do the SAME job.



"Many other 2-stroke oils utilize light solvents as carriers in order to better dissolve them in the gasoline and carry the additives easier (some are up to 30% solvent). These light solvents do burn very easily and will attribute to the combustion. The H1-R is pure oil and does not have any solvents, this is one of the reasons H1-R can also sometimes be used at a leaner mix ratio than other oils as well."

 

[redbull660]

Does that make H1R better or faster? I dunno.

better - you'd have to measure over time with tear downs. mastermind had good success with it. I'm not saying we should be running h1R at 50:1. I would bet 36:1 would have no issues (in ported saw). In my tests 32:1 seemed to be the tipping point. You'd see it with less concentrated oils as well if you ran them at heavier ratios where the amount of actual oil in the gas was the same. For 800 that might be 28:1 2r maybe 20-24:1 Hard to tell. But you'd have issues.

faster - we'd have to test the oils. I plan to but not sure when.

 

[redbull660]

To say that all these 2T oils are the same - is false.

To say we can run all these 2T oils at 32:1 and expect the same level of performance and protection - is false.

not the greatest example but all I can think of right now cuz I'm cleaning (mother's day). It's like saying all dish soaps are the same and will deliver the same quality of cleaning using the same amount.

Completely ridiculous.

 

[blsnelling]

... it wasn't the H1R. It was the AMOUNT of H1R - After switching from 32:1 H1R to 40:1 H1R the saw improved through out the rest of the day.

Please tell me how you know this? This may or not be true, but you have done no testing at all to prove this. Until you test some other high viscosity ester oils, you simply do not know this to be true! It may be, but you have not proven that!!

 

[blsnelling]

To say that all these 2T oils are the same - is false.

To say we can run all these 2T oils at 32:1 and expect the same level of performance and protection - is false.

not the greatest example but all I can think of right now cuz I'm cleaning (mother's day). It's like saying all dish soaps are the same and will deliver the same quality of cleaning using the same amount.

Completely ridiculous.

This may be true as well, but until you test some other oils, your making assumptions.

 

[blsnelling]

Does that make H1R better or faster? I dunno.

better - you'd have to measure over time with tear downs. mastermind had good success with it.

Again, you're making assumptions. I can pretty much guarantee you that he would have equal success with most any quality oil running 32:1. Please stop making assumptions and drawing conclusions until you have done some additional testing.

 

[blsnelling]

BTW, I'm not against either you or your testing. You simply need to do more of it before making many of the statements.

 

[redbull660]

This may be true as well, but until you test some other oils, your making assumptions.

if they were equal they would have the same chemical & physical make up. the fact that they have different physical properties like different viscosities = they are designed for different applications. I'm sorry man I just can't help you...it just doesn't get much more elementary than that.

Please tell me how you know this? This may or not be true, but you have done no testing at all to prove this. Until you test some other high viscosity ester oils, you simply do not know this to be true! It may be, but you have not proven that!!

No. The rest of the post explains why. I'm not going to type it out differently...reword it. Instead you tell me how the rest of the post DOESN"T prove it.

Again, you're making assumptions. I can pretty much guarantee you that he would have equal success with most any quality oil running 32:1. Please stop making assumptions and drawing conclusions until you have done some additional testing.

I'm making assumptions? He had success. Fact. That's not an assumption. You just made the "assumption" with " I can pretty much guarantee you that he would have equal success with most any quality oil running 32:1".




Oh I know your not against my testing. Cuz no one else is going to do it. No one is going to be as meticulous, take the time, or spend the money.

 

[blsnelling]

If you can't see where you're making assumptions and drawing conclusions without having tested what you're saying, then this conversation is pretty pointless. Sorry. I've tried to help you understand how you could make this better, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears.