661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[bwalker]

Item 11 on that msds of toxicological information clearly states h1r as a carcinogen? Id be willing to bet you can go to every msds of each manufacturer and it would state the same? From a legal standpoint they are probably required to state it though

Better look again... it clearly states under item #11 the quote I posted above.

 

[KG441c]

BWalker u r right is says not considered buy read the statement after. Due to the lack of data classification not possible! Lol! Wonder what they r trying to cover up?? Dont think Id want to drink a quart!! Lol! Do u have any pics of yamalube piston tops? Ive ran Yamalube, hp2, and r50 in my yz250 with 0 issues

 

[bwalker]

BWalker u r right is says not considered buy read the statement after. Due to the lack of data classification not possible! Lol! Wonder what they r trying to cover up?? Dont think Id want to drink a quart!! Lol! Do u have any pics of yamalube piston tops? Ive ran Yamalube, hp2, and r50 in my yz250 with 0 issues

It tells me there is a lack of data to support it being labeled a carcinogen...
I do not have any other pistons on hand currently. Typically don't save them.

 

[KG441c]

Im wondering about the oil reacting differently in the shorter stroke vs the longer strokes of the bikes?

 

[bwalker]

The pattern I have noticed is that oils perform very similar in a saw as a bike ie the pattern of deposits look similar when the same oil is ran in a saw as a bike. I have not tried every oil out there, but that's been my observation with the ones I have tried.

 

[KG441c]

What comes to mind in paticular is more trapped compressions effect on seperation of the mix vs less trapped compression?

 

[KG441c]

And do different oils react differently in that enviroment?

 

[bwalker]

What comes to mind in paticular is more trapped compressions effect on seperation of the mix vs less trapped compression?

Are you talking about crankcase pressure? If so this is influenced by crankcase volume and not stroke.

 

[blsnelling]

And do different oils react differently in that enviroment?

What do you mean by react differently?

 

[Flatie]

View attachment 417498

Well that doesnt look so great... All other pics ive seen eg, " rc plane test motor and husksthil" pistons have all had next to zero deposits on them. I wonder why you have such a dirty piston?!
Have you run 800t and was it showing the same results?

 

[KG441c]

Are you talking about crankcase pressure? If so this is influenced by crankcase volume and not stroke.

yes thats what I meant . Sorry

 

[bwalker]

Well that doesnt look so great... All other pics ive seen eg, " rc plane test motor and husksthil" pistons have all had next to zero deposits on them. I wonder why you have such a dirty piston?!
Have you run 800t and was it showing the same results?

No, I havent for a couple of reasons.

 

[Flatie]

No, I havent for a couple of reasons.

Please do tell...
Are you also saying that huskstihl and the RC guys tune is overly rich hence why there getting no deposits and you are?

 

[KG441c]

What do you mean by react differently?

Im not sure exactly! Lol! Thinkin out loud mostly but was wondering if the oil is seperating in the crankcase and adhering to the surfaces, is it more desirable for it to seperate sooner or later and does compression affect this and do different oils do this better than others according to their makeup?

 

[KG441c]

No, I havent for a couple of reasons.

What do u not like about 800t?

 

[Marshy]

Well that doesnt look so great... All other pics ive seen eg, " rc plane test motor and husksthil" pistons have all had next to zero deposits on them. I wonder why you have such a dirty piston?!
Have you run 800t and was it showing the same results?

That carbon on the piston is typical of any 2 stroke engine. If you have a piston without that black carbon then it's either running way too rich or does not have enough run time.

 

[Marshy]

Im not sure exactly! Lol! Thinkin out loud mostly but was wondering if the oil is seperating in the crankcase and adhering to the surfaces, is it more desirable for it to seperate sooner or later and does compression affect this and do different oils do this better than others according to their makeup?

Why do you believe the oil separates out of solution? I don't think that happens. I've never heard of it happening and don't see how that is possible. If you have some supporting data I would like to read about it. I think your are over complicating things in your own mind.

 

[Flatie]

That carbon on the piston is typical of any 2 stroke engine. If you have a piston without that black carbon then it's either running way too rich or does not have enough run time.

Is 5 gallons enough run time? Someone posted a pic of there piston tops the other day which was run on 800t and there was "zero" deposits after.

 

[KG441c]

Maybe so but why is their oil left behind on the surfaces if it isnt seperating?

 

[Mastermind]

More oil = more protection. That's why we run it. If it costs just a bit of performance, so be it. Everything is a compromise in building performance anyway. Think about a supercharger. It takes quite a lot of HP to turn a supercharger. That doesn't mean it's not beneficial and should be removed. Maybe not the best analogy, but you get the idea. Do we need 32:1? Maybe not. Do we need more than 50:1? IMHO, absolutely! I'm not ready to invest the time and energy in finding the sweet spot for each oil in my engines. Until someone else does it for me, I'll continue running 32:1.

When looking for the perfect oil ratio of a particular oil, cut times and 10-20* of cylinder temp would not be my deciding factor. I would think you would need to actually find where a saw failed, and then see what it took to prevent that failure. There are just so many variables that I'm not even sure how you would go about it. Redbull obviously isn't prepared to destroy his saws in this investigation. Hopefully we'll be able to pull some valuable knowledge from this discussion. I'm just not at all comfortable with saying mix XYZ was faster and ran 20* cooler, so it's better. That does not measure the level of protection. It sounds to me that there's a balancing act between protection and performance. I personally will err on the side of protection.

Enough rambling!!!

Good post.

I'm staying with 32:1 as well. I am gonna give Yamalube 2R a try though.

A question to Randy & Brad ... I know you are both devout 32:1 fans, and I understand why. I get that 50:1 is minimal protection, likely not enough for most ported engines.

Have you guys seen many oil related failures from people running 40:1? Thanks.

No I've not.

I recommend that all OE oils (Stihl Ultra, Husky silver, etc be used at 40:1 in the engines I modify. Belray, Motul, etc at 32:1.