You run a saw at steady throttle for three hours straight?
661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?
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KG441c
Keith
Yamaha rig free additive will clean one up or keep it clean
Rust can happen pretty quick in humid climates or those with salt air.
KG441c
Keith
Who says steady throttle is limited to 3 hrs?
Deal with what?
And ester oils are nothing new.. they were around in the 70's.
Most of the new JASO-FD, ISO-EG oils are not ester based
The test was ran at steady throttle for 3+ hours straight..
Corrosion protection.
KG441c
Keith
A ported saw cutting 50" wood for 20 cuts would be full throttle I think or milling using a full tank of fuel non stop would be my idea of full throttle for a saw? To me that would require a lower ratio and properly adjusted tune. Personally I think ester oils far exceed in this application
Excus
Even cutting 50" wood for twenty cuts you would have the time between cuts where the engine is at idle.
Excuse me it was 6 hours straight...
Even cutting 50" wood for twenty cuts you would have the time between cuts where the engine is at idle.
I wouldn't get too hung up on ester bases or any other base. Some oils are good and some are not as good.
Marine oils usually have corrosion additives, but air cooled oils typical do not. Air cooled oils do typical have some calcium based detergents in their blend and these will neutralize acids that cause corrosion, but a very limited amount. Esters are the absolute worst for corrosion as some some are hydroscopic and they are unstable in the presence of moisture.
General speaking of course.
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
Exactly.
That goes for me or anyone else.
My ideas change over time, and as new information is revealed to me.
Like this 262 on my bench with a popup. When I did that saw I was convinced that there was no difference in how compression was increased......only that it was increased. I was very proud of my popup pistons, and did a bunch of saws with them.
I've given the tuning of H1R a lot of thought lately. When I'm at the lathe my mind is everywhere.
I really don't like the idea that the oil I run may not tune the same as the oil the next user adds to the saw.
Hopefully Yamalube R2 won't stink like crap (or perfume) and runs clean. It's still gonna be used at 32:1, but will ease my mind on the tune thing.
2R has very little smell.
From what I understand, most, if not all, of these ester based oils we are discussing have corrosion inhibitors and or simply it's not an issue.
Here's a good write up from a motorcycle forum.
This isn’t exactly a scientifically conducted test, it’s just my opinions and observations about several different oils that I have tried over the last few years, on both my KX250 and my KDX250. All of these results are obtained running a 26:1 ratio, with jetting as close to perfect as I am capable of. Each oil was used through the life of at least one top-end. I only use Wiseco pistons and rings.
Golden Spectro: This oil did a good job of protecting the piston and cylinder. The piston was a little shiny on the intake side, but wear was within specs, and the piston and cylinder otherwise looked OK. There was a good coating of residual oil in both the top and bottom of the engine. It is a dirty-burning oil, however. It leaves a lot of carbon deposits on the piston crown and head, and really gums up the ring grooves and the power valves. And this oil spooges! No matter how sharp you try to jet, the spooge simply can’t be completely eliminated. I wouldn’t run this oil again unless I had no alternative, it’s just too dirty. As a side note that may or may not be related to the oil, this is the only pre-mix that I have ever had an engine failure while using, with the thrust-bearings on the KDX250 crank pin seizing. It was probably just a fluke, and I can’t pin it down to lubrication failure, but it’s always stuck in my head.
Maxima Super-M: This oil didn’t protect the piston as well as I would like to see in my engines. The piston was noticably shiny and scuffed on both the intake and exhaust sides, and the top-end was almost dry upon tear-down, although the bottom-end seemed to be well lubed. The ring grooves were reasonably clean, but the piston crown and head had significant deposits, as well as the powervalves, although not as bad as the Golden Spectro. Another oil that I just can’t recommend, it just doesn’t seem to leave the engine well lubricated or clean. I also felt this oil left an off-color on the plugs, making jetting a little more difficult.
Maxima Castor 927: Very slight scuffing on the intake side of the piston, but over-all everything looked good. The ring grooves had slight deposits, and the piston crown and head had slight build-up that was well within reason. The powervalves were gummy, but not to the point of seizing or failing, again within reason for a non-synthetic oil, and excellent for a castor-based oil. Both the top and bottom-end of the engine were very oily and well-lubed with plenty of residual build-up. And the smell of this oil is wonderfully sweet, better than any other oil I’ve used. I liked using this oil just for the smell! Overall a good oil with no real bad points.
Redline: This was a strange oil. The piston and cylinder looked good, with minor shiny spots but no scuffing, and everything was reasonably clean and well-lubed. But this oil actually left surface rust on the crank wheels, and tarnished the carb brass. It also had a tendency to gum up the carb jets for some reason. How a metal surface can be both oily and have rust on it is beyond me, but clearly this oil lacks any proper corrosion-inhibitors. I would suppose it must have a high polyol-ester concentration, which would have the tendency to attract moisture. I would never use it again, nor could I recommend it.
Mobil 1 MX2T: The piston and cylinder looked great with this oil. No noticable shiny spots or scuffing on the piston at all. The top and bottom of the engine were well lubed with plenty of residual build-up, and even the powervalves were oily and lubed. No other oil that I’ve used compares to the cleanliness of this oil. The piston, head, and powervalves were nearly spotless, the valves didn’t even really need cleaning. If I were a serious racer, this would be my oil of choice. The only reason I no longer use it is the awful, acrid-smelling exhaust it produces. Since I just play-ride with my buddies, they all complained strongly about the smell when they were riding behind me, and my brother-in-law went so far as to tell me he would ban me from riding with him if I didn’t change oils. Another minor negative, mainly just a personal peeve, is that this oil is clear, with no dyes, making it impossible to tell if the fuel you are using has oil mixed in it. Not a serious flaw, but it could be a possible bad thing if you have a two-stroke and a four-stroke gas container without labels, or if you can’t remember if you already put the oil in the gas or not.
Bell Ray H1R: This oil was similar to the Super-M in every way. It left the piston shiney and scuffed-looking, although the top-end wasn't left as dry looking. Deposits were less than with the Super-M, but still heavy enough on the valves to be a problem for riders that run their top-ends for extended periods of time. I could see this oil gumming up the valves enough to cause them to stop functioning. An acceptable but un-exceptional oil.
Yamalube 2R: For a dino-based semi-synthetic oil, this is an exceptional product that performs as well as any full-synthetic out there. The piston and cylinder always look good, with no significant shiny spots or scuffing. The ring grooves, piston crown, and combustion chamber were very clean, with only a light circular carbon pattern on the crown and head. The valves are almost as clean as with MX2T, although not clean enough to not need removing and cleaning. The top and bottom of the engine are always well lubed with plenty of residual oil, even on the powervalves. This is my oil of choice, and I whole-heartedly recommend it to everyone, racer and casual rider alike.
This isn’t exactly a scientifically conducted test, it’s just my opinions and observations about several different oils that I have tried over the last few years, on both my KX250 and my KDX250. All of these results are obtained running a 26:1 ratio, with jetting as close to perfect as I am capable of. Each oil was used through the life of at least one top-end. I only use Wiseco pistons and rings.
Golden Spectro: This oil did a good job of protecting the piston and cylinder. The piston was a little shiny on the intake side, but wear was within specs, and the piston and cylinder otherwise looked OK. There was a good coating of residual oil in both the top and bottom of the engine. It is a dirty-burning oil, however. It leaves a lot of carbon deposits on the piston crown and head, and really gums up the ring grooves and the power valves. And this oil spooges! No matter how sharp you try to jet, the spooge simply can’t be completely eliminated. I wouldn’t run this oil again unless I had no alternative, it’s just too dirty. As a side note that may or may not be related to the oil, this is the only pre-mix that I have ever had an engine failure while using, with the thrust-bearings on the KDX250 crank pin seizing. It was probably just a fluke, and I can’t pin it down to lubrication failure, but it’s always stuck in my head.
Maxima Super-M: This oil didn’t protect the piston as well as I would like to see in my engines. The piston was noticably shiny and scuffed on both the intake and exhaust sides, and the top-end was almost dry upon tear-down, although the bottom-end seemed to be well lubed. The ring grooves were reasonably clean, but the piston crown and head had significant deposits, as well as the powervalves, although not as bad as the Golden Spectro. Another oil that I just can’t recommend, it just doesn’t seem to leave the engine well lubricated or clean. I also felt this oil left an off-color on the plugs, making jetting a little more difficult.
Maxima Castor 927: Very slight scuffing on the intake side of the piston, but over-all everything looked good. The ring grooves had slight deposits, and the piston crown and head had slight build-up that was well within reason. The powervalves were gummy, but not to the point of seizing or failing, again within reason for a non-synthetic oil, and excellent for a castor-based oil. Both the top and bottom-end of the engine were very oily and well-lubed with plenty of residual build-up. And the smell of this oil is wonderfully sweet, better than any other oil I’ve used. I liked using this oil just for the smell! Overall a good oil with no real bad points.
Redline: This was a strange oil. The piston and cylinder looked good, with minor shiny spots but no scuffing, and everything was reasonably clean and well-lubed. But this oil actually left surface rust on the crank wheels, and tarnished the carb brass. It also had a tendency to gum up the carb jets for some reason. How a metal surface can be both oily and have rust on it is beyond me, but clearly this oil lacks any proper corrosion-inhibitors. I would suppose it must have a high polyol-ester concentration, which would have the tendency to attract moisture. I would never use it again, nor could I recommend it.
Mobil 1 MX2T: The piston and cylinder looked great with this oil. No noticable shiny spots or scuffing on the piston at all. The top and bottom of the engine were well lubed with plenty of residual build-up, and even the powervalves were oily and lubed. No other oil that I’ve used compares to the cleanliness of this oil. The piston, head, and powervalves were nearly spotless, the valves didn’t even really need cleaning. If I were a serious racer, this would be my oil of choice. The only reason I no longer use it is the awful, acrid-smelling exhaust it produces. Since I just play-ride with my buddies, they all complained strongly about the smell when they were riding behind me, and my brother-in-law went so far as to tell me he would ban me from riding with him if I didn’t change oils. Another minor negative, mainly just a personal peeve, is that this oil is clear, with no dyes, making it impossible to tell if the fuel you are using has oil mixed in it. Not a serious flaw, but it could be a possible bad thing if you have a two-stroke and a four-stroke gas container without labels, or if you can’t remember if you already put the oil in the gas or not.
Bell Ray H1R: This oil was similar to the Super-M in every way. It left the piston shiney and scuffed-looking, although the top-end wasn't left as dry looking. Deposits were less than with the Super-M, but still heavy enough on the valves to be a problem for riders that run their top-ends for extended periods of time. I could see this oil gumming up the valves enough to cause them to stop functioning. An acceptable but un-exceptional oil.
Yamalube 2R: For a dino-based semi-synthetic oil, this is an exceptional product that performs as well as any full-synthetic out there. The piston and cylinder always look good, with no significant shiny spots or scuffing. The ring grooves, piston crown, and combustion chamber were very clean, with only a light circular carbon pattern on the crown and head. The valves are almost as clean as with MX2T, although not clean enough to not need removing and cleaning. The top and bottom of the engine are always well lubed with plenty of residual oil, even on the powervalves. This is my oil of choice, and I whole-heartedly recommend it to everyone, racer and casual rider alike.
Brad, if you look at a VoA for them you will often find they do not.
I used one popular ester based oil that was so bad it tarnished carb brass and formed sludge in float bowls. I also had a snowmobile ran on a ester based get develop rust on the crank shaft lobes.
OTOH hand I ran mobil mx2t for years with no issues, but it's a carboxylic ester not the di-ester commonly used.
I used one popular ester based oil that was so bad it tarnished carb brass and formed sludge in float bowls. I also had a snowmobile ran on a ester based get develop rust on the crank shaft lobes.
OTOH hand I ran mobil mx2t for years with no issues, but it's a carboxylic ester not the di-ester commonly used.
Its a shame the discontinued mx2t.... but yamalube 2r is a good replacement.
HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
The good news is that if u'r tuning for H1R, going to anything else will make it richer/safer. If somebody who doesn't know how the H1R affects tuning is at the lean edge with stihl oil at 50:1, and throws in H1R at 32:1, they will go way lean
Trx250r180
Saw polisher
Ms 660 i only use for milling ,h1r 32 to 1 ,the way the muffler is here ,everything is nice and oily ,if i choke it down with a stock muffler things are all dry inside without touching the carb ,i will have to see if can get a little mirror to photo the piston top ,as wet as everything is ,it should soften most carbon and be pretty clean i would think .
Bwalker, was that a Redline oil?
