661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[mdavlee]

 

[mdavlee]

 

[Mastermind]

I'm just concerned that several assumptions are being made that have no scientific backup and are possibly wrong. We do not know that a few degrees cooler is better. And, we do not know that the fastest cut time is best. The tech already told us that a thicker oil film will not only protect better, but will also be slower. The trick is to find that balance that suits your needs. Quite frankly, no one here has the knowledge, resources, or ability to test that. While I find this discussion very entertaining, I will still continue to recommend 32:1, no less than 40:1. Please don't let this stop you from testing, I find it interesting. I just caution everyone from jumping to conclusions that very well may not be true.

That has been my concern as well.

Absolutely not a dig at Redbull......

None of us can do any better on the testing.

But........over the years I've been messing with two stroke engines more oil (within reason) has always been the accepted "good idea".

Finding that 32:1 is slower on one M-Tronic saw, in the hands of one user, will not make me change the ratio I use. BUT.......it very well might get a lot of other people to change. That is not a good idea in my opinion.

On my bench, over hundreds and hundreds of saws........I've seen for myself the differences between oil ratios.

At 50:1 the engine is dry and sooty. No residual oil is left in the case, on the crank, bearing, skirts, etc.

At 32:1 the oil is everywhere.

I will continue to be open minded........and I have decided to try Yamalube. But, I will not change ratios.

 

[KenJax Tree]

Brad - I actually would. If there was wood all setup to do it. the ideal stuff would probably be 6x6 lumber banded together. Could be the great AS Oil GTG! heh

I'd rather see the test in real world conditions. Who really cuts 6x6 pine cants banded together.

 

[Husqavarna Guy]

Welp....between chain saws, dirt bike and snowmobile i still own and having had a jet ski, ATV, and another snowmobile, i dug out some oil i have. I have MC-1, H1R, K2, 800, R50, Dominator, Saber, Ipone Samurai, 927, BeNOL, and Lucas.[emoji15]

How do you like the Lucas compared to those oils that are twice the price? I bet it's just as good.

 

[redbull660]

That has been my concern as well.

Absolutely not a dig at Redbull......

None of us can do any better on the testing.

But........over the years I've been messing with two stroke engines more oil (within reason) has always been the accepted "good idea".

Finding that 32:1 is slower on one M-Tronic saw, in the hands of one user, will not make me change the ratio I use. BUT.......it very well might get a lot of other people to change. That is not a good idea in my opinion.

On my bench, over hundreds and hundreds of saws........I've seen for myself the differences between oil ratios.

At 50:1 the engine is dry and sooty. No residual oil is left in the case, on the crank, bearing, skirts, etc.

At 32:1 the oil is everywhere.

I will continue to be open minded........and I have decided to try Yamalube. But, I will not change ratios.

- it would seem to me that one would want a 32:1 ratio with a thinner oil which a lower flash point. I would bet, you'll like the yamalube 2r at 32:1 vs belray at 32:1

- given the viscosity, resistance to burning, and quality of belray, I would think you would need less belray to accomplish the same lube effect.

 

[Mastermind]

- it would seem to me that one would want a 32:1 ratio with a thinner oil which a lower flash point. I would bet, you'll like the yamalube 2r at 32:1 vs belray at 32:1

- given the viscosity, resistance to burning, and quality of belray, I would think you would need less belray to accomplish the same lube effect.

Maybe.

 

[blsnelling]

- it would seem to me that one would want a 32:1 ratio with a thinner oil which a lower flash point. I would bet, you'll like the yamalube 2r at 32:1 vs belray at 32:1

- given the viscosity, resistance to burning, and quality of belray, I would think you would need less belray to accomplish the same lube effect.

From the reading I'm doing, that sounds correct.

 

[KenJax Tree]

if you were doing a test that big with that many different oils. using the 6x6 is probably the best way to keep things equal. Unless someone could secure a redwood that was consistent for about i dunno 100 feet ? lol Well lets see here...


8 different oils testing 3 different ratios each at 2-3 cuts for each ratio. That's uhh 48-72 test cuts! lol

figure 1" per cut so 72" + extra wood to hold on to. I dunno a nice 10' foot section of something ~32" across for the entire 10' feet with out knots. That would be tough.

Understandable, but the results will be meaningless unless you're cutting in a 6x6 cant. Once you walk away from the cant all results go out the window.

 

[redbull660]

Maybe.

If that turns out to be the case. Speculation at this point but ... say you can get the same times, steady temps, and cool temps from say yamalube 2r @ 32:1 and belray h1r @ 40:1.

Then I would think it would come down to a question of, which one of those two combos, protects the internals saw the best.

And I would think that would be your winner.

 

[Trx250r180]

Isn't gas cooler than oil ?

 

[blsnelling]

If that is the case... say you can get the same times, steady temps, and cool temps from say yamalube 2r @ 32:1 and belray h1r @ 40:1.

Then I would think it would come down to a question of, which one of those two combos, protects the internals saw the best. And there is your winner.

That sounds right to me. In that case, I'd default to the ester based synthetic for the higher film strength, higher viscosity, and higher flashpoint.

 

[blsnelling]

It appears to me that high flash point goes with high viscosity. The highest numbers go to R50. Next is Motul 800 Road Racing, then Motul 800 Off Road, then H1-R.

I'm wondering if there would be much difference in the cleanliness of the two Motul oils, with perhaps the Off Road having stronger detergents to keep power valves clean. Does that even matter? I'm thinking Motul 800 2T Road Racing might be my next oil to try.

Edit: I just bought a liter.

 

[sunfish]

Damn, 45 pages! Cool...

 

[Moparmyway]

I'm thinking Motul 800 2T Road Racing might be my next oil to try.

Edit: I just bought a liter.

Motul 800 is good stuff
IMHO, so is R50
So is H1R, except the H1R wont allow fixed jet carbs to run correctly and my 066 needs a bigger jet to run right

 

[bwalker]

That sounds right to me. In that case, I'd default to the ester based synthetic for the higher film strength, higher viscosity, and higher flashpoint.

Brad your assuming that the properties you mentioned indicate an oil is superior. That's not.necessarily so and I will say that there are very few oils meeting the very stringent ISO-EG test that are ester based. The film strength of two stroke Oil hasn't been an issue in years and more film strength isn't necessarily a good thing.
Yamalube 2R for instance is a PIB mineral blend that has an excellant track record over many years in a variety of applications including highly loaded, high.rpm motors like shifter karts, road race bikes and kt-100 air cooled karts.

 

[blsnelling]

I hear you.

 

[Mastermind]

 

[blsnelling]

I'm considering those "near catastrophic" events where only the absolute best oil would protect. Would that not be an ester based oil? I'm not talking everyday use where there are no special demands.

 

[bwalker]

It appears to me that high flash point goes with high viscosity. The highest numbers go to R50. Next is Motul 800 Road Racing, then Motul 800 Off Road, then H1-R.

I'm wondering if there would be much difference in the cleanliness of the two Motul oils, with perhaps the Off Road having stronger detergents to keep power valves clean. Does that even matter? I'm thinking Motul 800 2T Road Racing might be my next oil to try.

Edit: I just bought a liter.

IIRC the two 800's are nearly if not identical.
Chosing an oil based on flash point is really flawed. Flash point only measures the min temp that the lowest boiling point component ignites. Oils that are blended have components that have flash points much higher than that of the blend. Make sense?