661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[Stihlman441]

I'm feeling a little bloated.

Pass the Midol.

I have using the Mobil 1 T2 for years and have never had an issue but it's getting harder to find and more and more expensive.
I think my next oil will be the Jakmax fully synthetic ( I think it's the same thing Woodland and Baiyles full synthetic ) it's half the price Matt MCW has been using it forever and has no complains.

 

[bwalker]

It really wasn't buildup, and is completely normal.

Yes, it looked pretty good.

 

[bwalker]

I've heard of rust forming using Dominator because it doesn't have rust protection. The ester based oils at least list it on the bottle whether its in there or not IDK.

I have not heard that nor saw it. Although it's not surprising if true given its a ester oil IIRC..

 

[STIHLTHEDEERE]

This Yamalube has me intrigued[emoji52]

just dont get it mixed up with your supply of....................RAMALUBE

 

[Moparmyway]

well screw this - i'm gonna run a test...as soon as I can.

ported 661 vs my muff modded 661. 36" .404 new RS chains.

we'll do 32:1 42:1 and 50:1. H1R.

3-4 cuts, temp reading after ea cut. Timed.

Combo of steadiest & coolest temps & best times, wins! Should be interesting to see what works best in a ported saw vs stock saw.

Hows about throwing up some pics of both muffler exits ?

IIRC, a member here had to make about 20 cuts for a different tank of fuel to get comfy on an autotune saw. I agree that humidity/elevation/fuel quality/temperature/gravitational pull from the moon/solar flares/etc ..... all play a role in autotune saws responses, and that if they didn't respond rather quickly that we would be seeing more failures when those variables changed ............. but I tend to put a large amount of trust in what mdavlee says, and a few pages back he was very clear, besides - what would it hurt to do the reset when switching the different mixes ?

May I also be upfront and suggest a way of trying to eliminate the movement of whatever it is that you are cutting ?
That one cut that I referenced a few pages back had the 661 4 stroking for nearly 75% of the cut, which couldn't have been a good thing when timing cuts.

I don't care what anyone else posts, I like watching your videos, and enjoy reading your tests and their results. I also compare how my 661 runs with a 36" .404 to yours .......... and enjoy that too !! I cant help but make one last suggestion .............. make your muffler openings a little larger. That seems to be one of the 2 major differences between your 661 and mine, the other being fuel (I run VP SEF). These 90cc saws like to breathe from one large opening (in my opinion) and Stihl got the location of that opening in the right spot !

 

[bwalker]

How do you know lowest temp is best? If the oil combusts better, wouldn't that create more heat? Doesn't heat = energy? I'm just playing devil's advocate and throwing these out there off the top of my head. We don't even know if what we're testing for here really means what we think it does. Bigger, higher, lower, etc isn't always better.

Correlating cylinder temp with piston temp might be problematic. And it's piston temp that is the limiting factor in a two stroke.

 

[bwalker]

http://www.klemmvintage.com/oils.htm

 

[redbull660]

Hows about throwing up some pics of both muffler exits ?

IIRC, a member here had to make about 20 cuts for a different tank of fuel to get comfy on an autotune saw. I agree that humidity/elevation/fuel quality/temperature/gravitational pull from the moon/solar flares/etc ..... all play a role in autotune saws responses, and that if they didn't respond rather quickly that we would be seeing more failures when those variables changed ............. but I tend to put a large amount of trust in what mdavlee says, and a few pages back he was very clear, besides - what would it hurt to do the reset when switching the different mixes ?

May I also be upfront and suggest a way of trying to eliminate the movement of whatever it is that you are cutting ?
That one cut that I referenced a few pages back had the 661 4 stroking for nearly 75% of the cut, which couldn't have been a good thing when timing cuts.

I don't care what anyone else posts, I like watching your videos, and enjoy reading your tests and their results. I also compare how my 661 runs with a 36" .404 to yours .......... and enjoy that too !! I cant help but make one last suggestion .............. make your muffler openings a little larger. That seems to be one of the 2 major differences between your 661 and mine, the other being fuel (I run VP SEF). These 90cc saws like to breathe from one large opening (in my opinion) and Stihl got the location of that opening in the right spot !

661 reset - I'll look into it. If it's not a big deal i'll do it.

movement - that was on one log on one cut in the 404 v 3/8. The logs in the oil test obviously didn't move.

muff opening - Yeah where the exit port is on the 661 and 660 muffler for that matter are clearly the shortest route.

And what do those numbers tell you?

bwalker - I've already answered this and If I answer it again your just going to try and pick at my reasons. You seem to have all the answers. So instead of being a basher & critic, please enlighten us all. Opinion's are like azzholes. Everyone has one. So if your so smart and know so much, give us the answers and back it up! Why why why with solid data and reasons. I mean you've obviously have the time to spend posting on this thread nearly 150 times, so don't tell us it'll take to long or you don't have the time.

 

[Moparmyway]

661 reset - I'll look into it. If it's not a big deal i'll do it.

Reset is easy;
1- Start on full choke and run for 90 seconds, move lever immediately to off
2- Start on fast idle and run for 90 seconds, move lever immediately to off
3- Start saw and make 5 uniform cuts - done

movement - that was on one log on one cut in the 404 v 3/8. The logs in the oil test obviously didn't move.

My bad; my old age and your multiple in depth (and great) threads have confused me again

muff opening - Yeah where the exit port is on the 661 and 660 muffler for that matter are clearly the shortest route.

....... Uumm; I believe it is actually the longest (the way the exhaust gasses move). Those gasses are coming out at a very fast speed and probably smack directely into the front cover first. At full throttle, I doubt they are able to come out of the exhaust port and make a 90 degree turn to get out of the muffler ............ instead they leave the exhaust port, smack the front cover (look at where the discoloration is) and run around the outside edges of the muffler can until they are shoved out the opening (on a single opening muffler with the opening in the stock location). I have found that 1 larger single opening in the stock location makes a more powerfull saw than a dual or triple ported muffler (just my opinion, and I would be willing to lend you my muffler (661 or 066/660) to have you test this theory - my own testing brought me to this dumb conclusion)

 

[Flatie]

Dominator actually isn't too bad and I detest the Amsoil conpany.. I like 2R and have used it alot. I would try K2 as others I trust like it. NOT SURE ON baileys or silkolene. Would not run r50, h1r or 800.

Please more of a break down, this IS the time to be long winded. You have a very strong opinion on this topic, and I believe a lot of people would like to hear why and how you've made your decisions.

 

[blsnelling]

I'm just concerned that several assumptions are being made that have no scientific backup and are possibly wrong. We do not know that a few degrees cooler is better. And, we do not know that the fastest cut time is best. The tech already told us that a thicker oil film will not only protect better, but will also be slower. The trick is to find that balance that suits your needs. Quite frankly, no one here has the knowledge, resources, or ability to test that. While I find this discussion very entertaining, I will still continue to recommend 32:1, no less than 40:1. Please don't let this stop you from testing, I find it interesting. I just caution everyone from jumping to conclusions that very well may not be true.

 

[bwalker]

Please more of a break down, this IS the time to be long winded. You have a very strong opinion on this topic, and I believe a lot of people would like to hear why and how you've made your decisions.

I will when I have the time.

 

[bwalker]

Brad, they do not staff tech lines with engineers or perro chemists. I believe his comment in regards to more oil causing more resistance is false for several reasons. One of which is that fact that the piston to cylinder clearance only allows so much oil into the area between the piston and cylinder. What running more oil does is give you reserve to replenish this oil when it is suddenly depleted. If you do a Google search there is a article on the net done by Maxima that discusses oil migration times for a two cycle. This is a good read and applicable here.

 

[redbull660]

Reset is easy;
1- Start on full choke and run for 90 seconds, move lever immediately to off
2- Start on fast idle and run for 90 seconds, move lever immediately to off
3- Start saw and make 5 uniform cuts - done
My bad; my old age and your multiple in depth (and great) threads have confused me again

....... Uumm; I believe it is actually the longest (the way the exhaust gasses move). Those gasses are coming out at a very fast speed and probably smack directely into the front cover first. At full throttle, I doubt they are able to come out of the exhaust port and make a 90 degree turn to get out of the muffler ............ instead they leave the exhaust port, smack the front cover (look at where the discoloration is) and run around the outside edges of the muffler can until they are shoved out the opening (on a single opening muffler with the opening in the stock location). I have found that 1 larger single opening in the stock location makes a more powerfull saw than a dual or triple ported muffler (just my opinion, and I would be willing to lend you my muffler (661 or 066/660) to have you test this theory - my own testing brought me to this dumb conclusion)

reset - heard a few different ways. I'll ck with a buddy of mine to confirm. he's an elite stihl dealer so i'll give him the final word. But that seems easy enough. I'd probably do more than 5 cuts though like I did in the oil test I already did...just to be sure, before changing to a new chain and doing the test cut.

muff - I guess I meant relative to the opposite side of the muffler...ie if there was a hole/exit port over there. You may well be right and I may take you up on that offer. I have several combos I'd like to try...even made a DP cover lol hole is 5/8ths. See attached files

I'm just concerned that several assumptions are being made that have no scientific backup and are possibly wrong. We do not know that a few degrees cooler is better. And, we do not know that the fastest cut time is best. The tech already told us that a thicker oil film will not only protect better, but will also be slower. The trick is to find that balance that suits your needs. Quite frankly, no one here has the knowledge, resources, or ability to test that. While I find this discussion very entertaining, I will still continue to recommend 32:1, no less than 40:1. Please don't let this stop you from testing, I find it interesting. I just caution everyone from jumping to conclusions that very well may not be true.

well based on that logic. The best combo would clearly be somewhere between 42:1 and 50:1. Both of those are cool, steady, and fast. 32:1 is more erratic, hotter, and way the hell slower. Which is why i'm doing this again cuz I want more readings. And I want to know what a ported saw does. And I admit I'm a little curious to eliminate any possible doubt I'd have with the reset...that is correct redbull doesn't care if he's wrong.

I don't want to hear about scientific. Somewhere earlier in this thread you guys were all about coolest being the best and coolest would mean less friction and wear and faster times on and on and on, and that 32:1 would produce exactly that! Well it didn't. Now it's all like we don't know what's best blah blah blah.

Bottom line - I'm going to do the test, post the results and you guys can do what you want.

 

[Flatie]

I will when I have the time.

Thanks. Please if you could before this thread ends, would be much appreciated.

 

[KenJax Tree]

In the end what is all this gonna mean?

 

[redbull660]

gonna find the best mix ratios for Belray H1R, that produce the best combination of steadiest temps, jug temp, and time/speed. From...

muff modded 661
muff modded 660
&
ported 661

I'd test another oil against belray after this. But no one has given me any good reason why. I'm not making up a bunch of .404 chains (ie. spending the money to procure them, time to make them), spending the time to prep the wood, time to find the big goonies/ wood, time to do all the anal-ness of doing the test so it's consistent/apples to apples, time to edit the vids. Just because some dude has posted on this thread 150 times in the last couple of days criticizing anyone's opinion which doesn't agree with his own. ..who offers no evidence at all...let alone any solid evidence or even solid logic....who really adds no constructiveness to his thread at all.

Yes I'm assuming the prime candidate for testing would be yamalube 2r.

 

[blsnelling]

1. Belray H1-R
2. Motul 800 2T
3. Amsoil Dominator
4. Klotz R50
5. Maxima K2
6. Silkolene Pro 2
7. Yamalube 2R
8. Bailey's Full Synthetic

Here, test these

Speaking of which, is there a list of the flash points and viscosities of most of these oils compiled anywhere?

 

[mdavlee]

 

[KenJax Tree]

Test the $30 a gallon Lucas i use and see if these other oils are really worth 2x the money.