Aftermarket Cylinder... good and bad... the Truth!

[DSS]

Easy gal... Don't be breaking out of your stanchions. Are we going to have to put the kickers on you this morning?

Haven't had muh coffee yet :msp_sad:

 

[watsonr]

WOW,
I get on a plane for a few hours and the place goes to hell! Nice to see all the comments, some good, some not so good and then some... whatever. Lets get started!

Posted this because I'm tired of being ****** around. Started this business because customer service is lost, being friendly and saying thank you is seldom heard and repeat customers are darn hard to come by and I'm not one unless you earn it! My local shop is suffering, he's buying aftermarket kits from me. Most can't afford an OEM kit and labor to the tune of $400... that customer walks out and never comes back.... until now. He gave an alternative and gained a potential long term customer.

I plan to earn your business if you'll allow me the chance. Thought long and hard about this and since I'm pretty good with numbers, its a numbers game for me. I figure that I can sell enough kits at a reasonable price, offer a gasket set and bearing with a warranty against failure. Not just against defects, not 30 days like other suppliers.. yes Brad I looked, seems its 30 days and nothing about failure. No gasket set or bearings included and I ship same day or next business day!

What really pisses a bunch of you off is that I regularly post here it seems. Most sponsors that sell parts don't, guess that makes me special! You see, I like a guy who is willing to open his mouth, say what he thinks and his word means what it's supposed to mean. I guess I could write it down, but still comes back to my word, at least is does for me anyway.

I have hedged my bet with the kits the best I can. Most of you are here for a reason, to fix a saw and get sound advise. Most can install a kit, pretty simple really, I provide a gasket set (helps remove air leaks) and they will use it because its there and a set of seals are in most of them, not all but most. The bearing is a give-me and will go into the saw as well and a good set of rings goes in also. Your going to take extra care because your repairing it, it failed the first time and you don't want to do it anytime soon.... maybe you struggled with the repair and lots of good guys gave advise. Most of these repaired saws will run for hundreds of hours without any issue, some will not... but the numbers indicate that failures will be few.

If the OEM jugs and pistons never failed, guess nobody would be selling aftermarket kits... that would be a factual statement. Run an OEM kit past the warranty and see what your dealer says when you take it in because it failed earlier than 4000 hours. Most won't run a saw a 100 hours in a year and then there are wack'Os who bring multiple saw because we don't want to add fuel:msp_smile:

If my word was no good, everybody would know in minutes. Look at some of the crap posted here already and it's not 24 hours old.

Now, If I was a smart man, I'd take my saw to a saw builder that uses these aftermarket kits and ask him to provide a kit and port it for me..... then sell that OEM stuff to someone that REALLY LIKES them for big bucks! It would reduce the port job and cylinder kit cost to pretty close to $100 maybe? These numbers for a port job are not exact, I've never bought one YET, but heard they are $250? Even if if that number is wrong, it still saves me a bunch of money by buying on for modification and selling the OEM one.

Then comes the good part.... The kit goes south. It gets replaced at no cost and whatever deal the builder decides for labor... or you put the kit on yourself in the first place. Does anybody know of anybody who bought an OEM kit and blew it up for whatever reason get a replacement after the original warrenty for any failure? Or WARRANTY for 90 days against failure.. even another site sponsor?

Most cover defects and within 30 days of delivery... that's it...... defects. Take that saw in to the dealer, most will do anything to prove it was your fault in order to charge you unless it was actually his fault on a repair. Stihl pays for the part and only the part, dealer kicks in the labor I'm pretty sure. I cannot warranty your entire saw (any sponsor here warranty a saw because it spit a clip and hurt the lower end?) as I really don't know just how well you put it together, I can assume you did everything correctly until I see the failed part and why I asked for it back. How many times have we seen someone come back with a broken crank because it spit the clip or something of that nature. It does happen, numbers show it rarely happens. If a builder does his job, failures are even lower and they always kick in the labor... because he built it and gave his word "it's right".... as we expect.

Is that a ridge on the edge of the CC? It appears that part of the squish band was machined, but didn't go all the way into the CC.

Brad, I think it's the light, look at pictures #4 and #5 in the first page. If it was the ridge, the light wouldn't busted it up, it would have been visible.

Randy, I wasnt trying to bust your balls, just putting it out there so you can be clear about it. Lets just say I'm still sore about dealing with those "other" folks.

Thanks, seems some are going out of there way, maybe a test of some sort? I spent 25 years on a submarine, NOTHING you say is going to shake me.

Nothing like an AM cylinder thread to get the #### slinging...

We can be sociable here, good conversation, nothing personal. Ops, I see some ugly pictures and that you guys got them under control.

I asked a question, and Randy didn't have an answer yet.

Yes Sir, I will get you that answer when I get back to Virginia... do not let me forget!

To the OP - do you anticipate getting any kits for the Stihl TS400 or the TS410/420 saws? I buy probably 4-5 a year.

Yes, TS-400 for sure, other I need to see if they're available.

sure would be nice if a guy could just start a thread here, and a good thread at that, and not be trashed for it. the fella is offering a 90 day free warranty, how much better does it get? i would think after 90 days you should know if it will work or not? truth be told, most of the guys that are talking all the smack, probably would not run a saw enough to wear any top-end out, either OEM or aftermarket.

I agree and reasons why I offer a warranty!

woah! what a whopper of a thread.

so i must thank randy and randy for pushing these kits into mainstream levels of quality and customer care. i have no qualms if i need a kit from either...just wish i had a big saw i needed one for. hopefully the influx of these quality kits puts a sales hurting on some manufacturers to force thier hand to lower there prices or not sell any. again you guys are making a difference and keeping some saws alive instead of the scrap bin....no matter how you slice it a saw saved is a saw saved. OEM or A/M cyl kit a running saw is better than a scrap or parts saw

And the real reason has arrived. We will eventually replace OEM with some form. Mahle may have been the worst cylinder ever, that is until someone spoke up!

people will plant their feet firmly on the OEM side of the argument regardless of what facts are available.

I hope they buy my OEM stuff on eBay for good prices and I'm not ending my auction early so I get every last penny from it!

Do what you want but don't try to tell everyone else their way is wrong.

Thank you..... a different approach then most are taking.... exactly why I'm doing it! It's 5:35 east coast time, I'm on the west coast and it's been a very long day. Those of you that sent me PM's, I'll get to them a little later today, I'm tired now.

It's numbers! Some sell the kits cheaper I'll admit, they don't include the gasket set, bearing, Caber rings on kits that have split ductile crap, answer posts at 5:35am after a long day and longer plane ride, fill your order at 10:00pm because I'm here chatting it up and most don't ship within 1 day....

Money is TIGHT, I'm trying to save you some!

 

[sachsmo]

Keep us posted on new stuff eh?

I checked your site and you seem to have the big two covered.


Next time you update, could you include more specs i.e. pin diameter etc.?

 

[thomas1]

Yeah.....he must be dead.....

Good things come, to those who wait. :msp_wink:

 

[DSS]

I have no agenda.

 

[sachsmo]

I have no agenda.

Not now,

wait until this evening!

 

[tbone75]

Not now,

wait until this evening!

Got milk ?

 

[J_Arena]

All of these "aftermarket threads" are just like soap operas!!! This will be the last one that I tune into!

[video=youtube;98T3PVaRrHU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98T3PVaRrHU[/video]

 

[DSS]

Got milk ?

Stand still a minute John.

 

[sachsmo]

All of these "aftermarket threads" are just like soap operas!!! This will be the last one that I tune into!

[video=youtube;98T3PVaRrHU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98T3PVaRrHU[/video]

 

[CATDIESEL]

Saw parts aside, my point was it was entirely against normal decorum to post the "injured" pictures, period. You disagree? If so, fine. I'll consider you in the same light I consider the other, negatively. Happy? I'm not emotional either, I just have enough time to wait until they list them at those prices, which they regularly do for "pro" level saws, at least Stihls. See the links I posted? I can get then for 260, 360's 440 etc......

i think everybody here well gets your point. you are in fact in love with Snelling, for whatever reason. and, you are not real sure what your talking about when it comes to what works and what doesn't when it comes to P/C combos. thank you, and have a nice day

 

[spacemule]

i've been a saw dealer for over 30 years and never use am parts.


i have yet to see a am cylinder last more then 500 hours

Well, since you "never" use them, it stands to reason you'll never see one last 500 hours.

 

[(scarescore)]

I have a hyway 50mm piston and cylinder on a 365 husky
I'm no expert just bolted it straight on and hope for the best all that was before I joined here
I didn't buy it from Watsonr but wish him the best with his business if more suppliers were like him there wouldn't be as many angry customers around
my hyway cylinder is Nikasil coated with a Teflon cylinder so not sure if it's the same as Watsonr

now since joining here I've learned what squish is and its .034 and the compression is 145psi
I also used a hyway cylinder gasket and compression was tested with about four or five tanks of gas through the saw. my compression tester is a cheapand a very cheerful bit of kit so unsure how accurate it actually is

 

[tree monkey]

Well, since you "never" use them, it stands to reason you'll never see one last 500 hours.

like i said 30 plus years in the biz, don't you think i have tryed this stuf on my own saws?
and i know a few guys that tryed them as well

cheap am parts are cheap for a reason
high performance am parts cost by far more then oem and for a reason

 

[ZeroJunk]

like i said 30 plus years in the biz, don't you think i have tryed this stuf on my own saws?
and i know a few guys that tryed them as well

cheap am parts are cheap for a reason
high performance am parts cost by far more then oem and for a reason

I'm curious how they fail after 500 hours. Do they snag a ring, lose a clip, or do they actually wear the plating off. One would think that if they would make it 500 hours they would go on for a while.

 

[LowVolt]

i think everybody here well gets your point. you are in fact in love with Snelling, for whatever reason. and, you are not real sure what your talking about when it comes to what works and what doesn't when it comes to P/C combos. thank you, and have a nice day

Do me a favor and don't speak for everybody, you are making everybody here look like an ass.

 

[Walt41]

Everybody needs to stop with this "I knew a guy...mothers uncles cousin" approach and give this guy a chance, I personally do almost all my business with people I know on their "word" unless they give me a reason not to...my point is we should not bash anything until there is an actual problem with something that he sold and did not make good on, until then keep the HaHa's and tree fell on my head pictures on hold.

 

[Mastermind]

I tend to agree with what Scott has said here, in the past the plating in AM cylinders has been thin and not of a high quality. He has more experience with saw engines than 90% of us here in this forum. I have sat and talked with Scott and have a huge amount of respect for him. We would all do well to listen to his input.

What I hope we will see though is that the plating in the latest versions of these kits is much better than the past efforts. I've had a hell of a time cutting the plating in the Meteor kits......they do indeed seem very tough. Time will tell the tale.

What we need to do here is discuss these things in detail with egos and opinions in check. If you've not used these kits and just want to voice your thoughts........don't. We have nothing to gain from the opinions of those that have not used these kits. If you would like to try one send Randy W an email and I would bet he's going to be willing to give you the best deal possible on one.

The end user is the one who stands to win if these kits are indeed an affordable and durable alternative to OEM. I will be using these kits on my own rebuilds and have a few in the hands of guys that will run the wheels off of them in a logging environment. Over a year ago I gave a 044/046 hybrid with a Meteor top end to a friend that logs and it's still out there killing trees. I've got a 372 kit in the hands of a member that's running it and is planning to report on it's durability. I also just rebuilt and heavily ported a 044/046 hybrid using a Meteor kit for no charge so we could get one in the hands of a member on the west coast. These guys are going to provide us with real feedback.

 

[spacemule]

like i said 30 plus years in the biz, don't you think i have tryed this stuf on my own saws?
and i know a few guys that tryed them as well

cheap am parts are cheap for a reason
high performance am parts cost by far more then oem and for a reason

First you said you never use them. Now you say you've tried them. Which is it? If you do not use am stuff or use very little of it, saying you've not seen one make it to 500 hours is meaningless. Furthermore, if you're a saw mechanic, where do you find time to put 500 hours on saws to try these kits out?

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Do me a favor and don't speak for everybody, you are making everybody here look like an ass.

After reading this whole mess, I'd say the typical loudmouths are doing a pretty good job of making themselves look like ***** without needing much help from anyone else..., as usual.

But who can resist yet another rousing rendition of Kumbaya by AS's finest?

I couldn't.

Silly me.