beating a dead horse 441 vs ????

[manual]

And I doubt a one of them is stock!

So they may be woods ported. Doesn't mean the design has changed.
same bearings. crank, and piston.

Some people think a woods ported saw don't last as long, Some people do.
I say the 575 is as well built as the 372.

Ya see Stihl took the 440 away so you have to buy the 441.
I undersand that some will dispuit that and say it's because of the epa and credits. But I don't think thats not the whole story.
I think Stihl just wants there Customers to get over the 440 and get on with the 441.

The Husky guys still have a choice and as long as the 372 can be bought over the 575. The 372 will be.
Husky upgraded the bearing problem, And there realy is no problem with the 575. But..........

 

[2000ssm6]

Ya see Stihl took the 440 away so you have to buy the 441.
I undersand that some will dispuit that and say it's because of the epa and credits. But I don't think thats not the whole story.
I think Stihl just wants there Customers to get over the 440 and get on with the 441.

..........

Now that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You think the only reason the 441 was introduced was to get their customers away from the 440? WTF? Why would they take away such a solid preformer that has been that way for years?

If the 441 takes on the "rep" that the 440 had then Stihl has done well with a cleaner saw. Now give us the whole story manny....

 

[joatmon]

Wow, that was a short class. Let's review what I got out of it.

1. Last year, Stihl was screwing around with something to replace the 440, and just couldn't meet expectation's.

2. This year, they quit selling 440's so they wouldn't have to explaine why the 441 was not at least equal to them.

Is this what you were "attempting to splain" to me?
No kidding, I was honestly hoping there was some sort of trick to tuning this "new technologh" that would bring it to life at higher elevations.

Andy

Andy,

First off, I'm not addressing your original question. And for that, I apologize. I don't really know the answer to "bringing it (441) to life at higher elevations". Sorry.

Now, I'll elaborate on what I was trying to say in my post. I was attempting to answer the question "Why all the recent euphoria concerning the 441".

I'm not convinced its "performance" based.

Go back 6 months and read the posts. You'll find that most of the Stihl heads were saying that the 440 was the saw. Light, nimble and powerful. At that time, the 441 was said to be heavy, as heavy as the 460 with less power. People grumbled about the 441 being more "Husky like" in the anti-vib system and the air filtration. The bottom line at this point, get the 440s while you can because it's a classic and the new "Husky like", EPA influenced 441 was not going to fill the shoes of the 440. Oh, and the Stihl dealers had shelves full of 440s, and some had 441s, but not in any quantity.

Fast forward to recent times. You'll find that most of the Stihl heads are now saying that the 441 is the saw. Cuts are "laser like", and the few extra ounces are offset by the increased power. In fact, many claim that the 441 cuts as fast as the 460. The anti-vib system now makes for a smoother cut and now, it's not "Husky like" at all. Fuel efficiency now is extolled and the better filtration system is suddenly most important. The Stihl heads did coronate the 441 as the new champion. Oh, and the Stihl dealers now have shelves full of 441s, and few, if any 440s are to be found.

Now, Tommie, my friend, can come on here and give you a cup of the Stihl Kool-Aid (AKA tepid Folgers) and tell you that Stihl is in business to help their fellow man (logger), but they're in business to move product. Yep, the product that's sitting on the shelf. As I mentioned before, listen to "Money for Nothing" by Dire Straits:

Now look at them yo - yo's that's the way you do it,
You play the guitar on the MTV,
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Money for nothin' and chicks for free,
Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Lemme tell ya them guys ain't dumb,
Maybe get a blister on your little finger,
Maybe get a blister on your thumb.

We gotta install microwave ovens,
Custom kitchen deliveries,
We gotta move these refrigerators,
We gotta move these colour TV's,

See the little ****** with the earring and the makeup,
Yeah buddy that's his own hair,
That little ****** got his own jet airplane,
That little ****** he's a millionaire.

We gotta install microwave ovens,
Custom kitchens deliveries,
We gotta move these refrigerators,
We gotta move these colour TV's.

I shoulda learned to play the guitar,
I shoulda learned to play them drums,
Look at that mama, she got it stickin' in the camera,
Man we could have some fun,
And he's up there, what's that? Hawaiian noises?
Bangin' on the bongoes like a chimpanzee,
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Get your money for nothin' get your chicks for free.

We gotta install microwave ovens,
Custom kitchen deliveries,
We gotta move these refrigerators,
We gotta move these colour TV's, L0rd.

Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
You play the guitar on the MTV,
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Money for nothin' and your chicks for free,
Money for nothin' and chicks for free.

So, time to wrap this up. Every good thing said about the 441 may be true. But consider the change in reputation of the 440 vs. the 441 in the last six months. I find it quite remarkable. Why the about face?

Warm regards,

Joat

PS:

1. No saws were harmed in preparing this post.
2. "Double R" was not consulted.
3. Manny has not contributed to this post.
4. Stihl sent my another $20 check for my Stihl dealer in the event I want to purchase another Stihl product, but this in no way influenced my post.
5. My FS80 hasn't been running right but it in no way influenced my post.
6. I don't watch MTV.
7. I have listened to Dire Straits.
8. The quoted line, "Bangin' on the bongoes like a chimpanzee" is not a reference to any Stihl dealer or user, living or dead. It is merely coincidental.
9. Tommie doesn't reply when I'm less than gratious to Stihl dealers, but I'm counting on his friendship to be stronger than the force of this post.

 

[bcorradi]

Ask the Hensels how there 575's are doing. They will tell you they run GREAT.
Thats good enough for me. Beings they use them Daily.

I assume you meant Helsels.

 

[peter399]

Great post Joatmon!

It gets really old listening to members with a financial interest in Stihl promoting Stihl. Thanks for calling BS BS.

 

[kurtty]

Funny you should talk about running saws at WOT.

Now I will probaly get some Booooo's out of the stihl Heads, But I know a carver that like using Huskys because they run cooler and seem to last longer for carving.
Has your buddy used huskys before for log cabins ?

my husky's built my loghome adn they worked great but at the time we never had anything to compair them to. but i dont remember them ever getting overly hot. my roomate works for a guy who builds homes and they only have stihl's at work. but when ever i have a log on my house that hangs out too much or i need a gap above a door cut i get my room mate to do it because he has a lot more esperience with being able to make straight riping cuts with a chainsaw above his head n such (lots of semi-dangerouse cuts need to be made in building loghomes). but anyways he always says how much he like the feel of hte husky's. but he han't actually carved any knotches or lateral groves with the husky's. just finishing log work is all he has done with them (like lowering posts due to shrinkage, floor grooves ect). so i dont think he is entierly decided on it yet, atleast not untill he gets to try a 372xp. (my saws are 371xp and a 365special with a 76cc bailies BB kit)

 

[bcorradi]

Great post Joatmon!

It gets really old listening to members with a financial interest in Stihl promoting Stihl. Thanks for calling BS BS.

Who are those members with a financial interest in stihl? What are you classifying as being financial interest? They are actually profitting from this site or they like to push their own product name? Yes there are some people on here that have some affiliation with stihl, but I don't think any of them are getting any direct financial compensation. What do you expect? For them to be on here promoting huskies? Do the members on here that are affiliated with husky, jonsered, or dolmar push competitor's products? Instead of trying to dissect comments from so called "stihl affiliates" just filter the information yourself and come up with your own conclusions. Isn't that part of everyday life?

Aren't there parallel examples of this 441 saga with other brands? Do you think everyone will be still saying the husky 346 is the best saw after the new 346 is on the shelf? Isn't it probably true that the 575 hasn't been as widely accepted to husky users as the 441 has been for stihl users? That is probably the reason why 372's keep reincarnating.

 

[THALL10326]

Andy,

First off, I'm not addressing your original question. And for that, I apologize. I don't really know the answer to "bringing it (441) to life at higher elevations". Sorry.

Now, I'll elaborate on what I was trying to say in my post. I was attempting to answer the question "Why all the recent euphoria concerning the 441".

I'm not convinced its "performance" based.

Go back 6 months and read the posts. You'll find that most of the Stihl heads were saying that the 440 was the saw. Light, nimble and powerful. At that time, the 441 was said to be heavy, as heavy as the 460 with less power. People grumbled about the 441 being more "Husky like" in the anti-vib system and the air filtration. The bottom line at this point, get the 440s while you can because it's a classic and the new "Husky like", EPA influenced 441 was not going to fill the shoes of the 440. Oh, and the Stihl dealers had shelves full of 440s, and some had 441s, but not in any quantity.

Fast forward to recent times. You'll find that most of the Stihl heads are now saying that the 441 is the saw. Cuts are "laser like", and the few extra ounces are offset by the increased power. In fact, many claim that the 441 cuts as fast as the 460. The anti-vib system now makes for a smoother cut and now, it's not "Husky like" at all. Fuel efficiency now is extolled and the better filtration system is suddenly most important. The Stihl heads did coronate the 441 as the new champion. Oh, and the Stihl dealers now have shelves full of 441s, and few, if any 440s are to be found.

Now, Tommie, my friend, can come on here and give you a cup of the Stihl Kool-Aid (AKA tepid Folgers) and tell you that Stihl is in business to help their fellow man (logger), but they're in business to move product. Yep, the product that's sitting on the shelf. As I mentioned before, listen to "Money for Nothing" by Dire Straits:

Now look at them yo - yo's that's the way you do it,
You play the guitar on the MTV,
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Money for nothin' and chicks for free,
Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Lemme tell ya them guys ain't dumb,
Maybe get a blister on your little finger,
Maybe get a blister on your thumb.

We gotta install microwave ovens,
Custom kitchen deliveries,
We gotta move these refrigerators,
We gotta move these colour TV's,

See the little ****** with the earring and the makeup,
Yeah buddy that's his own hair,
That little ****** got his own jet airplane,
That little ****** he's a millionaire.

We gotta install microwave ovens,
Custom kitchens deliveries,
We gotta move these refrigerators,
We gotta move these colour TV's.

I shoulda learned to play the guitar,
I shoulda learned to play them drums,
Look at that mama, she got it stickin' in the camera,
Man we could have some fun,
And he's up there, what's that? Hawaiian noises?
Bangin' on the bongoes like a chimpanzee,
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Get your money for nothin' get your chicks for free.

We gotta install microwave ovens,
Custom kitchen deliveries,
We gotta move these refrigerators,
We gotta move these colour TV's, L0rd.

Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
You play the guitar on the MTV,
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Money for nothin' and your chicks for free,
Money for nothin' and chicks for free.

So, time to wrap this up. Every good thing said about the 441 may be true. But consider the change in reputation of the 440 vs. the 441 in the last six months. I find it quite remarkable. Why the about face?

Warm regards,

Joat

PS:

1. No saws were harmed in preparing this post.
2. "Double R" was not consulted.
3. Manny has not contributed to this post.
4. Stihl sent my another $20 check for my Stihl dealer in the event I want to purchase another Stihl product, but this in no way influenced my post.
5. My FS80 hasn't been running right but it in no way influenced my post.
6. I don't watch MTV.
7. I have listened to Dire Straits.
8. The quoted line, "Bangin' on the bongoes like a chimpanzee" is not a reference to any Stihl dealer or user, living or dead. It is merely coincidental.
9. Tommie doesn't reply when I'm less than gratious to Stihl dealers, but I'm counting on his friendship to be stronger than the force of this post.

Awwwwwwwwwww now now. First off lets clear the slate clean and gets to the point. The 441 did indeed replace the 440. The 440 is gone as Stihl said it would be. Now that other outfit built a 575 to replace the 372 but somehow the 372 seems to have 9 lives. First its gone and then it back and then its gone and back again. Marketing ploy at its best, dishonest as well. To keep it coming back they had to buy another company, Redmax, to get the EPA credits they needed to keep the 372 alive and well. Now who is on their heels, Stihl built a winner, Husky had to buy another company to keep the same saw in the line up they have been putting out for years. Does not take a genuis to see who is on the ball and who is lagging.

Now back to the 440. The 440 was indeed a great saw. The saw that replaced it is pretty good as well and Stihl kept its word the 440 was leaving. Oddly the 575 seems such a flop all the Husky fellers want to compare the old 372 with the new 441 instead of their 575, why is that?

Now Joat you have stirred the President and I'm sorry to say its you who is drinking Husky Kool-Aid dear chap, thats why I'm the Pres and your the speech writer,LOLOLOL

 

[PA Plumber]

Wow! Good posts from both soapboxes - oops, I meant platforms.

I'll tell ya, it was between a 441 and 372 for me. Better dealer support for the Stihl and exactly the same price.

I don't run my saw wot all the time. Sometimes I have to take bathroom breaks and sometimes the saw runs out of fuel; stuff like that. But... So far I am happy with the 441. Would I have tried the 372 if the dealer support was better than the Stihl? You bet.

Funny thing about that dealer support issue; So far haven't needed any.

 

[THALL10326]

Great post Joatmon!

It gets really old listening to members with a financial interest in Stihl promoting Stihl. Thanks for calling BS BS.

Dan for a man hollering its get old you sure seem to keep your nose glued right to it, you should take up reading Mary Poppins or something more on your level,LOL

 

[THALL10326]

Wow! Good posts from both soapboxes - oops, I meant platforms.

I'll tell ya, it was between a 441 and 372 for me. Better dealer support for the Stihl and exactly the same price.

I don't run my saw wot all the time. Sometimes I have to take bathroom breaks and sometimes the saw runs out of fuel; stuff like that. But... So far I am happy with the 441. Would I have tried the 372 if the dealer support was better than the Stihl? You bet.

Funny thing about that dealer support issue; So far haven't needed any.

Did you say same price, no way, how can that be??LOL

 

[PA Plumber]

Did you say same price, no way, how can that be??LOL

I can dig up my receipt and let you know what I paid. Very likely won't help things though.

 

[joatmon]

Awwwwwwwwwww now now. First off lets clear the slate clean and gets to the point. The 441 did indeed replace the 440. The 440 is gone as Stihl said it would be. Now that other outfit built a 575 to replace the 372 but somehow the 372 seems to have 9 lives. First its gone and then it back and then its gone and back again. Marketing ploy at its best, dishonest as well. To keep it coming back they had to buy another company, Redmax, to get the EPA credits they needed to keep the 372 alive and well. Now who is on their heels, Stihl built a winner, Husky had to buy another company to keep the same saw in the line up they have been putting out for years. Does not take a genuis to see who is on the ball and who is lagging.

Now back to the 440. The 440 was indeed a great saw. The saw that replaced it is pretty good as well and Stihl kept its word the 440 was leaving. Oddly the 575 seems such a flop all the Husky fellers want to compare the old 372 with the new 441 instead of their 575, why is that?

Now Joat you have stirred the President and I'm sorry to say its you who is drinking Husky Kool-Aid dear chap, thats why I'm the Pres and your the speech writer,LOLOLOL

Tommie,

I have observed in reading through the AS forums that the general reputation of the 372 and 575s seem to be consistant over the last 6 months or so. That is, the 372 is a fine saw. Fast, light and a favorite in the 70cc class. Some seem to not like the "feel" as much as say the 440, but it's usually judged to be "a good saw". The 575 was never accepted as a good saw. First, we heard rumors of bearing failure. Then, too heavy and most of all, "it ain't no 372". Now, these reputations have endured for many months, unchanged. What is was yesterday is what it is today.

These same observations of the 440 and 441 lead me to a different conclusion. The 440 was the darling with vibs and filtering mattering not, but weight did matter. Recently, the 441 seems to be enjoying a different reputation. Suddenly, smooth cuts are in. Weight is not an issue because if we're just cutting firewood, just hold on and let the saw do the work. The clean filters are now in. Suddenly, fuel consumption takes center stage.

Now, I find it very interesting the the saw being "championed" is the one that's in stock at Stihl dealers everywhere. Did you notice that when the 372 was nowhere to be found, it was still touted as being a fine saw.

Tommie, you know I drink no Kool-Air before its time. I own the following:

Stihl 029
Stihl FS80
Stihl BG85
Stihl BR600
Husky 372XP
Husky 390XP

I'm thinking about an FS110 or FS130. I was set to buy a MS660 before the 390XP caught my eye. I drink from the "coolest trough" as I see it.

I do find the turn around in the 441s reputation to be remarkable. That is, until you consider the 441s "stock position".

Grace, peace, and best wishes from your most humble servant,

Joat

 

[Cut4fun]

I have ran a broke in 441, smooth in cut, I dont notice the weight issue, just I thought it was underpowered for my likings, but after you have ran a stock Dolmar 7900 and could at one time get them for $200 less then the 441, it just dont make since, unless you are really dependent on dealer support.

 

[THALL10326]

Tommie,

I have observed in reading through the AS forums that the general reputation of the 372 and 575s seem to be consistant over the last 6 months or so. That is, the 372 is a fine saw. Fast, light and a favorite in the 70cc class. Some seem to not like the "feel" as much as say the 440, but it's usually judged to be "a good saw". The 575 was never accepted as a good saw. First, we heard rumors of bearing failure. Then, too heavy and most of all, "it ain't no 372". Now, these reputations have endured for many months, unchanged. What is was yesterday is what it is today.

These same observations of the 440 and 441 lead me to a different conclusion. The 440 was the darling with vibs and filtering mattering not, but weight did matter. Recently, the 441 seems to be enjoying a different reputation. Suddenly, smooth cuts are in. Weight is not an issue because if we're just cutting firewood, just hold on and let the saw do the work. The clean filters are now in. Suddenly, fuel consumption takes center stage.

Now, I find it very interesting the the saw being "championed" is the one that's in stock at Stihl dealers everywhere. Did you notice that when the 372 was nowhere to be found, it was still touted as being a fine saw.

Tommie, you know I drink no Kool-Air before its time. I own the following:

Stihl 029
Stihl FS80
Stihl BG85
Stihl BR600
Husky 372XP
Husky 390XP

I'm thinking about an FS110 or FS130. I was set to buy a MS660 before the 390XP caught my eye. I drink from the "coolest trough" as I see it.

I do find the turn around in the 441s reputation to be remarkable. That is, until you consider the 441s "stock position".

Grace, peace, and best wishes from your most humble servant,

Joat

LOLOL, I'm just telling ya its odd that one saw has nine lives. Stihl didn't spread gossip it was dropping the 440 and then turn around and bring it back, they did what they said they were gonna do. The other camp has pulled the you better get one before they are gone way too many times. As for the smoothness cut is in, not really. I still prefer the old style bushing system over the super smooth spring system. The reason the 441 is getting alot of fanfare over smoothness it because that was preached to no end by the Husky camp about the Huskies. Now Stihl has turned the table by force over seas and yes their buyers are throwing it back to the other side. Pay back is hell I know but fun too,LOLOL

Don't worry Joat, long as I'm Pres your job is secure no matter what ya say,LOLOL

 

[NYH1]

The other camp has pulled the you better get one before they are gone way too many times.

THALL, they didn't do it as a marketing gimmick. They did it because they didn't think they were going to be allowed to sell the 372 here anymore per the EPA. As you mentioned the purchase of Red Max allowed them to continue selling the 372 here again..........right, wrong or indifferent. I'm not making excuses for Husky at all. But if there is a way they can sell one of their most popular saws, they'd be stupid not to do it.

 

[joatmon]

LOLOL, I'm just telling ya its odd that one saw has nine lives. Stihl didn't spread gossip it was dropping the 440 and then turn around and bring it back, they did what they said they were gonna do. The other camp has pulled the you better get one before they are gone way too many times. As for the smoothness cut is in, not really. I still prefer the old style bushing system over the super smooth spring system. The reason the 441 is getting alot of fanfare over smoothness it because that was preached to no end by the Husky camp about the Huskies. Now Stihl has turned the table by force over seas and yes their buyers are throwing it back to the other side. Pay back is hell I know but fun too,LOLOL

Don't worry Joat, long as I'm Pres your job is secure no matter what ya say,LOLOL

Tommie,

I agree 100%, as do most in this joint, that Husky's position on 372XP availability is "unnatural".

By quoting my posts with the answer to a different question, I'm inclined to think that you agree with my posted position on the sudden change to the 441s reputation that correlates directly to the stocking dealers inventory position. I take it that you too, find it remarkable, or should I say marketable.

Now, say "Amen" or I'm gonna write a poem.

Knock and you will be knocked, axe and you will be axed,

Joat

 

[SawTroll]

.... I don't run my saw wot all the time. Sometimes I have to take bathroom breaks and sometimes the saw runs out of fuel; stuff like that. .....

I also run them WOT only when I use them, and when checking carb adjustment......:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

Saws should never be run at anything but WOT (or idle).

 

[Cut4fun]

Into musicals are you Thall.

I figured you for a Barbra Streisand fan! LOL.

Insert Thalls deep Elvis voice,

Elvis baby Elvis.

 

[SWE#Kipp]

Andy,

First off, I'm not addressing your original question. And for that, I apologize. I don't really know the answer to "bringing it (441) to life at higher elevations". Sorry.

Now, I'll elaborate on what I was trying to say in my post. I was attempting to answer the question "Why all the recent euphoria concerning the 441".

I'm not convinced its "performance" based.

Go back 6 months and read the posts. You'll find that most of the Stihl heads were saying that the 440 was the saw. Light, nimble and powerful. At that time, the 441 was said to be heavy, as heavy as the 460 with less power. People grumbled about the 441 being more "Husky like" in the anti-vib system and the air filtration. The bottom line at this point, get the 440s while you can because it's a classic and the new "Husky like", EPA influenced 441 was not going to fill the shoes of the 440. Oh, and the Stihl dealers had shelves full of 440s, and some had 441s, but not in any quantity.

Fast forward to recent times. You'll find that most of the Stihl heads are now saying that the 441 is the saw. Cuts are "laser like", and the few extra ounces are offset by the increased power. In fact, many claim that the 441 cuts as fast as the 460. The anti-vib system now makes for a smoother cut and now, it's not "Husky like" at all. Fuel efficiency now is extolled and the better filtration system is suddenly most important. The Stihl heads did coronate the 441 as the new champion. Oh, and the Stihl dealers now have shelves full of 441s, and few, if any 440s are to be found.

Now, Tommie, my friend, can come on here and give you a cup of the Stihl Kool-Aid (AKA tepid Folgers) and tell you that Stihl is in business to help their fellow man (logger), but they're in business to move product. Yep, the product that's sitting on the shelf. As I mentioned before, listen to "Money for Nothing" by Dire Straits:

Now look at them yo - yo's that's the way you do it,
You play the guitar on the MTV,
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Money for nothin' and chicks for free,
Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Lemme tell ya them guys ain't dumb,
Maybe get a blister on your little finger,
Maybe get a blister on your thumb.

We gotta install microwave ovens,
Custom kitchen deliveries,
We gotta move these refrigerators,
We gotta move these colour TV's,

See the little ****** with the earring and the makeup,
Yeah buddy that's his own hair,
That little ****** got his own jet airplane,
That little ****** he's a millionaire.

We gotta install microwave ovens,
Custom kitchens deliveries,
We gotta move these refrigerators,
We gotta move these colour TV's.

I shoulda learned to play the guitar,
I shoulda learned to play them drums,
Look at that mama, she got it stickin' in the camera,
Man we could have some fun,
And he's up there, what's that? Hawaiian noises?
Bangin' on the bongoes like a chimpanzee,
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Get your money for nothin' get your chicks for free.

We gotta install microwave ovens,
Custom kitchen deliveries,
We gotta move these refrigerators,
We gotta move these colour TV's, L0rd.

Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
You play the guitar on the MTV,
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it,
Money for nothin' and your chicks for free,
Money for nothin' and chicks for free.

So, time to wrap this up. Every good thing said about the 441 may be true. But consider the change in reputation of the 440 vs. the 441 in the last six months. I find it quite remarkable. Why the about face?

Warm regards,

Joat

PS:

1. No saws were harmed in preparing this post.
2. "Double R" was not consulted.
3. Manny has not contributed to this post.
4. Stihl sent my another $20 check for my Stihl dealer in the event I want to purchase another Stihl product, but this in no way influenced my post.
5. My FS80 hasn't been running right but it in no way influenced my post.
6. I don't watch MTV.
7. I have listened to Dire Straits.
8. The quoted line, "Bangin' on the bongoes like a chimpanzee" is not a reference to any Stihl dealer or user, living or dead. It is merely coincidental.
9. Tommie doesn't reply when I'm less than gratious to Stihl dealers, but I'm counting on his friendship to be stronger than the force of this post.

One of the best posts in a long long time !!!