Customer insists that stump grinding is part of my bid.

[tomtrees58]

I think this is a customer that's just out to cheat you. You should tell him that you will turn him into a collection agency and that will have a negative effect on his credit rating. You should also threaten to take him to court, which will also reflect on his credit.

are you licensed of so may be if not grind the stumps no big deal tom trees

 

[John464]

I just did a stump job today that I bid over the phone. Was told it was a 14" stump. Get there the stump itself is about 20" at base, with a 36" roor flair. I hand the lady the bill and she says all I was told that it would be $100 and I told her "what you communicated to us was an improper measurement, if we would of only grind 14" you would of had 22" of wood that would still be there. The extra charge is actually less than it should be but Im giving you a break" She still insisted that all stumps have roots and I should of known that there was going to be a root flair. "No ma'am, not all stumps have such a root flair and this is the charge, if you dont have the extra amount now you have 30 days to pay"

 

[tree md]

are you licensed of so may be if not grind the stumps no big deal tom trees

There is no licensing needed for OK tree workers. In fact there is no license for you to obtain here. If you are certified through the ISA that is great and you can advertise it but not necessary to own a tree service or do work here.

From the state website:

Oklahoma doesn't license resident construction contractors, except in the electrical, mechanical and plumbing trades. But there are some special requirements for nonresident contractors.

If you're not a resident of Oklahoma, you must post a bond equal to three time the tax liability (or 10%) of any contract you get in the state. You also need an employer identification number from the Oklahoma Tax Commission and the Oklahoma Employment Security Commission.

maglass.gif (1144 bytes)To find out if an electrician, plumber, or mechanical contractor is licensed in Oklahoma, call (405) 271-5217.


Don't let anything hold you back from trying to collect your money. You also have the option of placing a lien against his property.

 

[capetrees]

Read all the posts and I agree with some but not most. The idea that this guys even knows 50 other people that want trees taken down is crazy. Nobody discusses trees amongst their friends. They just don't. Backing down on the price was a bad start. I don't know your financial situation but backing down on the price just opens the door for them to abuse you more, especially in economic times like these. I never grind the stump as part of a removal, it's always extra. I offer it but most of the time it's waived. As mentioned, I don't know your financial situation but if it were me, I'd just walk away. I have enough other work and a good rep throuout my area which allows me to do that. For the profit of $150 to be taken away by working even more for a real a-hole, what's next? Chips removed, topsoil added and seeded, not to be paid till the grass grows? And for what, to please a one timer? No way. I'd walk.

 

[PurdueJoe]

I had a client couple months ago pull the same thing. After getting a call back because there pear pruning was good enough (extra trip back took 5 minutes to cut one branch off) I sold the husband the pruning of another pear and told him I would cut down the a small cherry (5 inch dbh 5 feet tall) if he went through with the pruning and would grind the stump when I was in the area grinding stumps. I show up grind the stump husband takes off to go play golf and go to get paid and the wifey says "well I thought the stump grinding was included in the price to cut it down". I said NO very quickly and explained to her that I she had already paid less then my minimum to grind stumps. Give people an inch they will take a mile. I have learned that whenever a client tries to talk you into lowering your you price the job ends up being a nightmare.

 

[chip's-tree]

I just finished up a job in which I underbid because the customer made a counter offer to my bid. I took his offer because I needed the work and made half my usual rate. Today I took him an invoice, and he asked if I finished the stumps. With a puzzled look, I gave a surprised "what are you talking about". The customer comes back with, “your estimate says remove the tree, and the stump is part of the tree". I pointed to the invoice which showed after expenses the actual removal of his trees was pretty much free. I made $150.00 on the removal of three 60 foot pin oaks, one of which was hanging over his neighbor’s house. The total bill was $1300.00 and I was only able to make money on the $50.00 per load haul fee(of which there were 11). He came back at me with, "you can sell the firewood, can’t you". I said, "sure I can after I put $40.00 of labor into each rick and hopefully sell them for $80.00 to pay for the labor".

My question is how do I get this guy to pay me without grinding the stumps (all of which are 26 inches+)? I have never had to state in a bid, price does not include stump grinding. My customers always know, stump grinding is an additional service.

I learned long ago - don't ever let a customer control the the bid---you'll get the short end everytime. if he don't like your price let him keep it. it sounds like he is set on winning this one. I would ck him out some before I talked anymore. your gut feeling should tell you if he is just stupid or trying to beat you.

 

[Toddppm]

Sounds pretty clear to me, you are not dealing with a rational person if they think the stump is included. If you grind the stump I bet he'll expect the grindings hauled too.
But some of it is your fault for not spelling it out.
I wouldn't do any more work for the guy, try to get paid any way you can and go to the next one.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

But some of it is your fault for not spelling it out.

99.99% of it falls on the contractor for failing to set expectations. How is the HO to know what is industry standard.

Make an honest attempt to make the HO "whole" before doing anything else. As i said, i would do a substandard grind. I've done it on a few small stumps when i failed to qualify the specs. As my first complaint of this sort said, some 15 years ago, the roots are part of the tree, "Your contract is for tree removal, I expect all of the tree to be removed."

Chalk it up as a learning experience.

 

[asthesun]

every estimate form/contract should say 'stumps are additional'. this way there's no confusion.

 

[Philbert]

Sorry for the mess and hassle you are facing.

But thank you for sharing your experience with the forum - I am sure that you saved several others the hassle, as they will be more clear and explicit in their bids, based on your story.

Philbert

 

[teamtree]

just write up a 5 page contract spelling out everything you will do and how much each thing will cost, including the cost to blow off the roof, deck, sidewalk, drive and street....

you may get screwed sometimes but if you are honest and discuss the project with the customer then there should be no problems.

just detail your estimate to a certain degree...I have check boxes on my estimate sheets that show all the options available.

 

[Menchhofer]

Same thing happened to be 25 years ago. I took the hit but changed my contract immediately.

"Tree/shrub/any plant removal shall not include root of stump removal:nor shall stump or root removal include debris displacement unless specified on the front of this document".........

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Hmm. Always tough when communiction goes awry.

Communication ALWAYS goes awry when you assume. Any contract should spell out in detail what is to be done, and, in some cases, what is NOT to be done.

Whether you're a plumber, electrician, mechanic, arborist, or whatever, using industry lingo and expecting every customer to understand it is asking for trouble.

 

[YoungTreeGuy]

So, customer hires you to grind, cleanup and fill a 77" stump for $154. After you grind thestump, Customer says: "Wait, you didn't finish. The stump isn't cleaned up and you didn't put dirt in the hole.... WHAT! You didn't mention in your quote that you charge extra for that! I assumed cleanup and dirt fill were included since you didn't specify that they weren't..."

Many ways to get stung. Depends on how one wants to read into it.

Usually level stump and clean grinding if I take the tree down and grind the stump no charge. Even throw some grass seed down if Imade enough.

 

[treeseer]

Roots are part of the tree too; are you expected to remove those??

Cut close to grade and you are done.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

When one does land clearing, is there to be any land left?

If you were paid to top a tree, does that mean at the stump level?

If you are paid to paint a house, does that mean the birck and windows?

If paid to wash car with soap and water, wax, does that mean the interiour and engine too?

If paid to rotate tires, does that mean to jack up and spin?

We had one similair, told her the stump shouldn't come out, it was holding soil for the other trees etc. So, we got by and paid. then, she ahd someone else remove stump, i told him he shouldn't he did, a month later tyhe other tree tipped over into the high power lines...

 

[conlan]

Here is how you should write all your quotes.

To avoid this problem from ever happening again, write your quotations like this: - Cut to grade the tree and remove all wood and branches. Cost $1,000, plus taxes.
- Grind out the stump of the above mentioned tree to 10 inches below ground level (or however deep you both agree on). Cost $ 200, plus taxes.
- Remove wood chips from the stump grinding. Cost $50, plus taxes.

This format leaves no room for confusion.

I think your client is pushing it too far. Why doesn't he say remove every little tiny root as well, after all they are part of the tree too.

Good luck

 

[YoungTreeGuy]

To avoid this problem from ever happening again, write your quotations like this: - Cut to grade the tree and remove all wood and branches. Cost $1,000, plus taxes.
- Grind out the stump of the above mentioned tree to 10 inches below ground level (or however deep you both agree on). Cost $ 200, plus taxes.
- Remove wood chips from the stump grinding. Cost $50, plus taxes.

This format leaves no room for confusion.

I think your client is pushing it too far. Why doesn't he say remove every little tiny root as well, after all they are part of the tree too.

Good luck

"I thought you where going to cut it to grade. What are you going to do about that hill? Can't you dig it down and cut it lower?"

Also rocks, bolts, chains, etc will eventually cause problems with "Cut to grade."Even causes problems with grinding.

My old man draws maps and labels the trees then rights prices next to them with a description of what he is going to do to each tree, diameter of the base, rocks around the base... I don't draw a mini map but the more you cover our self the better off you are.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Should always write down grinding as a separate itemization.

 

[adamc]

Speaking as a HO and not as a pro tree worker, I would have to say that there is room for the average person to be confused about whether or not stump removal would be included. I would advise everyone reading this to be as thorough and specific in how they describe the work to be done in their bids.

Again, speaking as a HO, threatening small claims court or collections should be a last resort. If any contractor made such a threat to me, I would be sure to dig my heels in deeper. If you are absolutely sure the customer is a blowhard and trying to cheat you, I may make such a threat, but I would have to be pretty sure.

I really think that this is the best suggestion in the whole thread:

"Sir, I am sorry, but the standard practice in this industry is to separate stump grinding from tree removal. You are certainly free to call other tree removal firms to verify they also bid the 2 separate. Finally, you might also ask for other bids on stump grinding. If you do that, I assume you will quickly understand that my price could not have possibly included stump grinding."

If you want to keep dealing with him, add: "I will be happy to meet the lowest written stump grinding bid and extend the final due date for the stump grinding payment only for an extra 30 days."

If I were the contractor here, I would probably go so far as to do the stump grinding at my cost for the labor and consider the money lost as payment for a lesson on bid writing. Considering the guys attitude, it is probably reasonable to insist on payment of at least 50% of the original amount before doing the additional work.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Adam