Customer insists that stump grinding is part of my bid.

[adamc]

Since I posted above and quoted what I thought was the most sensible post in this thread, I thought it might be fun to quote the one that I thought was the least sensible... even beyond the "sue the bastard" posts!

I just did a stump job today that I bid over the phone. Was told it was a 14" stump. Get there the stump itself is about 20" at base, with a 36" roor flair. I hand the lady the bill and she says all I was told that it would be $100 and I told her "what you communicated to us was an improper measurement, if we would of only grind 14" you would of had 22" of wood that would still be there. The extra charge is actually less than it should be but Im giving you a break" She still insisted that all stumps have roots and I should of known that there was going to be a root flair. "No ma'am, not all stumps have such a root flair and this is the charge, if you dont have the extra amount now you have 30 days to pay"

You set yourself up for a battle here. Giving a price over the phone without seeing the job was mistake number one, but you may have gotten a pass if you would have had the sense to adjust the bid before starting work.

If you had knocked on the door and told the lady something like: "My measurement of the stump is different than what you stated on the phone and unfortunately, this stump has an unusually large root flare. Based on this, I will have to charge $XXX.00 to remove it. I will be happy to remove it today for that price, or if you would prefer to solicit additional bids, I will be happy to come back another day", you would have saved yourself and the customer a lot of grief and you wouldn't have had to been mean to an old lady.

Adam

 

[arbor pro]

If you had knocked on the door and told the lady something like: "My measurement of the stump is different than what you stated on the phone and unfortunately, this stump has an unusually large root flare. Based on this, I will have to charge $XXX.00 to remove it. I will be happy to remove it today for that price, or if you would prefer to solicit additional bids, I will be happy to come back another day", you would have saved yourself and the customer a lot of grief and you wouldn't have had to been mean to an old lady.

Adam

:agree2:

Nothing wrong with giving an estimate (not bid) over the phone but, you shouldn't raise your price without consulting with the customer first. Sometimes, when I estimate a stump grinding job over the phone, I'll tell them straight out, "It's x amout per average diameter inch including the root flare. Based upon the measurements you're giving me, I estimate it to cost x amout. However, should my measurements be different than those you are giving me, I can grind the stump and apply my rate to the actual measurements I took".

In about half of the stumps I grind under this scenario, I end up with a higher bill after measuring the stump myself than what the customer figured over the phone. I have learned from experience that most HOs estimate a stump at about 60-75% of the actual size. When they tell me it's a 12" stump, I assume it's 15-18". A 24" stump is likely going to be 30-36 when I measure the root flare. I try to take this into account when giving an estimate but I always make sure they agree to pay more if my measurement is bigger.

Usually, I don't give them a chance to get more bids. If they don't agree to my price per diameter inch over the phone, I pass on the job. It takes too long to drive to each job and give a bid. I only want to show up if I'm doing the work for sure. On occasion, where there are numerous big stumps, I'll make a site visit in order to provide the estimate. For 1-6 stumps, it's all done over the phone at x amout per diameter inch and x amout extra if over 6" tall and x amount extra if ground deeper than 8 inches and x amout extra if cleaned up.

I do the same for small pruning jobs. all bid hourly. Takes too long to make site visits to bid $100 or less pruning jobs. Every minute I'm bidding a job is one minute less that I'm billing out for tree work that got done. A 20 minute site visit (including drive time) to give an stump grinding estimate costs me $40. If that stump is only a $50 job, I'm only netting $10 to do the work. Can't make a living doing that!

Sorry to get off track from the original post. Adamc started it...

 

[adamc]

arbor pro,

If that bidding technique works for you, that's great! I will be surprised if human nature doesn't come back to bite you eventually.

My real issue with the poster was that he showed up and did the work without letting the home owner that it was going to cost more. If I was that customer, I would have been upset too.

Adam

 

[arbor pro]

My real issue with the poster was that he showed up and did the work without letting the home owner that it was going to cost more. If I was that customer, I would have been upset too.

I agreed with you. He should have told them over the phone that there was a chance that it might cost more if he measures the stump to be bigger than what the HO was telling him. At that point, the customer could say, "If it's going to cost more, call me 1st with the new price" or "go ahead and do it at your adjusted rate according to your measurements".

Expecting the HO to pay more than what was quoted over the phone without making the possibility of such known to the HO up front is not a good way to keep your clients happy.

If that bidding technique works for you, that's great! I will be surprised if human nature doesn't come back to bite you eventually.

Why would human nature come back to bite me? I'm telling them up front that, if their measurements arent' correct, I'm going to measure and adjust the price accordingly. If they don't agree that, they can find someone else to do the job. I'm not trying to sneak anything into the final bill. I'm just telling the HO to measure right if they want an accurate quote or I'll measure it when I get there and charge accordingly.

 

[lxt]

Mmm... judge probably will side with the customer as you did not specifically state the stump would not be removed!! how ever the good thing is you just learned how you have to word things, similar incident this year my self different situation though!

The one thing that saves me from cunning want it for free home owners is my "Estimate/Work Authorization" sheet, wich has the major scope of work with a check box beside it, if its not checked it doesnt get done.....unless they want to pay me the going rate.

anyhow good luck, be safe!


LXT...........

 

[adamc]

arbor pro,

Why would human nature come back to bite me? I'm telling them up front that, if their measurements arent' correct, I'm going to measure and adjust the price accordingly. If they don't agree that, they can find someone else to do the job. I'm not trying to sneak anything into the final bill. I'm just telling the HO to measure right if they want an accurate quote or I'll measure it when I get there and charge accordingly.

Sorry, I think the way I worded my reply may have sounded like I was critical of your approach. I'm didn't mean to be, and I absolutely 100% did not mean to imply that you would try to be deceptive. I think it is a great way to give a rough estimate without having to visit the site and without committing yourself to underbidding. My point about human nature was that eventually someone is likely to whine or accuse you of deception when your price doubles because they understimated the the size of the stump by 50% and they completely tuned out your explanation that if the stump was bigger, the price would be too.

If you can bid twice as many jobs and only have to deal with one moron like I am describing a year, then you are coming out way ahead.

Adam

 

[BCMA]

This is an example of bad contracting. Do not leave your contracts open to interpretation. If I make a mistake by not clarifying what exactly we will be doing, and what the expectation of the client is, then we accept the responsibility. Take the high road and grind the stumps. This is part of your college education. We have all made this mistake. The important thing is that we learn from our mistakes and not repeat them.

 

[StihlRockin']

Just let him see your prior written estimates/quotes/invoices which clearly shows and differentiates the tree removal and stump removal. That will also show him his narrow-mindedness in making his false assumption and maybe he'll rethink his first observation?

StihlRockin'