Falling wedges. What's good, what's not, and why?

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

Wedges and face selection is a skill some people will never learn. There seems to a general attitude on here that a new falling technique is taboo:msp_confused: I guess that on here a lot people hate to learn or try to learn something new. For me to trying something new is more fun then being anti new things. Your never to old to learn something new.
:confused2:

 

[madhatte]

So, I have my new crew for this summer. One person I have to work with comes to us via a contract crew with a "B" faller cert. He's sharp as hell on Forestry stuff, but I watched him run a saw today and he can't even start it, much less run it. I don't know who signed off on that "B" cert but I'd very much like to do that person harm; this person is trainable, and I'll make a passable bucker of him given time, but he should never have gotten that signature. Right now we're just brushing roads, and I felt obligated to pull him aside and go over the basics so he wouldn't hurt himself.

On-topic: some people aren't ready for wedges. With training they will be. It's important that somebody care enough about safety to commit to a training program. It's also important that training and certification standards be upheld and enforced.

 

[lfnh]

The point of the link is showing why having the correct wedge would have made the tree fall with out risk of it stump setting.
YouTube - ‪How to Cut Down a Tree : Using a Felling Wedge When Cutting Down a Tree‬‏

I'm confused. Post 437 was made in reference to Fenn's video (as in the quoted post herein),
which exhibits the down angled back cut.

This notorious down angled back cut has been debated in the negative in many, many forums over a long period of time.

Go back to the first year of posts on AS.

 

[8433jeff]

The point of the first video is they should have used 6" wedges. A 6" wedge has the ability to provide lift quicker on smaller tree. The video showed that the wedges bottomed out on the hinge and failed to provide the needed lift, now if they had only the long wedges they should have side wedged the tree. Knowing how to select the correct type and length of wedge is very important skill to have when felling trees.

So the 4" wedge you are insinuating that bottomed (allegedly) on the hinge is replaced by a 6" wedge that will magically not bottom on the hinge?
Are you watching the same video, Mr. Rather? With out that wedge the saw is still on the stump when the wind pushes the tree over backwards. Yes, another wedge from the side may have helped. "The Wind" may have made driving that wedge from the side quite a chore, and wouldn't have been too prudent safety wise.

I think I've sawed more logs in church than you have in your life, and I don't know a dang thing. Except that I don't sleep much in church.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

Since people can not figure out why a 6" wedge provides more lift faster then a 10" or twelve inch here is a good picture.View attachment 189983View attachment 189984

 

[paccity]

Wedges and face selection is a skill some people will never learn. There seems to a general attitude on here that a new falling technique is taboo:msp_confused: I guess that on here a lot people hate to learn or try to learn something new. For me to trying something new is more fun then being anti new things. Your never to old to learn something new.
:confused2:

new? what the heii have fallers ben doing for at least the last 200 year's? you don't think some of the crap hasn't ben tryed and discarded? unbelevable , i just don't know what else to say.:bang:

 

[T_F_E]

new? what the heii have fallers ben doing for at least the last 200 year's? you don't think some of the crap hasn't ben tryed and discarded? unbelevable , i just don't know what else to say.:bang:

I agree, we dont need to re invent the wheel here. What works works.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

If you have been around long enough in the woods you have figured out what works best for you. I have never said that a sloping back is the end all be all of hazard tree falling, it was a one time use for a snag were I had little time and limited tools on hand, yes a the snag could have been tried with a flat back but it was a iffy situation at best. These snags were rotten and internal wood quality was in question. Every tree or snag has to be treated for the conditions present not some by the book opinion. There is a lot of regional differences in face cutting styles. The face cut I have to laugh at is the open face described in Stihl owner manuals I got complimented by the state forestry on the stumps from the logging my Dad and I did this winter on the ranch. They said that they were surprised how well the tree lays were setup. These trees were 36" to 50" straight across the stump.

 

[056kid]

shut up yo.

 

[bitzer]

Bitzer are you saying the FS guy in the video doesn't know his stuff? COME ON MAN! He is probably a C certifier. Trimming up the face is a good thing. I do it whenever I mismatch my cuts and I teach others to do the same thing. You can't be saying you never mismatch cuts or that your face never needs a cleanup. I always watch my wedges along with the top. You, well me anyway, can't always see the top well and watching the wedge move is another tool in the tool box. One does not replace the other it just gives more information especially in the wind. Tighten the wedge as needed. I thought you cut more than cookies and firewood.

Sometimes I have a hard time reading you man. Of course I come up short on cuts and faces need cleaning. I wouldn't even put myself in the ballpark with the respected guys in the F&L, you included, in terms of timber falling prowess. I also watch wedges move and kerfs open. It was a lot of messing around though and for an instructional video I wouldn't have been happy with that if it were me.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

Knowing how to select the wedge and knowing how to read the back cut is a skill a lot of people do not understand. Using the right wedge and knowing when to hit hard or hit softly is skill that takes practice. The one thing that gives me the willies is watching some one miss read the tree and the tree either pinches the saw or goes over the wrong way. Having several sizes of wedges will give a person the option to use short or long or double or triple stack wedges.

 

[lfnh]

The point of the link is showing why having the correct wedge would have made the tree fall with out risk of it stump setting.
YouTube - ‪How to Cut Down a Tree : Using a Felling Wedge When Cutting Down a Tree‬‏

So, just to be certain, the added at the end of the Fenn video reference, means you think the "felling method" Fenn depicted (down angled back cut) is not a good technique ?



eel

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

So, just to be certain, the added at the end of the Fenn video reference, means you think the felling method Fenn depicted (down angled back cut) is not a good technique ?

The guy is joke, he is worth watching just for sheets and grins. He is going to get some one killed. I am the type if some one posts a video or a picture of a tree falling style I am not going rush and try it, I will study it and see if it has any value,one never knows it may be feasible in the right situation .

YouTube - ‪Tongue and Groove Tree Felling Technique‬‏

 

[2dogs]

Which guy is a joke Fenn from the previous video or Ekka from your last post?

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

Anything Fenn does is joke

 

[lfnh]

Problem is, people reading this forum might not be able to distinguished the tried, good techniques from the bad ones that'll get ya hurt. They might just not understand that a video on the net is depicting a risky method and why it's risky or just outright dangerous.

 

[2dogs]

Sometimes I have a hard time reading you man. Of course I come up short on cuts and faces need cleaning. I wouldn't even put myself in the ballpark with the respected guys in the F&L, you included, in terms of timber falling prowess. I also watch wedges move and kerfs open. It was a lot of messing around though and for an instructional video I wouldn't have been happy with that if it were me.

Well it is an instructional video so all the time needed to explain the situation should be taken. Remember USFS employees are working at a different pace than production fallers. Their goal is to came home safely, in the case of the video, after falling fire damaged snags and trees. This is extremely hazardous work! Plus once you have the tree faced up you can take your time to make sure everything is going according to plan. I suppose they have to do a JHA before each tree is cut anyway. FS (and BLM) works long hours in rough conditions, no need to hurry.

They also often leave the biggest nastiest trees for specialty fallers. Smart move there!

 

[2dogs]

The guy is joke, he is worth watching just for sheets and grins. He is going to get some one killed. I am the type if some one posts a video or a picture of a tree falling style I am not going rush and try it, I will study it and see if it has any value,one never knows it may be feasible in the right situation .

YouTube - ‪Tongue and Groove Tree Felling Technique‬‏

Remember the T&G method is used on palms. It may not work on trees. BTW that vid is by a member and has been posted here for years.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

The thing about the video of the FS fallers was the unprofessional behavior shown. A true professional faller would not be be seen throwing rocks at a properly faced and back cut tree because they failed to have the right equipment to do the job.

 

[2dogs]

The thing about the video of the FS fallers was the unprofessional behavior shown. A true professional faller would not be be seen throwing rocks at faced and back cut tree because they failed to have the right equipment to do the job.

I might have tickled the hinge a little but the tree did fall right where it was suposed to go. They were waiting out the wind. Heck I would have probably thrown rocks at the tree just for fun but then I'm one of those guys who is always throwing rocks.