FarmerTec Huztl MS660 Updated Build Kit - Build Thread

[ammoaddict]

Welcome to arborist site. New ideas are always welcome. Videos of your process would be much appreciated. Good luck and keep us posted.

Hi guys, first post here so I will do a short introduction. I am going to build my first kit saw 660 after looking at the forums and YouTube videos. I have 105 acres of Wisconsin woods that I do logging on and it would be nice to have a saw with a long bar to drop some giant red pine and basswood when the stihl 391 20" bar is not ideal. Ok, I just want to build one lol. I don't want to divulge to much about my employment but I have or have worked as an experimental engine builder, experimental mechanic, and a tech specialist developing engine calibrations, so putting one of these together isn't too confusing. I do have a couple assembly techniques I am going to tryin the crank case assembly and I will share the results. I cringe seeing any videos of guys using a mallet, or a press incorrectly. These are assembled cranks, and hitting or pressing on the end of the shafts can put the crank out of true because the crank is not a straight shaft. I also don't see many guys checking the crank runout, big gamble to trust the Chinese to true them. A cheapo set of v-blocks an an indicator can be used but again, I suggest checking this. My crank was .005 out, I adjusted it to under .002 in the end. I built crank pulling tools but I am going to try a modified version of the heat and cold method with either liquid nitrogen, freon, or dry ice and acetone. I've used this method on installing valve seats into heads, and barrels into trunnion receivers on rifles. Purely drop on! I am fairly confident it will work. And no you don't compromise the parts, in fact cryogenic freezing strengthens them. I'll keep you posted, enjoyed the reading!

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Schmalts]

Hi, have fun!

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Will do! I enjoy finding cheap alternatives to things. I am so busy I wish I could dive into this faster but it's going to be done in stages when time allows. I plan to get a OEM piston pin and bearing, and viton intake boot. I might use tygon for the fuel lines, even though they aren't designed for it but tygon is great material. I have found on any small rubber hose a tiny wire zip tie works great as a hose clamp at times. The cylinder looksgood after cleaning up the ports but im not impressed with the feel of the piston in the bore, but I look at it as it's not always a catastrophic type failure so iwill try it, but the flywheel side bearing has to go...

 

[X 66 Stang347 X]

Your post was 1832 referred to me Mr Bedford.
If you want to know our exact discussion about the hyway cylinder I can copy and paste it for you.
I mentioned to him if I didn't get the Hyway topend I maybe interested in selling my kit for $200 shipped.
That "dusty" kit is still in the box and in the labeled bags.
The problem your speaking of is with the cylinders and not the kits. So essentially farmer's topend could be tested on a oem case.

I could have missed everyone but how many had cylinder problems? You, then MG which was heavily ported and imprzed205 but we know nothing about his build.
That cross cylinder is on a 064 that cuts a couple times a week with a 32" bar It's tuned to 13,000.

Why are you short with the new guys and want them to read back in the forum or go to a website.
That's fine but don't chastise them for asking questions that's been covered awhile ago. That's what this thread needs is involvement and open doors.
In the beginning of Ammo's build he was left figuring out a lot of questions and was referred other places.
I've had a couple new guys pm me asking questions.
I feel it's because they don't want to speak up in the forum, I help with info best I can. Let's move forward and help build saws.

Where did I reply to you. Bizarre post.I don't exactly understand it.

I was trying to help Mike find a guy who could help him tell the story to other guys in the thread and I suggested you but instead you tried to sell him a kit, your dusty kit. Lol. I guess we will never learn if that cylinder kit was any good. How selfless of you.

I will repeat this just once more, the kits have changed over time as far as a item having trouble with occasional part. Like the first cases causing issues with the chain adjuster. The case mold was changed and the problem went away except for occasional issues with the gears afterwards. So saws you built right after they started selling or the kit sitting in your shop are built from aftermarket parts that are different in some cases and that makes a difference when you tell someone about your experience with a part it could be different, I still believe they stack them ready to ship in trailers so they can sell a kit with original cases once in a blue moon when they get low one gets shipped. Keeping up with that helps

 

[X 66 Stang347 X]

Hi guys, first post here so I will do a short introduction. I am going to build my first kit saw 660 after looking at the forums and YouTube videos. I have 105 acres of Wisconsin woods that I do logging on and it would be nice to have a saw with a long bar to drop some giant red pine and basswood when the stihl 391 20" bar is not ideal. Ok, I just want to build one lol. I don't want to divulge to much about my employment but I have or have worked as an experimental engine builder, experimental mechanic, and a tech specialist developing engine calibrations, so putting one of these together isn't too confusing. I do have a couple assembly techniques I am going to tryin the crank case assembly and I will share the results. I cringe seeing any videos of guys using a mallet, or a press incorrectly. These are assembled cranks, and hitting or pressing on the end of the shafts can put the crank out of true because the crank is not a straight shaft. I also don't see many guys checking the crank runout, big gamble to trust the Chinese to true them. A cheapo set of v-blocks an an indicator can be used but again, I suggest checking this. My crank was .005 out, I adjusted it to under .002 in the end. I built crank pulling tools but I am going to try a modified version of the heat and cold method with either liquid nitrogen, freon, or dry ice and acetone. I've used this method on installing valve seats into heads, and barrels into trunnion receivers on rifles. Purely drop on! I am fairly confident it will work. And no you don't compromise the parts, in fact cryogenic freezing strengthens them. I'll keep you posted, enjoyed the reading!

Very interesting Post pics and vids along the way.
I didn't check my crank or flywheel. But all I've ran has more vibration than a oem

 

[Bedford T]

Your post was 1832 referred to me Mr Bedford.
If you want to know our exact discussion about the hyway cylinder I can copy and paste it for you.
I mentioned to him if I didn't get the Hyway topend I maybe interested in selling my kit for $200 shipped.
That "dusty" kit is still in the box and in the labeled bags.
The problem your speaking of is with the cylinders and not the kits. So essentially farmer's topend could be tested on a oem case.

I could have missed everyone but how many had cylinder problems? You, then MG which was heavily ported and imprzed205 but we know nothing about his build.
That cross cylinder is on a 064 that cuts a couple times a week with a 32" bar It's tuned to 13,000.

Why are you short with the new guys and want them to read back in the forum or go to a website.
That's fine but don't chastise them for asking questions that's been covered awhile ago. That's what this thread needs is involvement and open doors.
In the beginning of Ammo's build he was left figuring out a lot of questions and was referred other places.
I've had a couple new guys pm me asking questions.
I feel it's because they don't want to speak up in the forum, I help with info best I can. Let's move forward and help build saws.

This covers both how much you paid attention and me asking you about the hyway. Is this the one you meant?

Your message too me about whether you will mess that the hyway no messages about selling your kit

"I'll think about it.
I wonder how thorough they want the test? A properly sealed and tuned engine would be needed.
I've read the the 660 thread on and off and it's seemed the kind of people building the kits have changed slightly compared to the ones originally.

Your right about people not listening and then wanting to complain when it's all laid out what to expect. You've done all the leg work on your site and on the forum.'

chainsaw kits and packing lists
http://thechainsawkitguy.com
http://YouTube.com/c/the1chainsawguy

 

[X 66 Stang347 X]

Where did I reply to you. Bizarre post.I don't exactly understand it.

I was trying to help Mike find a guy who could help him tell the story to other guys in the thread and I suggested you but instead you tried to sell him a kit, your dusty kit. Lol. I guess we will never learn if that cylinder kit was any good. How selfless of you.

I will repeat this just once more, the kits have changed over time as far as a item having trouble with occasional part. Like the first cases causing issues with the chain adjuster. The case mold was changed and the problem went away except for occasional issues with the gears afterwards. So saws you built right after they started selling or the kit sitting in your shop are built from aftermarket parts that are different in some cases and that makes a difference when you tell someone about your experience with a part it could be different, I still believe they stack them ready to ship in trailers so they can sell a kit with original cases once in a blue moon when they get low one gets shipped. Keeping up with that helps answer questions.



chainsaw kits and packing lists
http://thechainsawkitguy.com
http://YouTube.com/c/the1chainsawguy

You said I tried selling my kit instead of helping him test his hyway. And how selfless that was. What did I miss?

 

[X 66 Stang347 X]

I was getting the kit from him Thursday to test. But who knows if the wants to now with the all the nonsense going on.

 

[Bedford T]

I was getting the kit from him Thursday to test. But who knows if the wants to now with the all the nonsense going on.

I am sure he does. You are still the best choice.


chainsaw kits and packing lists
http://thechainsawkitguy.com
http://YouTube.com/c/the1chainsawguy

 

[Schmalts]

Well I took one of the 2 clutch side bearings apart to find why the farmertec bearing feels like crap. My bad, in my post yesterday I said it was the flywheel side, i was not at my saw when I posted it, but the gritty bearings are the clutch side. Here is what I found.... I rolled one ball in the race until I found the tick, and then inspected it. Not good, my advise is to roll your kit bearings very fast on your finger, and load and turn them as well to see if you feel any clicking spots. Look what I found, those bearing would have spalled in short time. Farmertec needs to get this fixed, Do not install these!
Again, anyone have an AM source for these that are worth a crap

 

[Bedford T]

Well I took one of the 2 clutch side bearings apart to find why the farmertec bearing feels like crap. My bad, in my post yesterday I said it was the flywheel side, i was not at my saw when I posted it, but the gritty bearings are the clutch side. Here is what I found.... Not good, my advise is to roll your kit bearings very fast on your finger, and load and turn them as well to see if you feel any clicking spots. Look what I found, those bearing would have spalled in short time. Farmertec needs to get this fixed, Do not install these!View attachment 666127

We have seen shavings in them. Washing them out usually fixed it. Individual parts, so today the bearings are something you're saying we need to look at. It changes.

chainsaw kits and packing lists
http://thechainsawkitguy.com
http://YouTube.com/c/the1chainsawguy

 

[Schmalts]

Yes, this is not debris, it is in the grind and polishing of the race groove. This looks to be a tooling mark that did not get polished out. I tried to brake clean blast out the installed bearing to no avail, and then when this uninstalled bearing I bought off Amazon showed up it felt the same. There is no possible way this bearing would not spall premature. Any defect you can feel that much when rolling a single ball over will just propagate to a larger spall. If anyone wants to inspect the bearing, pop out the ball seperator, move all the balls together to one side, and a small channel lock pliers works good to get the slight force needed to pop the inner race over to where there is no balls and then can be removed. You can assemble it back together when done, but it is a little harder.... but you can do it. This is where cheap Chinese bearings pale in comparison to a good name like Timken, FAG, and SKF. They do not polish out the grooves like they should be. This would be OK for something like a bike wheel, but not for 13000 RPM's. I will add that the flywheel side bearings feel very good, No worries there with the one installed and the one I got with bearing/seal kit.

 

[Bedford T]

Yes, this is not debris, it is in the grind and polishing of the race groove. This looks to be a tooling mark that did not get polished out. I tried to brake clean blast out the installed bearing to no avail, and then when this uninstalled bearing I bought off Amazon showed up it felt the same. There is no possible way this bearing would not spall premature. Any defect you can feel that much when rolling a single ball over will just propagate to a larger spall.

No doubt, I was just summarizing for those following along to the bearing history.

chainsaw kits and packing lists
http://thechainsawkitguy.com
http://YouTube.com/c/the1chainsawguy

 

[William Prophett]

Intersting.... So, you actually know all the good bearing manufacturers, but keep asking if anyone knows where to get a better bearing? You can always polish out any problems with your .30 cent bearing if you want or replace it with any of the ones you listed... I'm interested in building one with Dominant Saw ceramic beearings myself, but that isn't for this post. One thing that has not been a point of failure for these kit saws are the cheap bearings. Like yourself, there have been times folks have caught "crunchy" (not just debris)ones and replaced them in the beginning, like anyone would do with any crunchy bearing in any application.

 

[Schmalts]

If you can help come up with the part number one one that is verified to have the same diameter of the outer race to take the seal, then yes I will use one of the better bearing manufactures and we all could benefit from it.. Listen, I got 2 bad ones in a row, how many times would you suggest buying the same crap before you get a good one?

 

[William Prophett]

If you can help come up with the part number one one that is verified to have the same diameter of the outer race to take the seal, then yes I will use one of the better bearing manufactures and we all could benefit from it.. Listen, I got 2 bad ones in a row, how many times would you suggest buying the same crap before you get a good one?

So far you've used all the "smart" lingo to prove that you know what you are talking about, mic the hole and call the manufacturer like anyone else that doesn't trust the replacement bearings to seal the hole. This is an interesting bearing issue for those of you that don't build "alot" of things. These bearings have to spin very high rpm and also hold pressure and vacuum. It's actually a lot to ask of any bearing. Like I said above, the bestings have not been a point of failure on these cheap kits. I haven't seen or heard of a main bearing actually failing. The better question would be "how many spin fine but don't seal well and cause your build to grenande"... If you are worried about the seal, use an anerobic sealer around the seating surface on the cases... There are certain "levels" of people as it pertains to anything. In engineering we test people, "can they weld stainless" "can they tear down a complete engine and rebild" "can they take apart a bearing and put it back together" etc.... If you can take apart a bearing and put it back together, you know what you are doing. You also know you can polish it. You also know how to order a bearing. Good luck with it, but I'm guessing you already know your "answers"....

 

[William Prophett]

If you can help come up with the part number one one that is verified to have the same diameter of the outer race to take the seal, then yes I will use one of the better bearing manufactures and we all could benefit from it.. Listen, I got 2 bad ones in a row, how many times would you suggest buying the same crap before you get a good one?

The Stihl part number is 9523 003 4555

 

[dmb2613]

this is a screwed up thread for sure

 

[Schmalts]

So far you've used all the "smart" lingo to prove that you know what you are talking about, mic the hole and call the manufacturer like anyone else that doesn't trust the replacement bearings to seal the hole. This is an interesting bearing issue for those of you that don't build "alot" of things. These bearings have to spin very high rpm and also hold pressure and vacuum. It's actually a lot to ask of any bearing. Like I said above, the bestings have not been a point of failure on these cheap kits. I haven't seen or heard of a main bearing actually failing. The better question would be "how many spin fine but don't seal well and cause your build to grenande"... If you are worried about the seal, use an anerobic sealer around the seating surface on the cases... There are certain "levels" of people as it pertains to anything. In engineering we test people, "can they weld stainless" "can they tear down a complete engine and rebild" "can they take apart a bearing and put it back together" etc.... If you can take apart a bearing and put it back together, you know what you are doing. You also know you can polish it. You also know how to order a bearing. Good luck with it, but I'm guessing you already know your "answers"....

I do know the answers, but one of the points of these threads is time savings. I was hoping someone has done this footwork of finding a cheap alternative to the bearing. I'll hit the local bearing store at lunch, might be a longshot but maybe they might have one. I am not saying the farmertec bearings are all crap, but like all production they may have had a bad run and I might have 2 from that.

 

[William Prophett]

I do know the answers, but one of the points of these threads is time savings. I was hoping someone has done this footwork of finding a cheap alternative to the bearing. I'll hit the local bearing store at lunch, might be a longshot but maybe they might have one.

At least you will have the ability to get a "solid" replacement that way. For the cost of the bearings, more folks should go with good ones. The only consolation is that they haven't been a point of failure "yet". I've got 3 Husky 2 series saws that have 30 year old bearings still doing their job. Gonna be a long time before we know the real "story" about the bearings in the kit.

 

[Schmalts]

At least you will have the ability to get a "solid" replacement that way. For the cost of the bearings, more folks should go with good ones. The only consolation is that they haven't been a point of failure "yet". I've got 3 Husky 2 series saws that have 30 year old bearings still doing their job. Gonna be a long time before we know the real "story" about the bearings in the kit.

I agree 100 percent. There is a chance though that most past builds didn't have this defect in the bearing as it could be a manufacturer lot issue. Here is a little better picture, not something you want to polish out or use for that matter. I advise everyone to pay attention to this bearing before using. You guys have done a great job identifying what parts to replace or look out for already, I'm just doing my part