I'm just parroting http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/technical/octane.htm when I say "ROZ stands for Reguläre Octan-Zahl which translates to Regulation Octane Number. ROZ is the German equivalent of RON."Molecule said:
Fuel/Oil mix
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My vote goes toward the last possibility. I spend a little less and blow a little less out the exhaust by using 40:1, and nothing that Fish says will change my mind!Stumper said:
Oh, I tried the teaspoon thing too, and neither the straight gas nor the gas/oil mix left any of the cotton wad, so what am I supposed to do?
IOW, ROZ = octane-USA plus 4.2
Glens --- thanks for the awesome find...
I got as far as this article
http://www.idavette.net/hib/fuel/index.htm
which does a fair job of explaining the history of gas, RON, MON, MTBE, RFG, MMT and on and on. But I found nothing on ROZ -- so, thanks again.
From the examples about 1/3 from the bottom of the first page of that article, it appears that RON+MON/2 should be written (RON+MON)/2. Moreover, the spread in the examples, RON - MON, is about 8.5, RON being higher. Meaning that there is probably a 4 point +/- difference between RON, e.g. ROZ, and "octane" USA. So, Dolmar's requirement of ROZ 91 would crank down to octane 87 USA, e.g. plain old Regular. I''ll take stumper's advice and use 89.
Dolmar_Tech might suggest that owner's manuals for usa distribution, or add a footnote or something to keep owner's from getting thrown off track ...
Glens --- thanks for the awesome find...
I got as far as this article
http://www.idavette.net/hib/fuel/index.htm
which does a fair job of explaining the history of gas, RON, MON, MTBE, RFG, MMT and on and on. But I found nothing on ROZ -- so, thanks again.
From the examples about 1/3 from the bottom of the first page of that article, it appears that RON+MON/2 should be written (RON+MON)/2. Moreover, the spread in the examples, RON - MON, is about 8.5, RON being higher. Meaning that there is probably a 4 point +/- difference between RON, e.g. ROZ, and "octane" USA. So, Dolmar's requirement of ROZ 91 would crank down to octane 87 USA, e.g. plain old Regular. I''ll take stumper's advice and use 89.
Dolmar_Tech might suggest that owner's manuals for usa distribution, or add a footnote or something to keep owner's from getting thrown off track ...
Locoweed
ArboristSite Guru
I went to the Stihl usa site and found this bit of information. While it doesn't answer what Roz is, it tells us the information that we need. Here is the text.
Q. What is the correct gas/oil ratio for STIHL products?
A. When using STIHL branded Two Cycle Mix Oil, 50:1. STIHL has Two Cycle Oil in easy to use bottles that are pre-measured for easy mixing with regular grade gasoline that has a minimum rating of 89 octane. Refer to your owner manual. See your dealer for STIHL Two Cycle Oil and for more information on your particular product.
If you would like to see it for yourself, the page is
http://www.stihlusa.com/faq_technical.html
Q. What is the correct gas/oil ratio for STIHL products?
A. When using STIHL branded Two Cycle Mix Oil, 50:1. STIHL has Two Cycle Oil in easy to use bottles that are pre-measured for easy mixing with regular grade gasoline that has a minimum rating of 89 octane. Refer to your owner manual. See your dealer for STIHL Two Cycle Oil and for more information on your particular product.
If you would like to see it for yourself, the page is
http://www.stihlusa.com/faq_technical.html
Al Smith
Addicted to ArboristSite
Chevy engine,saw gas ?
Not that it's any of my concern,but rather out of curiusity,why would you run a Chevy,on premix.It most likely,and obviously won't hurt it.It is just rather unusual,to say the least.Although,some few years back,we[a contractor ,I worked for],would buy leaded gasoline,for use in off road type things,a thousand gal. at a time,with no road use tax,hmm.
Not that it's any of my concern,but rather out of curiusity,why would you run a Chevy,on premix.It most likely,and obviously won't hurt it.It is just rather unusual,to say the least.Although,some few years back,we[a contractor ,I worked for],would buy leaded gasoline,for use in off road type things,a thousand gal. at a time,with no road use tax,hmm.
Because we are located in a remote, wilderness area and the majority of our fuel needs goes toward outboards. The tank contains only pre mix and it would not be worth it to buy another tank for straight gas. Haveing all the fuel mixed also prevents some one from filling a boat up with straight fuel.
Now this was entertaniment. And he probably VOTES
Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
Mr Walker, when you mix the oil for your Chevy in with the gas, do you stihl have to put oil in the crankcase or does the premix satisfy that need. I am looking for a job as a dock hand next summer and know all about chainsaws and outboards; do you have any openings?
Frank, no mixing invovled. I dump the oil into the main tank prior to it being filled.
W are always looking for good help, but kenora may be a bit of a drive for you,lol.
W are always looking for good help, but kenora may be a bit of a drive for you,lol.
Lewis Brander
Addicted to ArboristSite
Large premix gas tank.
Ben. Not trying to start something, but have a question. Do you or is there some way to recirculate, agitate, etc to keep the oil mixed in the gas? Just curious. Another question, who sells this premixed gas? Lewis.
Ben. Not trying to start something, but have a question. Do you or is there some way to recirculate, agitate, etc to keep the oil mixed in the gas? Just curious. Another question, who sells this premixed gas? Lewis.
Lewis, we run thae tank down till its empty. Then your truly starts dumping five gallons buckets of oil into the tank. When the tanker truck fills it up the agitation caused by the high pressure hose mixes it. BTW I mis-spoke. The tank is actually 1000 gallons.
Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
This topic comes up every so often and it usually winds up with trading insults. That is too bad, because there obviously is a lot to it. There are contradictions, and lots of confusion about terminology. Some manufactureres make misleading claims and users make useless testimonials of which they are very proud. Test results are quoted, but often the control conditions are very sketchy or out of date and possibly even contrived to achieve a preconceived result.
I have noticed some carbon build up and seepage of very thick residual oil around muffler flanges. Ben suggests it had to be poor quality oils, Not so. He also suggests too rich a mixture or not operating hot enough. I could probably put a sound file on here but I dont think you would say they sound rich. The 260 tachs 16,300 and the 372, 14,200. They are modified of course.
I question whether synthetic is more resistant to all burning off with combustion than dino oil, and whether caking is more likely on extremely hot or on cold surfaces.
I will make a guess just for discussion purpose on why a higher oil mix might give better bearing life when saws are pushed to very high rpms. The needle bearing cages have to be accellerated and decellerated with high G loads as the connecting rod occillates. This force comes from the needles and is supplied by contact with the crank pin and rod end. Normally they should be rolling contact, but if the cage resistance is high enough they are forced to skid. A very little bit of oil is adequate for rolling conditions, but a heavier amount of entrained oil will resist damage better when skidding occurs.
I have noticed some carbon build up and seepage of very thick residual oil around muffler flanges. Ben suggests it had to be poor quality oils, Not so. He also suggests too rich a mixture or not operating hot enough. I could probably put a sound file on here but I dont think you would say they sound rich. The 260 tachs 16,300 and the 372, 14,200. They are modified of course.
I question whether synthetic is more resistant to all burning off with combustion than dino oil, and whether caking is more likely on extremely hot or on cold surfaces.
I will make a guess just for discussion purpose on why a higher oil mix might give better bearing life when saws are pushed to very high rpms. The needle bearing cages have to be accellerated and decellerated with high G loads as the connecting rod occillates. This force comes from the needles and is supplied by contact with the crank pin and rod end. Normally they should be rolling contact, but if the cage resistance is high enough they are forced to skid. A very little bit of oil is adequate for rolling conditions, but a heavier amount of entrained oil will resist damage better when skidding occurs.
Fish
Tree Freak
Actually, since I work on a vast array of equipment, I use 40:1. But I agreed
with Dagger, since he had actually done tests to prove his point. In the long run,
I doubt it makes too much difference, as dirt ingestion and lean seizures are usually
the cause of major trouble, not fuel/oil ratios, octane, synthetic vs dino, and on,
and on, ......................
The best part of these threads is the fact that after all of this back and forth
discussion, no one involved will ever change their mind, but it makes for fun
reading for everyone else.
So Ben, do you offer any benefits, or do your employees have to sneak into
Canada for health care? I would make an excellant bait sales man.
with Dagger, since he had actually done tests to prove his point. In the long run,
I doubt it makes too much difference, as dirt ingestion and lean seizures are usually
the cause of major trouble, not fuel/oil ratios, octane, synthetic vs dino, and on,
and on, ......................
The best part of these threads is the fact that after all of this back and forth
discussion, no one involved will ever change their mind, but it makes for fun
reading for everyone else.
So Ben, do you offer any benefits, or do your employees have to sneak into
Canada for health care? I would make an excellant bait sales man.
Fish
Tree Freak
Right now I am only an apprentice though.
Sneaking into Canada fro healthcare would be like sneaking into Walmart to steal a Poulan wood shark...Not worth the effort.
Frank, not all synthetic oils(or dino oils) are created equal. The thick residul you are noticing are a result of incomplete combustion. I have pics on here some where of the muffler of my 260 and my Stihl back pack blower.
Both are bone dry. I also have a Dirt bike in my garage that has a muffler so clean when you stick a finger in it it comes out clean. BTW have you considered your gasoline and the ambiant temperatures effect on complete combustion? Have you also considered that most petrol based oil have HIGHER end point base stocks(ie bright stock) which really lead to spooge(the condition you describe.
Both are bone dry. I also have a Dirt bike in my garage that has a muffler so clean when you stick a finger in it it comes out clean. BTW have you considered your gasoline and the ambiant temperatures effect on complete combustion? Have you also considered that most petrol based oil have HIGHER end point base stocks(ie bright stock) which really lead to spooge(the condition you describe.
klickitatsacket
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Hold up on the changing your mind. I am actually concidering the arguements for 40:1. Some of the arguements make sense. I will probably play with it in a test saw to what it does and to see if I can see a differance. I have a local wood cutter I hand my test saws to. This guy is the most ambitious drunk you ever met. He makes his living cutting wood year round. I sharpen about 20 chains a weak for him. If his chains are any indication of how he abuses a saw you might question my sanity when I send out a modified saw with him. I figure if it will handle his abuse, cutting then a Logger getting it in his hands is a piece of cake. On amother note; Has any one ever heard of a 2 roke additive that comes out of Idaho? I heard of it one time but can not remember the name. If I remember it right it was something to do with "diamond" in the name. Any how when I had just quit with a local Husqvarna dealer I came in to pick up my tools and one of our regulars who was running a modified 372XP built in the back brought it in at the 6 month mark for a tear down just to check it out. (He is a full time Faller) I was not in on the whole conversation but came in on the end of it. When the cylinder was taken off the cross hatcing was still visable. This is a saw that runs 30 plus hours a week for 6 months. The owner of the saw was taling about some additive that they add a teaspoon of to every gallon of gas. Any how I was not the most welcomed toward the end because I left to open my own shop, and I did not get the name of the additive. Have any of you ever heard of it or know what I am talking about? I have looked every where on the net and can't find it. Any help would be greatly appriciated. Thanks.
One last thing. Certain saws, like dolmar 7900 burn clean on anything while others like the stihl 044 and 026 are much more finicky. The muffler outlet on my 7900 is dry at all times while the outlets of my stihls will get wet if you are using them in light load conditions like limbing or cutting cookies.
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