hey fallers, 45 or sideslope?

[Metals406]

scarrification actually stimulates regeneration - lol.....welll i guess that statement is true in the sense that you cant have regeneration unless something is destroyed. but if your implying that driving the dozer around smashing stuff is actually good for the envirorment...no.:spam:

Well, you'd be wrong youngster. . . You need to go talk to a Forester, and get some edu-mah-cation.

In a Conifer Ecosystem (forest) the "duff" can be very, very deep. . . A collection of needles so thick, it doesn't allow oxygenation of the soil, and also causes a hyper acidic state.

By moving the duff around, and smashing and mixing rotten wood, and mixing dirt with the duff and rot. . . The acidic value drops, oxygen is introduced, and degradation of the once acid rich duff can occur. Think of "tilling the garden for planting, and composting". Also think about what happens when you mix Carbon and Nitrogen rich elements with highly acidic elements. . . The acid is deluded or "balanced".

In a Deciduous Ecosystem, you still have a problem with lack of oxygenation, but some composting does occur naturally. . . But the lack of infused oxygen make it a long, long process. Leaves aren't as acidic as needles, but high in carbon, and take longer to degrade on their own.

Read up on composting, what gases are released, what needs to happen for a good decomposition (ie. tuning the compost) and other factors. Also, think about why you till a garden, or turn over the soil in a farmer's field.

Long story short, you're way off when you say scarifying and mixing the ground with logging equipment is "Not good for the environment". . . It is good.

 

[Metals406]

thanks metals that clears things up,down here we have very few streams or rivers,this is probably why i havent heard of smzs before.we have a "river"here called the rio penasco,if you saw it you would laugh,its maybe couple feet deep and 4'wide that is our river,probably not even a stream in your part of the world...thanks

Yeah, we'd call that a stream, or creek (crick). LOL

SMZ's are a huge pain in the ass. . . On a sale, you can't even get a pine-needle or bow in a ditch that has water in it 4 hours out of a year. . . Apparently, it's bad for the environment. LOL

The joke was, "HEY, who put some environment in our Environment!?"

 

[slowp]

scarrification actually stimulates regeneration - lol.....welll i guess that statement is true in the sense that you cant have regeneration unless something is destroyed. but if your implying that driving the dozer around smashing stuff is actually good for the envirorment...no.:spam:

It depends. It depends on the type of soil and what you are trying to achieve. You have to realize that in forestry, one size DOES NOT fit all. So while you may not want to run equipment all over on clay soils, on sandier or our pumice, it doesn't really hurt. In fact, our specialists tend to believe in One size does fit all, but we folks who get out on the ground, will note that the larger, faster growing trees are growing in the old skid trails. I'm not talking saplings, I'm talking 24 inch DBHers. So, since the NEPA (environmental document) requires that we use the old skid roads, we are cutting the biggest, best trees in the unit. Doesn't make sense, but we are not the "specialists".

On the east side, Ponderosa Pine will successfully come back if mineral soil is exposed. There's a lot of other species that do the same thing in other parts of the country, with different soil and climate conditions.

We are also required to subsoil skid trails. But, and with the blessing of the higher paid timber people, I end up waiving this. Often, it pops the roots of the leave trees and they are apt to blow over in the first big storm. And, once again, pummy soils are hard to compact. Sometimes we mitigate ourselves into bigger problems.

We do require the logger to lay out skid trail locations prior to cutting, and that they only use 10% of the ground, (feller bunchers can travel off them) and that the skidder stay on the trails.

In the old days, we did high lead on just about all the ground here. That way logging could go on into the rainy season. That would be 9 months out of the year. You can't high lead in a thinning, and skyline takes lift (good slope) so we are using more "ground based" methods.

So, before you make a broad statement, better research it a bit more.

 

[bullbuck]

Yeah, we'd call that a stream, or creek (crick). LOL

SMZ's are a huge pain in the ass. . . On a sale, you can't even get a pine-needle or bow in a ditch that has water in it 4 hours out of a year. . . Apparently, it's bad for the environment. LOL

The joke was, "HEY, who put some environment in our Environment!?"

sounds like they would have to be some damn nice logs to even bother going through the trouble of getting in a smz,probably better just to keep moving right on around, too many restrictions,and also the university has done some studies in these parts also,and they say dozers are better than rubber tires because it mulches instead of compressing the topsoil,and they say the ground vegetation return when the topsoil is exposed and the canopy opened up,wheras befor us getting in there it would be say 6 inches of needle litter no greens,couple years later its green all in there,good stuff

 

[Metals406]

sounds like they would have to be some damn nice logs to even bother going through the trouble of getting in a smz,probably better just to keep moving right on around, too many restrictions,and also the university has done some studies in these parts also,and they say dozers are better than rubber tires because it mulches instead of compressing the topsoil,and they say the ground vegetation return when the topsoil is exposed and the canopy opened up,wheras befor us getting in there it would be say 6 inches of needle litter no greens,couple years later its green all in there,good stuff

The problem we had was our father-son team that did the falling. . . I think combined age, they were 750 years old.

The son is the one that came within 3-4 feet of pile-driving my head in with a Larch.

They would cut along an SMZ boundary, and fall the dang trees across the boundary line. . . Guess they figured it was okay, cause the tops weren't actually "in" the ditch. We all know branches go flying when you drop a tree, and bows' and needles, and branches, and tops were flying into the run-off area (no water that time of year, only a little during run-off).

The Forester saw it, and had a mini-flip out. . . He red flagged all the stuff for removal. . . Poor SOB must have used up 7 rolls of flagging! LOL

We lowly Hookers got earmarked to go clean up. . . We were already set up 200 yards down the road. The Forester came up, and told the boss to remove everything he flagged before we continued on. It took three of us 3/4 of a day to clean. . . The boss was not happy.

Seems to me that incident was the straw that broke the camels back with the father-son team. . . Dave quit calling them to fall. If I remember right, the father had also dropped a big ass Ponderosa right in a stinky, old pond. . . Guess who got to wade through butt-smelly water/mud to butt hook that one? . . And I had to wade even deeper to collect branches and bows.

You're right. . . Avoid the SMZ boundaries--less work to do.

 

[BarkBuster20]

It depends. It depends on the type of soil and what you are trying to achieve. You have to realize that in forestry, one size DOES NOT fit all. So while you may not want to run equipment all over on clay soils, on sandier or our pumice, it doesn't really hurt. In fact, our specialists tend to believe in One size does fit all, but we folks who get out on the ground, will note that the larger, faster growing trees are growing in the old skid trails. I'm not talking saplings, I'm talking 24 inch DBHers. So, since the NEPA (environmental document) requires that we use the old skid roads, we are cutting the biggest, best trees in the unit. Doesn't make sense, but we are not the "specialists".

On the east side, Ponderosa Pine will successfully come back if mineral soil is exposed. There's a lot of other species that do the same thing in other parts of the country, with different soil and climate conditions.

We are also required to subsoil skid trails. But, and with the blessing of the higher paid timber people, I end up waiving this. Often, it pops the roots of the leave trees and they are apt to blow over in the first big storm. And, once again, pummy soils are hard to compact. Sometimes we mitigate ourselves into bigger problems.

We do require the logger to lay out skid trail locations prior to cutting, and that they only use 10% of the ground, (feller bunchers can travel off them) and that the skidder stay on the trails.

In the old days, we did high lead on just about all the ground here. That way logging could go on into the rainy season. That would be 9 months out of the year. You can't high lead in a thinning, and skyline takes lift (good slope) so we are using more "ground based" methods.

So, before you make a broad statement, better research it a bit more.

okay im not saying a dozer trail doesnt have any positive consequinces what i am saying is, that as a whole it does more harm than good. im all for logging and i have no problem with dozers. but if you think as your driving your dozer around your healing the enviorment or something your delusional. when you make a clearcut, well its pretty hard on the land. yes it will recover, but if the clearcut hadnt been there, well there would be nothing to heal from. do you think before man started logging off forests, the land was unhealthy from lack of dozer tracks? dont call me uninformed and take my statements out of context. you saying a dozer is good for the land or habitat is stupid. why do you think they do heli logging? nature has its own way of, regenerating the land such as wildfires, so if you say in some situations its alright and its not doing much harm, actually helps some, thats fine. but if you want to state how inaccurate my statement is, well then stating that its good for the enviorment is just as inaccurate because one size dont fit all.

This is what most of you have a problem with, you think that there is no aspect of logging that is bad for the land, well there is. That doesnt mean there isnt good aspects either, but any time you clearcut a healthy forest, it will have negative repricutions, its our job to make sure the postitive outweighs the negative. if you cant understand this...:monkey:

 

[BarkBuster20]

Well, you'd be wrong youngster. . . You need to go talk to a Forester, and get some edu-mah-cation.

In a Conifer Ecosystem (forest) the "duff" can be very, very deep. . . A collection of needles so thick, it doesn't allow oxygenation of the soil, and also causes a hyper acidic state.

By moving the duff around, and smashing and mixing rotten wood, and mixing dirt with the duff and rot. . . The acidic value drops, oxygen is introduced, and degradation of the once acid rich duff can occur. Think of "tilling the garden for planting, and composting". Also think about what happens when you mix Carbon and Nitrogen rich elements with highly acidic elements. . . The acid is deluded or "balanced".

In a Deciduous Ecosystem, you still have a problem with lack of oxygenation, but some composting does occur naturally. . . But the lack of infused oxygen make it a long, long process. Leaves aren't as acidic as needles, but high in carbon, and take longer to degrade on their own.

Read up on composting, what gases are released, what needs to happen for a good decomposition (ie. tuning the compost) and other factors. Also, think about why you till a garden, or turn over the soil in a farmer's field.

Long story short, you're way off when you say scarifying and mixing the ground with logging equipment is "Not good for the environment". . . It is good.

so why do you think it national forests they do heli logging. do you think heli logging is actually worse for the enviorment?

 

[BarkBuster20]

well that depends on where and what you are doing i suppose?and also who has"researched"the"facts".we subcontract logging in these parts,and alot of the sales we do are in thick stands of aspen,"they"have decide that the doug fir is choking out the aspen stands,and i agree,its pretty obvious really,but they have done studies even our local college students got in on it,and they want us romping around in the aspen thickets because aspens regenerate from the roots,and it all makes perfect sense until the elk stop in and eat all of the new growth,like i always say "dont ask me i just work here",or if its really bad i say "dont ask me i dont even work here"plans vary per said forest,in my opinion for overall forest health we do a good job round these parts

if they were smart theyd cut out the aspen and let the dougs grow :greenchainsaw: much funner felling.

 

[Metals406]

okay im not saying a dozer trail doesnt have any positive consequinces what i am saying is, that as a whole it does more harm than good. im all for logging and i have no problem with dozers. but if you think as your driving your dozer around your healing the enviorment or something your delusional. when you make a clearcut, well its pretty hard on the land. yes it will recover, but if the clearcut hadnt been there, well there would be nothing to heal from. do you think before man started logging off forests, the land was unhealthy from lack of dozer tracks? dont call me uninformed and take my statements out of context. you saying a dozer is good for the land or habitat is stupid. why do you think they do heli logging? nature has its own way of, regenerating the land such as wildfires, so if you say in some situations its alright and its not doing much harm, actually helps some, thats fine. but if you want to state how inaccurate my statement is, well then stating that its good for the enviorment is just as inaccurate because one size dont fit all.

This is what most of you have a problem with, you think that there is no aspect of logging that is bad for the land, well there is. That doesnt mean there isnt good aspects either, but any time you clearcut a healthy forest, it will have negative repricutions, its our job to make sure the postitive outweighs the negative. if you cant understand this...:monkey:

You sure do have a lot of uniformed things to say for a youngster. . . They don't use heli-logging for the benefits of the environment. . . It has everything to do with accessibility.

Are you aware how much more it costs to heli-log? If another process can be used, it surely will be.

As far as clear-cuts, I can walk you out to hundreds of them here, that are completely regenerated in my lifetime. So spouting off about the evils of clear-cutting just shows your ignorance, or age, or both.

You've been in the woods maybe, what--2 years?

I've read a lot of your posts buster, and almost every one is full of arrogance. You espouse to be the greatest timber faller of all time, and yet you make statements, or ask questions, that show what you really know. Get a little time and knowledge under your belt, before you start preaching the gospel of logging.

 

[BarkBuster20]

You sure do have a lot of uniformed things to say for a youngster. . . They don't use heli-logging for the benefits of the environment. . . It has everything to do with accessibility.

Are you aware how much more it costs to heli-log? If another process can be used, it surely will be.

As far as clear-cuts, I can walk you out to hundreds of them here, that are completely regenerated in my lifetime. So spouting off about the evils of clear-cutting just shows your ignorance, or age, or both.

You've been in the woods maybe, what--2 years?

I've read a lot of your posts buster, and almost every one is full of arrogance. You espouse to be the greatest timber faller of all time, and yet you make statements, or ask questions, that show what you really know. Get a little time and knowledge under your belt, before you start preaching the gospel of logging.

if you can find where i stated clearcutting is evil? i simply stated that any time you clear cut a healthy forest it has negative consequinces, not to say they dont recover. and when did i preach the gospel of logging? it seems to me your taking what i say out of context, trying to make yourself sound more informed. playing devils advocate if you will. and you never answerd the majority of my questions, you picked at certain parts of my post, the parts you could rebute and look smarter while doing it. why cant you address the other parts? i am not saying i am the master logger, or that i know how to log everything the best way. for example any time i say there is anything negative to do with logging, you cant address that. you simply state the good side to it without aknoledging the bad. obviously im not trying to say logging is bad and shouldnt be done. i just believe most of you old timers refuse to aknoledge any negative aspects of logging, which in fact hurts the cause.

and no there are no clearcuts fully regenerated in your lifetime thats a lie it takes most forests well over a lifetime to be in its prime. but then again a lifetime isnt that long. if you cut a healthy forest down it will take at least 100 years to be really regenerated, and being fully regenerated is totally different than having a harvestable 40 yo stand of timber.

and who the hell are you to say im not the greatest timber faller of all time.
(im not, yet) but thats not to say i couldnt saw circles around your old ass

 

[Gologit]

okay im not saying a dozer trail doesnt have any positive consequinces what i am saying is, that as a whole it does more harm than good. im all for logging and i have no problem with dozers. but if you think as your driving your dozer around your healing the enviorment or something your delusional. when you make a clearcut, well its pretty hard on the land. yes it will recover, but if the clearcut hadnt been there, well there would be nothing to heal from. do you think before man started logging off forests, the land was unhealthy from lack of dozer tracks? dont call me uninformed and take my statements out of context. you saying a dozer is good for the land or habitat is stupid. why do you think they do heli logging? nature has its own way of, regenerating the land such as wildfires, so if you say in some situations its alright and its not doing much harm, actually helps some, thats fine. but if you want to state how inaccurate my statement is, well then stating that its good for the enviorment is just as inaccurate because one size dont fit all.

This is what most of you have a problem with, you think that there is no aspect of logging that is bad for the land, well there is. That doesnt mean there isnt good aspects either, but any time you clearcut a healthy forest, it will have negative repricutions, its our job to make sure the postitive outweighs the negative. if you cant understand this...:monkey:

Are you against clear cuts? If so, why? I'm not bagging on you, at least not
yet. But if you find clear cuts offensive for some reason there must be some solid logic and reasoning behind your opinion. I'd like to hear it.

 

[BarkBuster20]

Are you against clear cuts? If so, why? I'm not bagging on, at least not
yet. But if you find clear cuts offensive for some reason there must be some solid logic and reasoning behind your opinion. I'd like to hear it.

I have nothing against clearcuts... why do i have to have something against clearcuts just because i aknoledge that its not particularly good for the particular peice of land thats getting a prime forest taken off it. lets get this out of the way right now. I DO NOT HATE CLEARCUTS, I DO NOT BELIEVE WE SHOULD STOP MAKING THEM. but do you think that a peice of land with prime timber is unhealthy? or that it somehow gets more healthy because of the clearcut? no. its done to harvest the timber, it makes sense, and it works. is there something hard to understand about this?

 

[bullbuck]

if you can find where i stated clearcutting is evil? i simply stated that any time you clear cut a healthy forest it has negative consequinces, not to say they dont recover. and when did i preach the gospel of logging? it seems to me your taking what i say out of context, trying to make yourself sound more informed. playing devils advocate if you will. and you never answerd the majority of my questions, you picked at certain parts of my post, the parts you could rebute and look smarter while doing it. why cant you address the other parts? i am not saying i am the master logger, or that i know how to log everything the best way. for example any time i say there is anything negative to do with logging, you cant address that. you simply state the good side to it without aknoledging the bad. obviously im not trying to say logging is bad and shouldnt be done. i just believe most of you old timers refuse to aknoledge any negative aspects of logging, which in fact hurts the cause.

and no there are no clearcuts fully regenerated in your lifetime thats a lie it takes most forests well over a lifetime to be in its prime. but then again a lifetime isnt that long. if you cut a healthy forest down it will take at least 100 years to be really regenerated, and being fully regenerated is totally different than having a harvestable 40 yo stand of timber.

and who the hell are you to say im not the greatest timber faller of all time.
(im not, yet) but thats not to say i couldnt saw circles around your old ass

is that you 056?,my advice to you would be get about 10 to 15 years in the industry and then see how you feel about things,you will find out it is much different than you feel now,and it will always change,i am 33 a "young un"there is alot of knowledge compiled on this site,if i were you i would try to take advantage of that and learn instead of trying to teach men,some of them 3 and 4 times your age"whats going on"

 

[Gologit]

I have nothing against clearcuts... why do i have to have something against clearcuts just because i aknoledge that its not particularly good for the particular peice of land thats getting a prime forest taken off it. lets get this out of the way right now. I DO NOT HATE CLEARCUTS, I DO NOT BELIEVE WE SHOULD STOP MAKING THEM. but do you think that a peice of land with prime timber is unhealthy? or that it somehow gets more healthy because of the clearcut? no. its done to harvest the timber, it makes sense, and it works. is there something hard to understand about this?

I'm glad to hear you say that you aren't against clear cuts. But, as far as the health of the land goes, we can often improve a future timber stand and the land itself by clear cutting. Taking out burn salvage or bug kill trees is a necessity and the best way to do it, for right now and for the future, is to clear cut.
As far as taking prime timber, as you call it, off of a piece of ground by clear cutting...I can't see where it hurts anything. I can take you to places where my grandfather clear cut in the 1940s on our own land and you'd never know anybody was even there. Even back in those days there was a good measure of respect for the ground and the resource itself. There's even more of it today.

 

[BarkBuster20]

is that you 056?,my advice to you would be get about 10 to 15 years in the industry and then see how you feel about things,you will find out it is much different than you feel now,and it will always change,i am 33 a "young un"there is alot of knowledge compiled on this site,if i were you i would try to take advantage of that and learn instead of trying to teach men,some of them 3 and 4 times your age"whats going on"

am i wrong? is logging the magical industry that does absolutely no harm to the enviorment? your starting to piss me off with this post. all i said was that there are negative aspects to logging. now why would how i feel towards the logging industry change in 15 years? i love the industry and i aspire to be a faller. infact im involved with the logging industry (on a small scale) but that isnt the point. you are taking what i am saying out of context. and id work your ass into th ground just so you know. dont talk down to me cause im 20. im not trying to tell anyone how it is. i just asked some simple questions that obviously got some #######s on here butt hurt.

and no this isnt 056 wtf?

 

[BarkBuster20]

I'm glad to hear you say that you aren't against clear cuts. But, as far as the health of the land goes, we can often improve a future timber stand and the land itself by clear cutting. Taking out burn salvage or bug kill trees is a necessity and the best way to do it, for right now and for the future, is to clear cut.
As far as taking prime timber, as you call it, off of a piece of ground by clear cutting...I can't see where it hurts anything. I can take you to places where my grandfather clear cut in the 1940s on our own land and you'd never know anybody was even there. Even back in those days there was a good measure of respect for the ground and the resource itself. There's even more of it today.

dude i live in the PNW iv seen a million clearcuts and iv seen every stage from jack firs to reprod up to a nice stand of timber and iv seen a few stands of old growth so even though im 20 i can see how the process works. im not stupid. and yeah cutting diseased trees is good for improving future stands. and your right about it not doing much harm taking out prime timber but it certainly dont help it, and yes i know the land will recover, right now i can step out my door and look at huge expanses of timber, clearcuts, jack firs, reprod, and fields. i walk through the #### all the time. i understand how it works.
another thing to clarify before somone takes it out of context I ALSO HAVE NO PROBLEM CUTTING PRIME TIMBER

 

[bullbuck]

am i wrong? is logging the magical industry that does absolutely no harm to the enviorment? your starting to piss me off with this post. all i said was that there are negative aspects to logging. now why would how i feel towards the logging industry change in 15 years? i love the industry and i aspire to be a faller. infact im involved with the logging industry (on a small scale) but that isnt the point. you are taking what i am saying out of context. and id work your ass into th ground just so you know. dont talk down to me cause im 20. im not trying to tell anyone how it is. i just asked some simple questions that obviously got some #######s on here butt hurt.

look dude,i am not trying to start up an online brawl,and we could type till our keyboards smoked,but not being in the same area we will likely never know who could outwork who,but one thing i do know that hands on experience is irreplaceable,what i meant was log for fifteen years then backtrack check in and see results,i do this often in this area..and the benefits far outweigh the degredation,there is also some facts to prove that,so smartars statements like "driving my bulldozer around improving the environment"kind of piss me off to bub,because sometimes that is exactly what i am doing,not all the time but overall i am proud of what i do.and i would like to add i hope you have the best of luck entering te industry there is alot to learn

 

[Gologit]

dude i live in the PNW iv seen a million clearcuts and iv seen every stage from jack firs to reprod up to a nice stand of timber and iv seen a few stands of old growth so even though im 20 i can see how the process works. im not stupid. and yeah cutting diseased trees is good for improving future stands. and your right about it not doing much harm taking out prime timber but it certainly dont help it, and yes i know the land will recover, right now i can step out my door and look at huge expanses of timber, clearcuts, jack firs, reprod, and fields. i walk through the #### all the time. i understand how it works.
another thing to clarify before somone takes it out of context I ALSO HAVE NO PROBLEM CUTTING PRIME TIMBER

Well hell, kid...maybe you should go to work in the woods. Be a faller and all that. With your amazing store of hard earned knowledge, your humble attitude, and your willingness to take criticism you'd be everybody's favorite newbie. For a day or so anyway...until they got through whacking you around and making fun of you and you either had to shape up or draw your time.

For what it's worth to you, and I don't expect it to be worth much, if somebody disagrees with you you might be wrong. If the whole damn crew disagrees with you are wrong. Keep your ears open a little more and hold back on the smart-mouth attitude...you'll go farther. But I bet you hear that same advice a lot.

 

[Metals406]

if you can find where i stated clearcutting is evil? i simply stated that any time you clear cut a healthy forest it has negative consequinces, not to say they dont recover. and when did i preach the gospel of logging? it seems to me your taking what i say out of context, trying to make yourself sound more informed. playing devils advocate if you will. and you never answerd the majority of my questions, you picked at certain parts of my post, the parts you could rebute and look smarter while doing it. why cant you address the other parts? i am not saying i am the master logger, or that i know how to log everything the best way. for example any time i say there is anything negative to do with logging, you cant address that. you simply state the good side to it without aknoledging the bad. obviously im not trying to say logging is bad and shouldnt be done. i just believe most of you old timers refuse to aknoledge any negative aspects of logging, which in fact hurts the cause.

and no there are no clearcuts fully regenerated in your lifetime thats a lie it takes most forests well over a lifetime to be in its prime. but then again a lifetime isnt that long. if you cut a healthy forest down it will take at least 100 years to be really regenerated, and being fully regenerated is totally different than having a harvestable 40 yo stand of timber.

and who the hell are you to say im not the greatest timber faller of all time.
(im not, yet) but thats not to say i couldnt saw circles around your old ass

WOW. . . You're quite the angry little beaver. I don't espouse to know it all, and if I sound smarter than you, it's probably because I am. . . Hence the age thing. I've had a few more years on the planet to pick some things up, just as you'll have the chance to do. Bob is older than I am, and is smarter for it. . . He also has waaay more woods-time than I have. So I listen to Bob, and slowp, and others with more experience.

Do you talk to your boss like this? You make a lot of assumptions, and it's not our fault you write what you do.

As far as me being an "old ass". . . I'll be 32 in October. LOL Just blink your eyes, and you'll be there too. Your piss:vinegar ratio is awful high! LOL

As far as answering questions, how much time you got in the woods?

I have nothing against clearcuts... why do i have to have something against clearcuts just because i aknoledge that its not particularly good for the particular peice of land thats getting a prime forest taken off it. lets get this out of the way right now. I DO NOT HATE CLEARCUTS, I DO NOT BELIEVE WE SHOULD STOP MAKING THEM. but do you think that a peice of land with prime timber is unhealthy? or that it somehow gets more healthy because of the clearcut? no. its done to harvest the timber, it makes sense, and it works. is there something hard to understand about this?

Yes, a piece of land with "prime" timber can be very unhealthy. . . And yes, it can become more healthy with logging.

am i wrong? is logging the magical industry that does absolutely no harm to the enviorment? your starting to piss me off with this post. all i said was that there are negative aspects to logging. now why would how i feel towards the logging industry change in 15 years? i love the industry and i aspire to be a faller. infact im involved with the logging industry (on a small scale) but that isnt the point. you are taking what i am saying out of context. and id work your ass into th ground just so you know. dont talk down to me cause im 20. im not trying to tell anyone how it is. i just asked some simple questions that obviously got some #######s on here butt hurt.

and no this isnt 056 wtf?

Yes, you are wrong. . . On many, many things. And who's getting butt-hurt? . . It certainly isn't me. . . I'm not the one raving like a lunatic.

dude i live in the PNW iv seen a million clearcuts and iv seen every stage from jack firs to reprod up to a nice stand of timber and iv seen a few stands of old growth so even though im 20 i can see how the process works. im not stupid. and yeah cutting diseased trees is good for improving future stands. and your right about it not doing much harm taking out prime timber but it certainly dont help it, and yes i know the land will recover, right now i can step out my door and look at huge expanses of timber, clearcuts, jack firs, reprod, and fields. i walk through the #### all the time. i understand how it works.
another thing to clarify before somone takes it out of context I ALSO HAVE NO PROBLEM CUTTING PRIME TIMBER

No, you don't. . .

 

[slowp]

Hey Barkbuster.

Well kiddo, and you WILL be called a kid if you work on a crew, welcome to our world. You are an example, all though mild, of the constant criticism we get from every know it all because I saw it from my car, or I read a couple of papers about a forest in lower Hiburnia and that applies everywhere.

We might be a bit touchy. We've got experience and some education and yet, anybody that wants to seems to think they are an expert on forestry. It is kind of like me saying I watched ER so I am an expert on surgery.

If you want to start over again, just what are your specific questions? I guess I didn't read them. We've got folks here from all parts of the US to answer them. I'd be one of your PNW answerers, if I know it.

And yes, helicopters are used because we can't build a road to get a yarder or skidder in. Actually, using a helicopter means the trees will have to have more volume to make it economically feasible. If they are small trees, more will have to be cut. Those helicopters are not cheap to fly. They take as large or larger size of a landing (think little clearcut) as a large yarder or skidder side.

Nor do they waste the fuel and $$$ to go chase mountain goats...that was a serious concern of an "expert." See all the BS one has to put up with? Well, it gets to a point and then I get very cranky. And I'm ancient in age to you, but younger than Gologit... Let me see, I started planting trees in 1976....