Homelite Chainsaws

[a. palmer jr.]

finally getting around to replacing the p&c on my C5 (thanks aaron for the new p&c) and this is what i found. rebuilt saw has about 4 - 5 hours on it. the plug doesn't look that bad but is still oilly. the p&c are both real oily. the combusion chamber was spotless when previously assembled. this was rebuilt with new rings and new base gasket. some questions
any problem putting it back together w/o base gasket? (this one came apart during disassembly) i haven't checked new squish yet but assuming it is > 0.02"????
is the apparent blow-by due to not being broken in or some flaked off cylinder liner or large ring gap or lean mix or ????
when i checked the ring gap on the new rings prior to assembly it was rather large. even considering the extra space for the pins (sorry, didn't remeasure yet). is it possible to get some new oversized rings and file them down to obtain a real tight gap? what would be a good gap.
i know these are sposed to have pretty good compression so the torque can present itself. this one tended to bog when leaned on, hence the quick teardown and rebuild.
or, is this saw just a money pit?
really like it but can't put up with a ##### saw.
whatchuguys think?

It's not only possible to put oversize filed down rings in them it's been done many times, once or twice by me. Buying the first oversize and filing the ends down increases the tension on the ring to cylinder wall. It's a little harder to do on a saw because of the locating pin but can be done if you're careful. There's a formula for figuring up ring gap, I think you can google it.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

If you have it too lean on the H side it will fall on its face in the cut. They like to run rich.

Comp could be low. At 90 PSI it will start and idle fine, but not have much 'zip'.

I checked the compression this morning..it had 95psi. So I guess that's why she doesn't have much power. Oh, well, at least it starts and runs. If I need to do some cutting I can always grab something else...

 

[sawnami]

finally getting around to replacing the p&c on my C5 (thanks aaron for the new p&c) and this is what i found. rebuilt saw has about 4 - 5 hours on it. the plug doesn't look that bad but is still oilly. the p&c are both real oily. the combusion chamber was spotless when previously assembled. this was rebuilt with new rings and new base gasket. some questions
any problem putting it back together w/o base gasket? (this one came apart during disassembly) i haven't checked new squish yet but assuming it is > 0.02"????
is the apparent blow-by due to not being broken in or some flaked off cylinder liner or large ring gap or lean mix or ????
when i checked the ring gap on the new rings prior to assembly it was rather large. even considering the extra space for the pins (sorry, didn't remeasure yet). is it possible to get some new oversized rings and file them down to obtain a real tight gap? what would be a good gap.
i know these are sposed to have pretty good compression so the torque can present itself. this one tended to bog when leaned on, hence the quick teardown and rebuild.
or, is this saw just a money pit?
really like it but can't put up with a ##### saw.
whatchuguys think?

Jerry, Did you happen to check the compression before taking it apart? I had a 240 look similar to that because of retarded ignition timing due to a sheared flywheel key.

 

[Eccentric]

finally getting around to replacing the p&c on my C5 (thanks aaron for the new p&c) and this is what i found. rebuilt saw has about 4 - 5 hours on it. the plug doesn't look that bad but is still oilly. the p&c are both real oily. the combusion chamber was spotless when previously assembled. this was rebuilt with new rings and new base gasket. some questions
any problem putting it back together w/o base gasket? (this one came apart during disassembly) i haven't checked new squish yet but assuming it is > 0.02"????
is the apparent blow-by due to not being broken in or some flaked off cylinder liner or large ring gap or lean mix or ????
when i checked the ring gap on the new rings prior to assembly it was rather large. even considering the extra space for the pins (sorry, didn't remeasure yet). is it possible to get some new oversized rings and file them down to obtain a real tight gap? what would be a good gap.
i know these are sposed to have pretty good compression so the torque can present itself. this one tended to bog when leaned on, hence the quick teardown and rebuild.
or, is this saw just a money pit?
really like it but can't put up with a ##### saw.
whatchuguys think?

That's strange. That P/C looked pretty good other than some carbon staining (probably ran on 30wt at 16/1). Did you have it running rich enough that it was four stroking until heavily loaded? These saws like to run rich on the H side, and will really bog down under load if too lean. Did you clean the ring grooves in the piston before installing the new rings? It was pretty carboned up. Also, it can take time for new rings to seat, especially in a 'wear pollished' chrome bore that's had a good amount of use on it already. Also, are you sure your new rings were for a C-5/51/52/7/71/72 and not for a Zip (which has a smaller bore)?

Assemble it with no base gasket (old gasket all cleaned up) and check the squish by putting some large (.030 or bigger) rosin core solder in through the plug hole (bent so it extends to the side of the jug) and turning the engine over to 'squish' the solder. Measure the squished solder to see what the clearance is. I like to check four points (front, back, left, right). As long as you're over .020" for all measurements you're fine. Seal it up with some Threebond 1194 or Motoseal.

 

[Eccentric]

I checked the compression this morning..it had 95psi. So I guess that's why she doesn't have much power. Oh, well, at least it starts and runs. If I need to do some cutting I can always grab something else...

Joe I think I have a good spare Zip P/C. Would trade them to you for something of like value (which isn't very high....LOL). Not sure you'd want to take me up on that given Jerry's recent experience with a P/C from me however...:msp_confused:

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Joe I think I have a good spare Zip P/C. Would trade them to you for something of like value (which isn't very high....LOL). Not sure you'd want to take me up on that given Jerry's recent experience with a P/C from me however...:msp_confused:

I don't think I'm gonna take that one apart..I've got it here just for looks and probably won't cut anything bigger than a 2X4. I put a real nice looking sprocket nose bar on it and cleaned it up a bit. I had a Homelite buz that probably was in better shape than the Zip but I gave it away to a friend who's always doing things for me and I needed the space. I'll probably contact you if I change my mind. I'm thinking mine might not need anything other than a set of rings but I can easily be wrong. Thanks

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Rare Homelites question

I have a friend down the street that has a few old Homelites and since I don't know much about those old green and red Homelites I was wondering if any of them are rare or worth anything. They are similar to my Homelite Zip but had a number like D9 or something like that rather than a name. Is there anything I should be looking for? Thanks

 

[jerrycmorrow]

That's strange. That P/C looked pretty good other than some carbon staining (probably ran on 30wt at 16/1). Did you have it running rich enough that it was four stroking until heavily loaded? These saws like to run rich on the H side, and will really bog down under load if too lean. Did you clean the ring grooves in the piston before installing the new rings? It was pretty carboned up. Also, it can take time for new rings to seat, especially in a 'wear pollished' chrome bore that's had a good amount of use on it already. Also, are you sure your new rings were for a C-5/51/52/7/71/72 and not for a Zip (which has a smaller bore)?

Assemble it with no base gasket (old gasket all cleaned up) and check the squish by putting some large (.030 or bigger) rosin core solder in through the plug hole (bent so it extends to the side of the jug) and turning the engine over to 'squish' the solder. Measure the squished solder to see what the clearance is. I like to check four points (front, back, left, right). As long as you're over .020" for all measurements you're fine. Seal it up with some Threebond 1194 or Motoseal.

aaron, the p&c in the pix is not the one you sent me. your rep is still worthy.
the p&c i got from you is replacing this one. i initially had it running rich during early breakin but had recently leaned it out. might've had it too lean but from looking at the p&c i don't think so. i did clean the grooves out before installing the new rings. i also lightly took some 400 grit paper after the bore. i'd have thought that 5 hours of good hard use would've been enough to set the rings; maybe not. either way i wanted to replace the p&c cause this cylinder had some "minor" flaking of the liner. i'm thinking that might have contributed to the blow by. or maybe it just never seated.
the rings came in an original homelite sleeve with the proper part number on it; for what its worth that's as sure as i can be.
i've assembled other saws w/o a base gasket and never had any problems; just checking the specific model for any peculiarities.
thanks for your comments

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Jerry, Did you happen to check the compression before taking it apart? I had a 240 look similar to that because of retarded ignition timing due to a sheared flywheel key.

steve, didn't check compression before disassembly. sad to say (i'm somewhat embarassed) but i still haven't acquired a compression tester. seems there's always something else i need (want) to spend the $$$ on. gonna have to quit buying saws and spend the $$ on some testing equipment. after running your old homie at last fall's gtg i was convinced there was something amiss. yours totally exhibited some grunt; mine didn't. didn't take much to bog it down. the flywheel key is in good shape; no kinks, breaks, or bends so the timing should be okay. thanks

 

[Junorr500]

Metering lever height set wrong.................or possibly you have the metering chamber gasket and diaphragm order wrong. Gasket should go on first, followed by the diaphragm. Other possiblility is that the needle isn't seating right with the seat (either grit holding it open, or the seat is damaged). With the carb all assembled, put a piece of fuel line on the inlet barb and presurize it with your mouth (or with a low pressure pump and about 5 pounds of air). Should hold. Is your carb a Walbro or a Zama (can't remember if you stated..........and that saw could have either)...

http://www.walbro.com/media/21907/WTseries.pdf

It's a hs125a. Tilloston. Still flooding I think. Tries to go but just not staying lit. Fuel pouring out of front of carb. There is a port below the fuel line on the back or reed valve side of the carb. It looks like it should have a plug in it but it doesn't. Welch plug size about 1/8" deep with a small port hole continuing from that. Don't know what it is. Maby a return port? Anyway getting frustrated. Can't figure it out. Only thing i can think of is that the needle is not seating but I have the arm adjusted to just below the housing.

 

[Junorr500]

It's a hs125a. Tilloston. Still flooding I think. Tries to go but just not staying lit. Fuel pouring out of front of carb. There is a port below the fuel line on the back or reed valve side of the carb. It looks like it should have a plug in it but it doesn't. Welch plug size about 1/8" deep with a small port hole continuing from that. Don't know what it is. Maby a return port? Anyway getting frustrated. Can't figure it out. Only thing i can think of is that the needle is not seating but I have the arm adjusted to just below the housing.

Checked it again. Made sure the gaskets were in right order. Put lever even with housing and its still flooding fuel out of it.

 

[homelitejim]

C-5

I have had a few of these, they love to run pig rich in the wood, I won't even tune them on the bench anymore, they have to be buried to get a good tune or they cut like s#it. They perform best with a 20 inch hard nose bar and .404 skip. I have 2 here now but plan on using them to rehab a C-9 I just acquired, it is hard to run a C-5 when a C-7 or C-9 is near by.

 

[fossil]

Checked it again. Made sure the gaskets were in right order. Put lever even with housing and its still flooding fuel out of it.

Here's the Tillotson manual for the HS series

http://www.tillotson.ie/docs/techinfo_HS_US.pdf

 

[67L36Driver]

It could just be the lighting for the camera but, that plug looks lean for having run four hours.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

yeah the ceramic was pretty clean whereas the rest of it was dripping.
right now i'm trying to decide if i want to customize some rings for this beast. measured everything last night. could only measure at the bottom of the bore since i only have dial calipers.
measured 90* apart i got 2.01 and 2.03 on the jug (51.3mm). i'm figuring its probly a little larger up in the working area so what i list below should probly be adjusted accordingly.
ring thickness - 0.061" (1.55mm)
ring gap is ~0.102"
pin dimension - ~0.065"
that leaves an effective gap of 0.102 - 0.065 = 0.037"
given the prevailing wisdom that ring gap should be jug diameter x 0.005 i should be getting ~0.0101"
my effective gap is over 3 times the "desired" gap.
is this normal for the C5?
could i expect to gain any noticeable compression by filing down a 51.3mm x 1.5mm caber ring to obtain an effective gap of 0.01"?
has anyone done this?
any issues?
will the bottom end take the extra compression?
also, has anyone modified a notched set of rings for this saw?
etc.

 

[Junorr500]

Here's the Tillotson manual for the HS series

http://www.tillotson.ie/docs/techinfo_HS_US.pdf

Yep I've read it. Still don't know what to do. Time to throw it it the spare pile I think. Could it still be a problem with the reed valves?

 

[paccity]

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Yep I've read it. Still don't know what to do. Time to throw it it the spare pile I think. Could it still be a problem with the reed valves?

You can usually tell by looking if they're damaged unless someone has attempted an unauthorized fix.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

yeah the ceramic was pretty clean whereas the rest of it was dripping.
right now i'm trying to decide if i want to customize some rings for this beast. measured everything last night. could only measure at the bottom of the bore since i only have dial calipers.
measured 90* apart i got 2.01 and 2.03 on the jug (51.3mm). i'm figuring its probly a little larger up in the working area so what i list below should probly be adjusted accordingly.
ring thickness - 0.061" (1.55mm)
ring gap is ~0.102"
pin dimension - ~0.065"
that leaves an effective gap of 0.102 - 0.065 = 0.037"
given the prevailing wisdom that ring gap should be jug diameter x 0.005 i should be getting ~0.0101"
my effective gap is over 3 times the "desired" gap.
is this normal for the C5?
could i expect to gain any noticeable compression by filing down a 51.3mm x 1.5mm caber ring to obtain an effective gap of 0.01"?
has anyone done this?
any issues?
will the bottom end take the extra compression?
also, has anyone modified a notched set of rings for this saw?
etc.

bump.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

homie oil pump

have taken the oil pump off my SXLAO and cleaned it up real well. looks like the cam on the plunger is pretty well worn out. anyone got an extra, serviceable plunger?
also, should any of the components be greased when reassembling?
also, i'm guessing the worm gear is turned by friction from the clutch. correct? if not, how?