Hot saw pictures

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Mr. Cogar Do you know how old that chain was ? if it was the one that i sold you. Have you ever seen a 1/2 chain break that was stock? i have . See the problem is with the 1/2 being so heavy and the guys like your self and alot of others run there chain way to tight!! which after time will make your chain brittle. Don't hate the player hate the game

Tommmyyyyyy!!!! Hey, I didn't know you were on here. What's up with this Mr. Cogar crap?? You're absolutely right, the chain was really old. I bought it from you when it maybe had one or two filings left on it. I believe Melvin had won Albany with it a few years prior to me getting it off you. The teeth were really worn/filed back and in the run prior to it breaking, one of the cutter teeth broke off. At the time, I didn't have a spare chain so I had to run it, and it was still cutting great, but it broke half way through the third cut. Scared the ever living bejesus out of me. What was ironic is that it broke between the cutter tooth that broke off and the next tooth. I should have known better, but at the time I didn't. I'm still learning. jeez, I didn't even know the difference between a harmonic balancer and a needle valve until last year. What's that say about me?

You are absolutely right about the tightness of the chain and I agree with you whole heartedly. Further, I'm absolutely guilty of running mine too tight as I'm fearful it will come off the sproket if it's too loose (I know the logic's not there, just a dumb thing I do). And to answer your question, I have seen stock chains break. I didn't know they were stock at the time, but I do now.

Oh yeah, will Never hate the Player......I've got too much respect for him for what he can do. That last chain you did for Sully absolutely rocked. The time and commitment you must put into it is phenominal.

 

[glens]

It's called a RAVE, it is a vacuum/RPM operated variable exhaust valve. one of the the things that make those saws so powerful.

I was under the impression the purpose of that device was to widen the powerband for more tractability so the engine RPM wasn't so critical when riding the bike.  Does it actually help in a saw race?

Glen

 

[LJS]

" Does it actually help in a saw race?"

When welded wide open Glens, but your right about what it's supposed to do, just not applicable with a hot saw. You want a narrow jump on top powerband. LJS

 

[MacDaddy]

The RAVE valve is Rotax Ajustable Variable Exhaust This is to make the motor think it has a smaller exhaust port at low rpm It actualy holds some of the gasses back and actualy raises compression This also adds low end torque As the rpm goes up the valve opens and the exhaust port gets bigger and the compression actualy goes down and the motor will produce more top end power this way My friend Keith Edmondson works for Union Bay they build some of the best snowmobile motors on the market

 

[Marky Mark]

Here's what I see all to often in guys racing. They just don't have the touch.

Watch this little clip and you'll understand. Poor Gypo the brunt again he takes. I laughed so hard during the Fales Bafoon tutalige.

084 Joker

 

[thf]

LOL He is somthing LOL

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Here's what I see all to often in guys racing. They just don't have the touch.

Watch this little clip and you'll understand. Poor Gypo the brunt again he takes. I laughed so hard during the Fales Bafoon tutalige.

084 Joker

Marky,
I totally agree with you. "The Touch" is a gift that so few have. I have been around LUmbersports for in excess of 30 years. I know i'm only 34, but I went everywhere with my father and I paid attention to the chopping and sawing, even at a young age. Over the years, I've had the benefit of seeing just about all the top sawyers run their engines. Possibly, the smoothest I have ever seen was Sven Johnson. I have my memorys and I have a few old tapes of him and his change overs and timing in the wood (application of weight on the saw) was perfect.

I remember one time at Hayward, jeez, it must have been in the late 70s, possibly early 80s. It was when Bike motors were first coming out East, but no one had mastered them in races where there was a cold start and multiple cuts. The record time for three cuts on the 20" wood was right at 10 seconds. I remember Sven in the finals against his son, Ron, and Sven making the three cuts (he wasn't the fastest to the wood - Paul Cogar, Jerry Gingras, and the Helsel boys take that honor, in my opinion) in a time of 7.9 something. Over two seconds faster than the previous record.

But the record in no way showed how artful he was with the cut. He made the cuts with a relatively slow start, but the change overs were perfect, and the saw actually seem to go faster as it moved from cut to cut. After the first cut, the disc fell straight down and leaned against the block. After the the second cut, the second discs fell straight down and leaned against the block. After the final cut, the third disc fell straight down and leaned against the block. All three cuts were leaning against one another and it looked as though they had been "exacted" instead of cut by a chainsaw (in other words, they looked like one log leaning against the block).

After the cut, I went up and looked at the three discs. They were completely uniform. He even had another inch and 1/2 left consistently around the block.

That moment really impressed me. I'll never forget it. Sven Johnson had the touch. Possibly the best I've ever seen.

All the best,
Arden Cogar Jr. aka Jamie

 

[tmacie]

Jamie,
It's funny that you mention Sven. Back when I was knee high to a grasshopper (not that long ago as I'm only 23) My dad and I were watching the Stihl series on ESPN and he mentioned that I had a relative that used to compete. He said he was like my 3rd cousin or so. That person is Sven. My dad isn't a "story" teller so I fifgured it was true. When watching the series I always listened for a mention of him but never heard the name. It's funny that you mention him here. I have never traced my family tree back to see if there is actually relation there, but I'm pretty sure there is. It's cool to know maybe I have a little of the blood that made such a good sawyer.


Travis

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Jamie,
It's funny that you mention Sven. Back when I was knee high to a grasshopper (not that long ago as I'm only 23) My dad and I were watching the Stihl series on ESPN and he mentioned that I had a relative that used to compete. He said he was like my 3rd cousin or so. That person is Sven. My dad isn't a "story" teller so I fifgured it was true. When watching the series I always listened for a mention of him but never heard the name. It's funny that you mention him here. I have never traced my family tree back to see if there is actually relation there, but I'm pretty sure there is. It's cool to know maybe I have a little of the blood that made such a good sawyer.


Travis

Travis,
Just so you know a little more. I'm fairly certain that during the 1980's only two people won the hotsaw at the Lumberjack World Championships (Hayward, WI) - Sven Jonnson and his son Ron Johnson. Sven would have won the hotsaw two or three more times in the 70s as well. Also, those two won the double buck world title at least three times. I think Sven also won the overall or All Around World Champion at least one time during his career. He recently started competing again and is doing rather well for a 72 year old man.

Now lets take this one step further - the Webster County Woodchopping Festival. Possibly the most difficult hot sawing event to win in the United States (normally 40 to 60 motors with at least 20 people who "could" win it). During the 70s and first part of the 1980's Sven and Ron ran whitehead cart motors and won the event year in year out. By recollection, Sven won the Hot Saw at Webster Springs at least eight times and I think Ronny won it four times. The only person that's gotten close to that is Paul Cogar who's won it five times. If he keeps it up, Jerry Gingras could get the record for the most victorys at the WCWF. But for now, Sven still holds it.

Sven was also a very good axemen. A lot of people don't remember that about him because he was such a good sawyer (both mechanical and manual). But he has made the finals at various large events and even won the Underhand at Booneville, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm a walking encyclopedia of Lumberjack Sports. When compiling the North American Axemen's News and doing the axemensnews website I've rounded up as many programs, clippings, photos, etc. about the sport as I simply love it.

I'm here because I want to learn more about chainsaws. I read most threads that are related to racing saws, but most of it goes over my head. I'll get it someday. There's a lot really smart people on this board.

All the best,
Jamie

 

[tmacie]

Wow.....thats incredible,thanks for the info. I think I'm going to do a little research to see if the relation is really there. I have just recently become very interested in timbersports, they were cool to watch as a kid but now it seems like soemthing that I would like to take part in. I just aquired a bike motor from a friend of mine, which I hope to turn into a hotsaw. This friend is a bike/motorsports genius so I'm hoping to learn from him, what I can't learn from him I hope to learn from people I meet on this site. So far everyone has been very nice and willing to do whatever they can. If I have a question about timbersports I know who to come to!!!


Travis

 

[ccicora]

I chopped against Sven two yrs. ago at the Terryville, CT show. Yep I will admit he beat me. I was around 21 sec. and he was in the 19's. He just looked at me and said you'll get it someday.
This year I watched sven and Charlie Wojkun saw. Those guys can get it done. And I don't care if there old enough to be my grandads.

 

[husky394]

My first racing axe came from Sven, 25 years ago. A black hytest, I still have it. I met him at a Sportsmen's show in Pittsburgh, where he was doing a exhibition. I remember him saying that people wondered how sharp his axe was, and then slicing a sheet of paper with it, much to the amazment of the crowd.

 

[dneiger]

Arden back in 1980 I attended the WCWF and ran in the hot saw event I was running a Yamaha cart motor for the first time and I beleive there were 3 blocks on the stage the final day, I was nervous as a wh--- in church as I had to run against Ron Johnson and Tom Bildeaux from Minn. I thought that the only way to win that contest was to beat Ron head to head as he was holding the fast time of the contest from the previous day, If you remember me I was not the fastest guy to the wood but that day I had the motor to win and I beat Ron by a quarter of the block. I was so darn excited that I beat him that I forgot about that darn Bildeaux, doggone if he didn't beat me by 1 hundreth of a second to win the event. He was running a 111 Jonsered that I had built for him and Paul Cogar still owns. Bad enough to get beat but worse to get beat by a saw that I sold to Tom for $300. dollars. If you took Sven, Ron, Tom and Alex Bildeaux and a few of the Cogar boys you were running in tough company back then. Speaking of your Father he is the only guy I ever saw that cut the pull cord in two in mid air in a contest, he did it with that Homelite 750 I made for him. As I remember he ran the saw left handed and looked like he was never going to get it ot the wood but did amazingly well and won his share of contests. There are lots of funny stories about the old days and the more I read on the AS the more I remember. Good to here from you and I will give you a call.
Dave

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Arden back in 1980 I attended the WCWF and ran in the hot saw event I was running a Yamaha cart motor for the first time and I beleive there were 3 blocks on the stage the final day, I was nervous as a wh--- in church as I had to run against Ron Johnson and Tom Bildeaux from Minn. I thought that the only way to win that contest was to beat Ron head to head as he was holding the fast time of the contest from the previous day, If you remember me I was not the fastest guy to the wood but that day I had the motor to win and I beat Ron by a quarter of the block. I was so darn excited that I beat him that I forgot about that darn Bildeaux, doggone if he didn't beat me by 1 hundreth of a second to win the event. He was running a 111 Jonsered that I had built for him and Paul Cogar still owns. Bad enough to get beat but worse to get beat by a saw that I sold to Tom for $300. dollars. If you took Sven, Ron, Tom and Alex Bildeaux and a few of the Cogar boys you were running in tough company back then. Speaking of your Father he is the only guy I ever saw that cut the pull cord in two in mid air in a contest, he did it with that Homelite 750 I made for him. As I remember he ran the saw left handed and looked like he was never going to get it ot the wood but did amazingly well and won his share of contests. There are lots of funny stories about the old days and the more I read on the AS the more I remember. Good to here from you and I will give you a call.
Dave

Dave,
That 111 you built Tom that Paul ended up with won Webster four other times to my knowledge. Paul is so quick and smooth; give him a good motor and he's very difficult to beat.

Oh yeah, didn't you, Nancy and those handsome kids of yours stay with us that year? I remember it. I thought that Robbie did well in the handicap that year for some reason. I also thought you and Nancy came down at a different time either later that year or the following year. I remember spending a lot of time with Jimmy that year. I hope they are all doing well.

All the best,
Jamie

 

[Molecule]

clueless ...

awesome er... ?-toys ... there

i never even saw one, let alone built one, let along run one, let alone competed with one ... but if I may, I wanted to ask the pros ...

I can think through the efficiency of putting the top handle in a horizontal plane ok ... but is there a reason that all the top handles are also oriented perpendicular to the bars, such that the left-hand thumb is extended forward ?

i feel out of place to even suggest it, but might it not be the case that the "toy" is controlled during a cut from an imaginary "spot" in the back of the spine, just between the shoulder blades. That's what I saw from some of the mpgs on another thread ... that the "cut" actually comes from the "back" of the operator ... the arms function mainly as an extension of something which is happening between the shoulder blades. If in fact the whole body is involved in controlling the cut, then might not the top handle be turned to a more "least effort" position. (by "least effort" I mean most strength, e.g. more control, where it counts, from the shoulders to the saw)

only an insane newbie would even ask ... this is so far out of my league ... awesome pictures and thanks.

(P.S., as to the footware, what's the deal ... did all of you guys stubb your toes and then get mad at your foot. Personally, I still like my feet.)

 

[stihltech]

technique

I know I don't begin to compete with you guys, but I think the touch thing may have more meaning.
First year a Grizzley's I ran 15 sec in 3 cuts and came in the middle of the pack. Chris kept after me to practice with any saw I got my hands on.
Next year, I run in the top ten at Grizzley's, darn near beating a smaller bike saw with the 64. Same saw, maybe a bit more power, but no doubt technique was the difference.
The little 26 really was outclassed at Bath, but it sure is a great little saw to run and practice with.

 

[tmacie]

Jamie,
I talked with my dad today about our relation to Sven. It turns out that Sven is my dads cousin by marriage. Sven's wifes maiden name is Macie. My dad told me he used to visit them when he was younger. He hasn't talked with them in quite a while however. I told him what you had said and he wasn't suprised that Sven was still going strong.


Travis

 

[LJS]

Here's a picture of Mike Sullivan, about to run his 500 Suzuki along side of him is Rolin Eslinger, at Grassvalley Ca. Soon after Mike bought a Rotax and put on a THF filed chain and started winning, at least in the 18" to 20" wood.
2 pic. Mikey Forrester, Matt Lentz, and Gypo's brother Lee Williamson, timing Jim Taylor running his Rotax. Central Point, Ore.

 

[LJS]

Here you go ozflea!....My old 101B Kart on gas, now owned by macman. LJS

 

[MacDaddy]

good picture I would have to say maybe my favorite LOL Is that at Grassvalley