How rescueable are we?
- Thread starter Dan@JBT
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My saw kicked back into my arm and chest would be another, I'd be more worried about stopping the blood loss and fainting, could also cut your climb line at the same time, if you're lucky you can get to the lowering line
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I'm not arguing for the sake of it and I'm certainly not recommending the lowering rope as a general rescue method but, in the right circumstances I'd use it, I hope I never have to.
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VA-Sawyer
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If I cut through my climb line and am not injured, no problem, I will have the climb line sent back up. If, in the process of getting injured, I cut my climb line as well, then I agree with using the rig line. Attach with a figure 8, undo the second tip and step off. The ground crew can control my descent speed with tension on the rope. I just have to stay conscious long enough to attach and step off.
I think getting injured AND cutting away my climb line at the same time is unlikely, but it is certainly possible. I do not like the idea of trying to tie in to another line in an injured condition. I think it would be a last choice.
I think getting injured AND cutting away my climb line at the same time is unlikely, but it is certainly possible. I do not like the idea of trying to tie in to another line in an injured condition. I think it would be a last choice.
VA-Sawyer
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No worries mate. I wear a helmet!
VA-Sawyer
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I'm not taking it as arguing. I like hashing out ideas. Better to already have a plan when the poop hits the blower. Keep talking. I wish a few others would join in with ideas.
In aviation, we have a reg that says " in the event of an emergency, the pilot may deviate from any rules necessary, to meet with that emergency". In other words.... don't worry about the rules, save lives!
VA-Sawyer
Addicted to ArboristSite
Made me think of the story Beans told about dropping big chunks and having a groundie walking into the drop zone. He yelled at the guy, who replied "It's OK, I'm wearing a helmet".
I watched a program last night on Spetznaz, the Russian special forces. One of the boys was saying how people think that they can deal with a certain situation, but, when that situation comes up the reality is beyond what they imagined it to be and they can't cope. That's when the training and the personal experience comes in. I did rescue as part of my college course, I know I'll never rescue in those circumstances as they were virtually perfect but it did give a reference point however unrealistic. It was a low stress situation rescuing a physically capable relaxed uninjured climber not far up a perfect and very tidy oak tree. If i remember right a little bit of branch walking too but certainly an unconscious/panicked/bleeding or whatever hanging upside down on a half sectioned spar
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VA-Sawyer
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One thing I'm getting from this discussion..... on dicey cuts, it might be better to be rigged on a figure 8, rather than a friction hitch. YOU have to hold the friction hitch. With a figure 8, your descent can be controlled by a groundie.
VA-Sawyer
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Two things I never leave the ground without having on my harness....... figure 8 and hand saw. They are almost PPE to me.
Valandscaper
ArboristSite Lurker
The scenario for me would be a cut gone wrong or hit with a limb. I climb on a tree motion and have 2 attachment points on my bridge one swivel and the standard ring it comes with. My rigging line has a loop and a rigging biner on the end so I can use it on smaller pices with no need to tie and untie knots. So for me it's easy, I get cut take rigging line attach biner that's already there to point 2 on my bridge then cut climb line or disconnect etc... My groundie lowers me on the porta wrap. We practiced this a few times and it takes about 10 seconds from the oh **** moment to me headed down. Not saying its the best way but it it the simplest for my crew. They use the rigging line and porta wrap 50 times a day so it is second nature. No training needs to be recalled no special equip they need to remember how to use and I don't have to tie a single knot or work a multi lock biner. The one on my rigging line is a click and go no fancy twist or pull lock like my climbing biners. In an emergency you actions need to be second nature, if I'm injured or heat exhaustion whatever happens I just turn myself into another limb and head down. I should also include I climb on a Blake's hitch iv never tried all the fancy friction devices. So me self descending requires a little more than just pulling the handle. It also leaves room for a possible tangle in the line or line caught in brush whatever that I am in no condition to deal with. ( yes I do make sure to keep my line clear but in this situation perfect world is out the door) I I'm on the rigging I'm their problem there are 3 of them to make sure the line is clear and to control my decent in the simpleist manner possible the way they do it all day.
VA-Sawyer
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Sounds good except one case I can think of....... if you get hit by the branch, there is already wood on the rig line. It has to be lowered first, unclipped, the line hauled back up to you, then you can clip on, cut loose, and be lowered. I would just clip a biner from my saddle to the rig line, and come down with the wood to save time.
During practice, was the rig line already connected to a branch? A second tip used? Did you do it one handed to simulate an arm injury?
During practice, was the rig line already connected to a branch? A second tip used? Did you do it one handed to simulate an arm injury?
imagineero
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I don't know why so many guys are keen on figure 8's. They're one of the most overrated devices ever made in my opinion.
VA-Sawyer
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Shaun,
I'd like to hear why you say that.
For me it is a backup descending device. If something happens to my e2e, I can still get down fast and safe. I know a climber that goes up to his highest working point, then converts to a figure 8 and works his way down. I prefer a friction hitch for the ease of up and down it allows. After tonight, I think I might pre-rig the 8 on dicey cuts, just in case.
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
Not for one specific reason, but for a whole bunch. I don't know what guys use them for. As a descending device they're pretty awful in my opinion. There's a bunch of trucks to them, like you can thread them upside down to get more friction, and you can use them with a doubled rope, you can get a psuedo lock off by treading the rope in a certain way. But I just think they're cumbersome and not really all that useful. They twist the rope something fierce. If I was going to carry something I'd probably carry a gri gri or a sticht plate. I use the gri gri occasionally for a weird sort of lowering scenario that I just kind of try and avoid taking those jobs nowadays.
