How to use your saws sights

[smokechase II]

Here is a link to the Williams Fire in Oregon.

A photo from their web page:

http://www.inciweb.org/incident/pictures/large/1763/4/

===============

Note that the faller is looking down the sights toward the target.
They are both in the same view.

If you are in the habit of looking down at your sights and drawing a line with your mind or your hand you are denying yourself the best accuracy.

Its OK when your have a huge target. No sweat.

However, consider trees well over 100 feet tall and the accuracy needed.

 

[forestryworks]

this is a good thread.

 

[smokechase II]

Trivia

Small item:

Note how the sawyer above is holding the saw so it will not move.

This can be done one handed by having the saw dogged in and pressure is put on the end of the gas tank handle.

 

[forestryworks]

once the diameter of the tree is longer than the bar then comes parallax error... right?

i guess in that situation you would gun from one side of the tree only?

 

[GASoline71]

Great pic of the proper way to use the gunnin' sights...

Gary

 

[smokechase II]

parallax

"once the diameter of the tree is longer than the bar then comes parallax error... right?"

No, there is still an error with the sights regardless of bar length.

The sights point out from the powerhead.

But the faller is interested in where the tree is pointing.

One has to mentally determine what this offset is at any given distance from the tree, with regard to an off-set. The farther any target is from the stump, the closer this distance will appear to be to the cutter, hence the parrallax problem.

Your sights will point slightly to the left or right of the desired lay OF THE SIDE OF THE TREE THAT THE POWERHEAD IS ON.

===============

To determine this off-set:

half the tree diameter at cut height
+
distance from bark to sights
=
offset.

So a tree being cut at a 30" diameter.

15" + about 7" = 22 inch to one side.

*******************

Granted, precision on this level is difficut.

 

[smokechase II]

Pic

"Great pic of the proper way to use the gunnin' sights."

=============

yeah.

The cutter looks pro.

All the PPE. Looks like he got stuck with wearing new outer chaps for the fire.

----------------

I thought this would also be an interesting way to sucker some AS folks into linking to the fire web sites.

 

[Philbert]

Great Photos.

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[SURDO]

Pretty sure hes from Northwest Timber Fallers. May be wrong

 

[Tree Sling'r]

Pretty sure hes from Northwest Timber Fallers. May be wrong

I think your right, khaki Nomex top and it is an Oregon fire.

 

[Jacob J.]

I think your right, khaki Nomex top and it is an Oregon fire.

I saw the NWTF guys wearing those on the Iron complex last year, they were pretty snazzy. They were even monogrammed with the guys' names on them. It's almost as if cutters are making too much money on these fires...

 

[Greystoke]

Precision is difficult

Granted, precision on this level is difficut.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, very difficult. I have worked with guys that are experts at using their chainsaw gunning sights. If you have a big tree you can always use gun-sticks or two tape measures, as these methods, if performed correctly, will point where the center of the tree will go, but there will still be variables like side lean, holding wood soundness, other trees or obstacles, and wind to consider as always, which is why precision on this level is difficult. Here is the best picture I could find of someone using gun-sticks.

Here is a picture of myself gunning a redwood with my chainsaw sights:

Notice the bull buck gunning behind me to check. I am pretty sure he is looking down the handlebars. We also used the two tape measure trick, and wish they would have snapped a picture of it. Best description is to plug a tape nail in one corner of undercut where bark meets wood, and do the same on opposite corner with a different tape measure, and then have two helpers cross the tapes at any distance...I would have like to have tried gun-sticks just for the fun of it, but never took the time to make a pair, or borrow them. My buddies used to make fun of me because I said that I wanted to invent Laser sight for my chainsaw, or mount one to a big carpenters square...that would be sweet! Wish I was cutting trees like this every day so I could experiment.

 

[Greystoke]

I saw the NWTF guys wearing those on the Iron complex last year, they were pretty snazzy. They were even monogrammed with the guys' names on them. It's almost as if cutters are making too much money on these fires...

No way man, they could never make too much money! I would have to make a lot of money if they made me wear those outside chaps.

 

[smokechase II]

Wages

The wage for most of the fallers that are part of a falling module is $650/day.
Taxes and expenses coming out of that.

For instance; a module of two cutters/ saws/ vehicle(s) may be bid at $2200/day. After the Owner pays out workmans comp etc etc etc etc he then pays each cutter the $650.

Some of these operations are only paying $500/day. Cheapskates.

The AD (solo) cutters bid for themselves or are paid to a set AD wage and I don't know what those wages are.

===============

I suspect that NWTF bought the shirts for their troops.

 

[Metals406]

 

[BarkBuster20]

The wage for most of the fallers that are part of a falling module is $650/day.
Taxes and expenses coming out of that.

For instance; a module of two cutters/ saws/ vehicle(s) may be bid at $2200/day. After the Owner pays out workmans comp etc etc etc etc he then pays each cutter the $650.

Some of these operations are only paying $500/day. Cheapskates.

The AD (solo) cutters bid for themselves or are paid to a set AD wage and I don't know what those wages are.

===============

I suspect that NWTF bought the shirts for their troops.

how do you get into that i wanna cut on fireline.

 

[forestryworks]

take a pack test, get your red card. working your way up into the cutting ranks.

 

[BarkBuster20]

take a pack test, get your red card. working your way up into the cutting ranks.

what exactly is a packtest and how long do you think it would take to become a cutter on a fireline. i wish i could start right now. no doubt in my mind i could do it.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Very informative thread here. I like that the "offset" has been discussed because I don't hear it talked about much, as if you can point your site on a specific target and that's where the tree top will hit, doesn't work that way. I also like hearing precision discussed, it is difficult to calculate because of all the natural factors so experience and a faller with a good instinct and feel is still the most important to succesfully landing the timber in my opinion.

 

[Metals406]

Great thread Smoke!

I've found that carpentry has helped me greatly in falling trees. . . You're always using angles and dangles when building.

A good understanding of compression and tension on the stump, as well as over gunning the tree to make up for lean helps a bunch.

There's no better feeling than nailing your target dead-nuts.