How to use your saws sights

[oregoncutter]

What?

someday i will get on fireline as a cutter. ill be the best.

I am not trying to sound like a royal PECKER, but after reading some of You're posts I wonder if are You for real, or just someone kidding around? If that's You're real mindset You probably would'nt last long working near me. Litteraly. Arrogance and Ignorance are a bad combination!

 

[GASoline71]

One word of advice i can give is listen to the old timers they know what they are talking about

...and park your truck where the fallers park theirs.

Somebody had that as a sig line here... but it's an old line.

Gary

 

[oregoncutter]

Some truth to that

...and park your truck where the fallers park theirs.

Somebody had that as a sig line here... but it's an old line.

Gary

I knew a guy from the riggin crew, that would park next to us in the mornings, and even drive up to the jobs. He also used to conversate with us over his co-workers. He finally got on the cutting side a few months after I left, his wife (ex-wife) as found out later made it a little sweeter deal for theBullbuck. Now he's back to setting chokers again.

 

[Greystoke]

There are plenty of times where a Humboldt or other undercut has merit.

But;

general rule is the conventional face - at standing height - is the safest when falling hazard trees.

Two reasons:
1) Looking up is easy,
2) Body posture presents a smaller target.

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Key point is

DEATH FROM ABOVE

Staring at your face while bent over is retarded. Most face cuts will not squash you.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Each of you can argue this or watch the argument play out.............

But go out and cut either way and see for yourself which is the best for looking up.

Watch cutters who do one or the other. Study each cutters ability to be aware of overhead hazards within their technique.

======================

It takes less than 2 seconds for an unobstructed object to fall 50 feet and it is going 40 mph when it hits. You depending on a lookout or yourself?

I have fell countless dangerous snags in Southeast Alaska...by far the most dangerous snags of anywhere else I have been, and I am having trouble seeing how it can be any different using a conventional or humboldt undercut at breast height, by what you stated? Now, generally speaking, I would use a conventional undercut when falling a dangerous snag, not because I could not look up easier(because at waist or breast height, it does not matter what form of undercut I am using, I can see up just fine and can run like a rabbit either way), but because it was easier for me to get more material off of the face and in effect, less compression on the holding wood, and less chance of a blowup. Also, you don't have to worry about waste with a conventional cut on a snag as you absolutely do on a nice green tree.

 

[smokechase II]

Face cuts

"I have fell countless dangerous snags in Southeast Alaska...by far the most dangerous snags of anywhere else I have been, and I am having trouble seeing how it can be any different using a conventional or humboldt undercut at breast height, by what you stated? Now, generally speaking, I would use a conventional undercut when falling a dangerous snag, not because I could not look up easier(because at waist or breast height, it does not matter what form of undercut I am using, I can see up just fine and can run like a rabbit either way), but because it was easier for me to get more material off of the face and in effect, less compression on the holding wood, and less chance of a blowup. Also, you don't have to worry about waste with a conventional cut on a snag as you absolutely do on a nice green tree."

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With most Humboldt undercut techniques there is a natural need to bend over toward the face. The higher the face overall to a standing position the lesser this tendency.
If doing a back bar portion of the lower Humboldt face this tendency is removed.

I'll start posting some photos here to try and illustrate these thoughts.

 

[Humptulips]

...and park your truck where the fallers park theirs.

Somebody had that as a sig line here... but it's an old line.

Gary

I've seen a couple cutters rigs with trees on top of them.
To every rule there is an exception.LOL

 

[2dogs]

I've noticed a lot of guys want to rush through a larger diameter tree, like it's a 12" tree. . . Two different worlds there.

It's funny to watch someone rush through a tree, and really bugger things up. . . Mismatched face to backcut, prematurely cut (or real uneven) hold-wood, dutchman (accidentally). . . Rushing through a face and backcut is a real good way to smash something up.

I had the unusual opportunity to watch someone else drop a fire scarred redwood in the area I have been working. My friend Duane was cutting this goose pen redwood about 15' from a building. This pic is of him trimming his gunning cut. The tree still drifted slightly to the right because the hinge was a little to close to the burned out interior. Still, it made it to the ground with no damage.

We were talking about how with a more valuable tree it may be beneficial to build a nice bed and really clean out the lay of anything that could cause breakage. These redwoods break easily compared to a Doug fir. I've never done it old school and built a lay like that.

 

[smokechase II]

Neck exposure

This powerpoint slide made to a regular photo shows the two real problems with focus on the face. The cutter here is doing an open face.

 

[2dogs]

I've seen a couple cutters rigs with trees on top of them.
To every rule there is an exception.LOL

As long as it is someone else's truck it's OK. LOL.

 

[2dogs]

To many people over think their situations, they are afraid of failure. No books or videos and "C" faller classes are gonna make you a faller - go do it - many of you will find that you could not pack a real fallers gas and while you are still making your retarded conventional cut and your 2 inch step as well as hinge we have already dumped 10 trees and have already cut the fire line.

Does this mean I can't watch your videos on Youtube now? :greenchainsaw: I agree that there is a world of difference between you pro fallers and those of us who hack around in the woods.

 

[oregoncutter]

I am not the most technical sounding guy for sure, but speaking for myself working on the bottom cut on a Humboldt at breast height, most the time without alot of effort I can see pretty good above me and still line up pretty good. The rest of the outlooks I pretty much agree with, just have to take em all on a case by case basis theres no set rule for the safestest most effcient, accurrate way to fall all trees in all situations. Intuition from a good brain, and alot of experience ought to tell ya what to do in each situation.

 

[smokechase II]

Open Face from above sighting

Here is another open face slide.

They like to do their angled cut first and use it for sighting.

This is more difficult as:
1) One cannot adjust once started,
2) Lots of concentration required,
3) Looking from above means less accuracy,
4) The angling of the saw twice means you have to hold the saw perfectly level or the sights point to different targets.

Look at the sights from the cameras perspective and note how they point differently. It is slight but to remove this requires explanation/training/experience. (Picture the bar tip just slightly lower)

 

[smokechase II]

Any focus

Here is an example of a conventional being made where a correction was needed.

More time in the danger zone, yes the Agency C cutters are certainly more prone to this.

The point here should be with any concentration on the face there is a loss of vertical awareness.

This sawyer is 6 foot 8 and this cut should clearly have been higher.

There is a strong tendency among FS cutters to sort of go low but not achieve anything. Stump still isn't short and body posture is poor for several reasons.

 

[2dogs]

Here is another open face slide.

They like to do their angled cut first and use it for sighting.

This is more difficult as:
1) One cannot adjust once started,
2) Lots of concentration required,
3) Looking from above means less accuracy,
4) The angling of the saw twice means you have to hold the saw perfectly level or the sights point to different targets.

Look at the sights from the cameras perspective and note how they point differently. It is slight but to remove this requires explanation/training/experience. (Picture the bar tip just slightly lower)

Looks like he is ready for golfing with a chainsaw.

 

[smokechase II]

More looking up

Here is a cutter who could have started the face at a slightly higher spot and found it easier to look up.
I think you can see that looking at the pic.
-------------
Really thinking out the placement of your cuts can make it easier/safer. Looking, up, quick escape posture, comfort, wind blowing chips/dust into face, driving wedges and more make thinking out the heights of cuts important.

The second photo shows the backcut going in and the third shows a bit of the powerhead sighting versus the tree lay. (The snag here rolled slightly so its exaggerated.)

 

[smokechase II]

Found it

Here is a powerpoint that shows the powerhead thing.

These are converted to pics and lo res but if anyone wants a copy of any of these I'd be glad to e-mail them.

 

[smokechase II]

just a little higher

One photo shows the cutter at a perfect height for looking up and posture while the other is just a few inches too low.

You do want your knees slightly bent but if possible everything else vertical.

 

[oregoncutter]

IN respose to more looking up!
Yeah I agree he could've been up a little higher to make it easier to look up, but given his stature it looks to me like that's overall a pretty comfortable position for him, I know I wouldn't want to be working up much more than that, especially all day. I understand the safety factor You're getting across, and think You bring a good true point to light. I about got sick the other day I went into my local Stihl shop to get some parts, a new salesman approached me with a 460 in his fat hands, and said You need this saw for around the farm, I was dressed in clean nice clothes, he told me the sights on it make it real easy to put a tree where You want it, and how easy it is to start. He had no idea if I even knew how to start one. I told him to F off and walked away. I think he knows me now. I remember a time when they didn't have fancy sights on the saws like they do now.

 

[Tree Sling'r]

Smokechase, you and I have gone at it before and I admit that you are a good guy, but you over analyze everything.
You would not make it my world, and I would not make it yours.

 

[smokechase II]

I've seen you cut

You had a video of cutting down a dead doug.

You're much better than I.

=============

But I didn't have to worry about you in my day.
When you worry about lesser experienced types you want to give them the safest easiest to be safe stuff.
So that's my excuse.