Just cleaned out this oak 2 weeks ago. comments?

[tomtrees58]

Ole ropen might fish in the ocean but big boat.

yes we fish a 55' ocean yacht at montauk tom trees

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

the tree grew very sparse or had been liontailed before or is just sick in some way, causing it to grow the way it did. why wouldnt you cut suckers in the center? they'll never reach the canopy anyway and just detract from the look.

Technically suckers are found in the basal and root areas only. All above that are (water) sprouts.

Excess sprouting is a stress response in any tree, the indiscriminate removal of all sprouts will just perpetuate the stress because the tree will tend to put more on.

On top of that, much of what many people will call a sprout is inner canopy that will not grow long and succulent. This inner canopy will still remain active when the outer canopy becomes partially dormant on very hot days. If all the inner canopy and sprout branches are removed, there is little transpiration during extreme heat.

I am all for the thinning of sprouts so that some will become branches over time. IMO it is part of crown restoration.

Stripping out all the inner foliage, just because that is what was done in the past, is not good practice. Live oak is not that different from others to justify hacking away.Generally speaking that is; just by looking at those tow pictures can I say that this is a hack job. I'm just saying that stripping out all the sprouts is.

 

[RoyalTree]

not so fast

guidelines are just that, they're not rules or laws. the way that liveoaks grow is completely different than other types of trees, hence different pruning methods. the tree grew very sparse or had been liontailed before or is just sick in some way, causing it to grow the way it did. why wouldnt you cut suckers in the center? they'll never reach the canopy anyway and just detract from the look. man did spot-on work imo.

Not so in some counties in Florida! You will get a paper asking for a mandatory 500 dollar donation in some parts. It is a clear liontailing and happens ALL the time in this area. Even if it is the wrong way to take care of a tree it would still qualify as a decent trim after you see what butchering everybody is doing in the name of storm prep. There is a severe lack of understanding of proper pruning techniques in the whole area. Proper taper is essential to trying to prepare a tree for a storm. Branches shaped like a dowel break off in very little wind. This topic has been studied in great depth at the University of Florida.

 

[Menchhofer]

Technically suckers are found in the basal and root areas only. All above that are (water) sprouts.

Excess sprouting is a stress response in any tree, the indiscriminate removal of all sprouts will just perpetuate the stress because the tree will tend to put more on.

On top of that, much of what many people will call a sprout is inner canopy that will not grow long and succulent. This inner canopy will still remain active when the outer canopy becomes partially dormant on very hot days. If all the inner canopy and sprout branches are removed, there is little transpiration during extreme heat.

I am all for the thinning of sprouts so that some will become branches over time. IMO it is part of crown restoration.

Stripping out all the inner foliage, just because that is what was done in the past, is not good practice. Live oak is not that different from others to justify hacking away.Generally speaking that is; just by looking at those tow pictures can I say that this is a hack job. I'm just saying that stripping out all the sprouts is.[/QUOTE


Nuff said.

 

[StihlRockin']

John Paul Sanborn, Thanks for your last post above. It is an informative post for me.

Good to know.

StihlRockin'

 

[treeseer]

This topic has been studied in great depth at the University of Florida.

Yes some research indicates that reducing or thinning at the ends is more effective at stabilizing than raising and stripping interiors. In fact, raising and stripping can INCREASE risk!

Maybe when some gutted tree fails, the owner will sue the arborist for malpractice! Those studies need to be translated into plainer talk and the word spread.

Hey 12Ed, come on out; a lot of people do that kind of work--you are not the scapegoat!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Yes some research indicates that reducing or thinning at the ends is more effective at stabilizing than raising and stripping interiors. In fact, raising and stripping can INCREASE risk!

With a lionstail you maintain the same end mass for the levered end, while removing inner dampening mass (anyone not see the discussions on mass dampening?)

The U.Fla. studies I've read tend to focus on upright stems and "pressure of height"; that is you have the lever extending, which puts more pressure from the wind, and a greater arc of movement. Add to that the loss of dampening mass down stem, you have more force on the member.

Now if we add in Mattheck's "shear bomb" of a laminated cylinder, we can see hoe this extra movement will cause failure strain at the point of bend. This is where the point of bend is an axis for the shifting of forces from compression to tension on opposing faces of the stem, then back again. This juxtaposition (Apposition; a placing side by side or close together; the condition of being side by side or close together.) of compression and tension causes delamination of the rings reduction of breaking strength. (I've read that this may be where ring shakes come from)

Here is a diagram of Mattheck's principle at the basal flair, it holds true to limb movements in heavy winds too.

 

[tree MDS]

On a simpler note: if you strip the trees out down south, when a hurricane does come through and break everything theres nothing left to cut back to.

 

[Ted J]

we seem to be having a John Madden moment here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5_n1S3ilQk&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fvideosearch%3Fhl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dopera%26rls%3Den%26hs%3DqF%26q%3Djohn%2520madden%2520diagrams%2520a%2520play%26um%3D1%26ie%3DUTF%2D8%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwv%23&feature=player_embedded

 

[arborist]

lion's tailing is not an acceptable pruning technique

Whud yall think?[/QUOTE]

lion's tailing is not an acceptable pruning technique.
this tree (for whatever the reasons where/are) has been improperly pruned.
this pruning method is called "lion's tailing" like pointed out and should never be preformed.
sorry,but a certified arborist will not prune tree's in this manner.
the tree's overall health will suffer and is now extremely susceptible to storm damage.
the homeowner lost.
the tree's health lost.
pruning in the manner will eventually cost you big time and you will lose as a result.
study the latest practices in arboriculture if you wish to continue tree work please.
continue your education in arboriculture and become a certified arborist.you will be extremely happy you did.
good luck.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

we seem to be having a John Madden moment here:

Yeah, not the best I've seen, but what I could find on short notice. Maybe Kenny or one of the more artistic members can render a drawing. If I tried it would be worse.

 

[ropensaddle]

Yeah, not the best I've seen, but what I could find on short notice. Maybe Kenny or one of the more artistic members can render a drawing. If I tried it would be worse.

Two left hands when it comes to drawing huh?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Two left hands when it comes to drawing huh?

And all thumbs, comes from too much fighting in my youth, I think. broke them a few times, tore some ligaments and tendons....

 

[ropensaddle]

And all thumbs, comes from too much fighting in my youth, I think. broke them a few times, tore some ligaments and tendons....

I had a few too many of those myself, sorta wished I had not been so hard headed.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I had a few too many of those myself, sorta wished I had not been so hard headed.

Same here, Luckily I was a Jarhead, so I am covered through the VA. A lot of it was service related, not all barfights

Though my hard head served me well; I won more than one fight with a well placed headbutt, but I hit a lot of low mounted objects while shipboard that messed my neck up something fierce. There were a few times that I found myself on the deck and seeing stars.

 

[ropensaddle]

Same here, Luckily I was a Jarhead, so I am covered through the VA. A lot of it was service related, not all barfights

Though my hard head served me well; I won more than one fight with a well placed headbutt, but I hit a lot of low mounted objects while shipboard that messed my neck up something fierce. There were a few times that I found myself on the deck and seeing stars.

Lol I sometimes won never was koed but lost my share too, nothing like a good azz whippin to change a perspective lol. I usually only lost when I was in the wrong because, the fight would still be going if I was right lol. I had tough buddies though, way tougher than I ever thought of being. Now I am happy to be a cupcake no interest in scraping unless it is over my grand babies or family.