McCulloch Chain Saws

[dynodave]

My BIL brought me another saw yesterday from his town transfer station.
1999??? Mac Timber Bear ?mod 60013414 SN11-059617-
?55.5cc? acres site is not clear about bore/stroke on this model-
20"-3/8-70dl- PHO 14lb15oz
sorry have not put a pix in my gallery yet. Not all beat up, looks clean
170psi...oily residue in tank, came with new tygon 4040 line from filter to carb. I then half filled with fresh mix. primed in carb and fired it, repeat 3 times. Finally ran on tank fuel... felt strong and as expected LOUD.
Ran it for 20-30 seconds and it never seemed to put any oil on the bar. Does it need a new oiler diaphragm? any corrections or suggestions about typical failure of oiler.
TIA

search yeilded:

snip
Say, if anyone ever has trouble with the bar oil pump, just be sure that the bar oil tank is filled to the top. If slow, that's usually about all it needs to get it started again.

My Timber Bear is impulse oilers/supplemental-manual isn't it?
It had some small amount of oil in it, but sitting so long might have "lost it's prime?"
added:
put a bunch of oil and manual started to work, but not sure auto is working yet?
Does the screw on top of the oiler assy control stroke length, therefore flow volume of impulse oiler?
2 added:
Ray sent me a haynes service section and yes the top screw does adjust volume of oil. Looking at this whole family of mac's which seem to be repackaged 10-10 in antivibe chassis'.
Also the bore/stroke/displacement specs are screwy...including on acres site
inch and metric# don't jive and for the timber bear (pm605) I am still trying to figure if it is 55 or 58cc
Mark can you set me on the right path..thanks

 

[dynodave]

Thought I'd share a pix of the (1962) McCulloch 15 I got a few months ago from my BIL.
Seems to be a bucking saw only due to the carb style. Compression check yielded 110psi ???
[photo=medium]4903[/photo]
[photo=medium]4902[/photo]

 

[heimannm]

The Mac 15 will work on its side so long as the fuel tank is mostly full but does depend on gravity feed.

There were two versions of the 600 Series saws. I believe all of the earlier models were nominally 3.7 In³/60 cc - 1.85" (47 mm) bore x 1.378" (35 mm) stroke.

The later models like the Silver Eagle 3420 and Pro Mac 5700 were nominally 3.4 In³/57 cc 1.75" (40 mm) x 1.378" (35 mm) stroke.

The bore and stroke figures are listed all over the place. The '92 cylinder/piston list says the 610 piston is 1.677" top and 1.730" at the skirt yet calls out the bore at 1.841"... The 650 says the piston is 1.835" top and 1.837" at the skirt and 1.841" bore. Go figure.

Mark

 

[fossil]

@heimannm

Mark, I notice when I changed the seals on my late model PM700 that there was a steel ring in the case bore on the FW side. I don't see anything on the IPL for the ring. I do see it on the IPL on the PTO side. I know it's supposed to be there but, maybe it's a part they didn't sell?

 

[heimannm]

There is a ring that fixes the position of the ball bearing in the crankcase to effectively hold everything in position since the needle bearing on the other end has no thrust/position characteristics.

There were two different type of bearings used on the 10 Series, one was a narrow bearing that works together with the larger O.D. seal; on that one the snap ring creates a positive location for the crankshaft. On later saws the bearing has a wider outer race and the seal presses into the outer race of the bearing. On those saws there is a simple wire ring that goes over the bearing and fits a groove in the bore of the crankcase to position the bearing and crankshaft.

Small O.D. seal on top, large O.D. seal below.



This is a 1-10 with the narrow bearing and large O.D. seal that fills the bore. This saw would use a snap ring in the bearing bore to position the bearing.



This is the wider bearing with a simple ring to position the bearing, the smaller O.D. seal presses in the bearing.



I guess this is what you were talking about...

Mark

 

[heimannm]

On the PTO side the larger saws (70 cc and above) there is a carrier (insert) for the needle bearing. Most saws have a pin that locates the insert but some older saws had a ring similar to the one on the larger bearing on the other side. This is the BH108 bearing pressed into the carrier (bearing insert) used on the larger displacement saws.



Here you can see the bearing and insert on the crankshaft in the lower RH corner of the photo, this insert used the pin as a locator, no groove for the ring appears. Looks like this DE80 was about to receive a new piston and rings.



Mark

 

[fossil]

There is a ring that fixes the position of the ball bearing in the crankcase to effectively hold everything in position since the needle bearing on the other end has no thrust/position characteristics.

There were two different type of bearings used on the 10 Series, one was a narrow bearing that works together with the larger O.D. seal; on that one the snap ring creates a positive location for the crankshaft. On later saws the bearing has a wider outer race and the seal presses into the outer race of the bearing. On those saws there is a simple wire ring that goes over the bearing and fits a groove in the bore of the crankcase to position the bearing and crankshaft.

Small O.D. seal on top, large O.D. seal below.

View attachment 614449

This is a 1-10 with the narrow bearing and large O.D. seal that fills the bore. This saw would use a snap ring in the bearing bore to position the bearing.

View attachment 614451

This is the wider bearing with a simple ring to position the bearing, the smaller O.D. seal presses in the bearing.

View attachment 614452

I guess this is what you were talking about...

Mark

Thanks Mark

The saw is a PM700 with the grey tank and black recoil and clutch cover. 11-600116-06 PRO MAC 700 08/82 to 11/92 IPL 216176-02. The st up on the FW side is definitely like the 1-10 you have in the pics. The seal I pulled out was marked 61618 and I replaced it with a Timken 471551
.5625 in X 1.379 in
Runs like a top now. Very strong runner with a 24" bar.

(20" bar in the pic)

 

[Walter Glover]

Tomorrow should have the SP80 picked up. Man this is bad
Edit:
My daughter picked it up!
Yippee

 

[dynodave]

Haynes service manual list PM605 data:
3.5ci/58cc(should say 44cc not 58cc to match 3.5ci)
bore/stroke pi (RxR)xstroke=displacement
1.57 x 1.38 =3.4989ci
40 x 35 =43.982cc
I think 1.57/40mm bore is a typo and should be 1.81/46mm
1.81 x 1.38 =3.6ci
46 x 35 =58.16cc
__________________________________________
Haynes service manual list PM610/Super610/PM650/PM655 data:
3.7ci/60cc
bore/stroke pi (RxR)xstroke=displacement
1.85 x 1.38 =3.7ci
4.7 x 35 =60.72cc (bore should be 47)
______________________________________
Haynes service manual list Timber Bear data: assume 600134
3.4ci/55cc (data matches acres site) (should say 3.6ci/58cc)
bore/stroke pi (RxR)xstroke=displacement
1.81 x 1.38 =3.6ci (inch and metric bore/stroke match acres site)
46 x 35 =58.16cc
_____________________________________________________
The McCulloch data in the official 1987 IPL 218689-02 show only 2 piston sizes/pn 1.9"/60cc and 1.8"/58cc yet the tech data shows 3 bores???
3 of these IPL show 4.7mm/1.9"/60cc yes 4 . 7 not 47

For now I'm going with timber bear as 58cc until I can popsicle stick the bore.

 

[rwoods]

Today was a beautiful day. Nothing better than to work on the wood pile when you can't be in the woods.



I split wood mostly. I also bucked up my four remaining large red oak logs. With my 800 waiting on parts, I put the Joey 805 to work but it developed a problem so I switched to the 125C. What a pleasure just to let a saw work in big wood. Also took revenge on the stump that attack my truck a couple of weeks ago. No action shots - the 125 is shown below propping up my freshly re-handled axe for a photo for my friends in the logging forum. Chain needs a little tightening.



Now to business - the 805 won't start without a prime (No problem just remove or loosen the air filter cover, remove the gas cap and tip the saw back. MAC was kind enough to even position the slot in the tank at the back). Fires up and will idle all day long. Accelerates but in the cut it will quickly go to a fuel starved situation. Keep it wide open and it will die. I assume all I need to do is to rebuild the carb. Correct?

Ron

 

[fossil]

Makes sense to kit the carb and check the fuel filter. You might find crud in the carb filter as well. If that doesn't work you might be looking at a vacuum leak.

 

[rwoods]

Hoping it is just fuel related. It doesn't race like an air leak or when the line sucks air sometimes when you are running out of fuel. It just sounds like it isn't getting enough fuel.

Ron

 

[heimannm]

It could be that the metering lever is set too low causing it to starve at higher speeds.

Mark

 

[rwoods]

It could be that the metering lever is set too low causing it to starve at higher speeds.

Mark

Starting to sound like a job for my friend Brian. I can dissemble and re-assemble a carb to the basic kit level - beyond that I'm no good.

Ron

 

[fossil]

For whatever reason I have never seen one of the 8XX series saws for sale in Ontario. I keep hoping another 80 or an 81 or 850 will appear.
The SP80 I have has been hacked with a chopped off full wrap and a winter AF cover with no muffler to match. I had to make a cover for the muffler but was able to find an NOS duct. A chain brake, short cover is on it (not sure if that was offered or not) but it does run strong.

That's a nice looking 80 you picked up Walter. I think you will be impressed with the power. The small capacity fuel tank gives us old guys more breaks.

 

[Brian Thacker]

Ron:
It sounds like it needs a fuel filter and maybe the fuel screen in the carb cleaned. Bring it on up and I will take care of it for you. More than likely as you wait. Do you know what carb it has. Do you have a kit or do you want me to get one.

Brian

 

[Walter Glover]

What I found with my CP70 was hard starting was crud in the inlet screen and then later too lean low setting. On the wot running out of fuel tge sdc carb main check valve had delaminated snd was plugging the high jet so would run out of go in a couple seconds of wot. Fixed that on second attempt and bob's yer uncle. Maybe your 805 is suffering similar issues.
Oh yes and the source of the crud in the inlet screen? Someone had inserted a washer in the filter holder fuel line. Might be oem? Anyways it was all rusty and flakes of rust downstream of filter felt was contaminating the carb.

 

[Brian Thacker]

The washer was put their by the factory. It is used to weight down the fuel filter and keep it in the fuel.

Brian

 

[Walter Glover]

Thanks Brian. Will put a sst one in there then. In theory steel should not see water in a fuel tank eh? But all steel tanks end up with holes in em

 

[rwoods]

Does anyone have a handy reference chart for chain lengths for MAC bars in .404?

I have 33” and 36” (some say 34” and 37”) sprocket nose and 42” hard nose. Thinking about adding a 28” sprocket nose in lieu of the 25” 77DL Stihl bar I use.

Thanks,
Ron