mixing ratios for 2 stroke chainsaws

[bwalker]

Poor old BWalker. Must be tough keeping ahead of the engineers in the industry.

Like it is some of his business what kind of engineer Hermio is to start with.

Ever notice how they pick up little cheer leaders. Sort of like Jim Jones I suppose.

If your going to throw a title around you should probably mention what type of engineer you are. It's very germain tonwhat we are talking about.

 

[KASH]

I do know one thing for certain no matter what brand of oil or what mix ratio the paramotor has in its tank I will never leave the ground in one.
Kash

 

[ZeroJunk]

If your going to throw a title around you should probably mention what type of engineer you are. It's very germain tonwhat we are talking about.

Well, I have a degree in Biology from UNC 1976. So, I worked as a manufacturers rep in the electrical industry 27 years or thereabouts, like that had anything to do with Biology. I retired in 2004 . An evil person brought me a pick up truck load of Stihl stuff that the customer had abandoned for whatever reason. I like messing with it because of some insanity.

I know enough to know what I don't know and I don't know what the blend is in any of the 2 cycle oils compared to any other 2 cycle oil.

So, I do what the engineers who blend the oil and make the saws say to do.

Makes perfect sense to me.


BTW, I work from 7 to about 2 on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Something to do.

 

[ZeroJunk]

If your going to throw a title around you should probably mention what type of engineer you are. It's very germain tonwhat we are talking about.

On a big tangent, I hunted in Montana most years for about 30 years. On White Tail Creek where it runs in to the Dearborn. Between Biggs and Headquarters up the North Fork of The Sun River, and on Cox Creek above the Flat Head on the west side of the divide.

I remember the first time I road a horse around Gibson Reservoir I was scared to death, look down past your left foot at empty air.

I envy you.

 

[Hermio]

What sort of engineer and what state is your PE license in?
There are no government standards on two cycle oil..
You do realise that comprises must be made in regards to things like oil ratios. This done for a variety of reasons and if you were an engineer in industry you would know this.
As for the last third of your post. It's rubbish. Typicaly in my expiereance engineers refrain from making blanket statements like you have made. Its pretty you don't have a clue what your talking about so the again I will ask. What sort of engineer are you?

I did not make any blanket statements. I stated principles and some of my own experience. My specialty is fluid mechanics. As such, I do not claim to be an expert on chainsaws or lubrication. What I do claim is an understanding that there is such a thing as too much oil, for the reasons I have stated. If that were not so, why not just run 2:1 or even 100% oil? I also claim that end users do not have the wherewithal to actually make quantitative measurements of the results of different oil ratios. To do so scientifically and objectively, would require, as a minimum, the following principles to be carried out: 1) Several identical saws should be tested for each oil ratio. 2) Each saw should be run under identical conditions. This would probably mean on a controlled dynamometer, rather than actual sawing, as sawing is too variable. The same gasoline should be used in all testing also 3) Power output should be measured for each ratio, assuming the saw is properly tuned for that ratio. (MS500i excepted. It does so automatically via its fuel injection system). 4) At each oil ratio, the saw should be taken apart and inspected for wear periodically. I would suggest at 10, 50, 100, 200 and 500 hours of operation. 5) The previous test sequences would need to be done for each specific two-cycle engine oil. Only then could someone really figure out what the optimum ratio is. I would bet no user on this forum has done such tests. I suspect at least some of the saw manufacturers and oil manufacturers have done some of the tests described. They might not have done all of them. As for what kind of engineer I am or where I am registered, it is not really relevant to this discussion, as I do not claim specific expertise in saws or lubrication, but the engineering principles I have espoused are general to any industry or product. It is called scientific testing, and it is beyond what any reasonable end user can do. That is why I tend to trust certain companies, tempered by user experience. (I watch a lot of Project Farm videos also!). But, to make you happy, I happen to be a PE in Ohio. However, I consult all over the world. Now I have a suggestion for you: spell check and grammar check your posts. In you above post, the following errors were made: realise >realize; comprises>compromises; like>such as; Typicaly>typically; expierance>experienced; Its>It"s; your>you're.

 

[bwalker]

I did not make any blanket statements. I stated principles and some of my own experience. My specialty is fluid mechanics. As such, I do not claim to be an expert on chainsaws or lubrication. What I do claim is an understanding that there is such a thing as too much oil, for the reasons I have stated. If that were not so, why not just run 2:1 or even 100% oil? I also claim that end users do not have the wherewithal to actually make quantitative measurements of the results of different oil ratios. To do so scientifically and objectively, would require, as a minimum, the following principles to be carried out: 1) Several identical saws should be tested for each oil ratio. 2) Each saw should be run under identical conditions. This would probably mean on a controlled dynamometer, rather than actual sawing, as sawing is too variable. The same gasoline should be used in all testing also 3) Power output should be measured for each ratio, assuming the saw is properly tuned for that ratio. (MS500i excepted. It does so automatically via its fuel injection system). 4) At each oil ratio, the saw should be taken apart and inspected for wear periodically. I would suggest at 10, 50, 100, 200 and 500 hours of operation. 5) The previous test sequences would need to be done for each specific two-cycle engine oil. Only then could someone really figure out what the optimum ratio is. I would bet no user on this forum has done such tests. I suspect at least some of the saw manufacturers and oil manufacturers have done some of the tests described. They might not have done all of them. As for what kind of engineer I am or where I am registered, it is not really relevant to this discussion, as I do not claim specific expertise in saws or lubrication, but the engineering principles I have espoused are general to any industry or product. It is called scientific testing, and it is beyond what any reasonable end user can do. That is why I tend to trust certain companies, tempered by user experience. (I watch a lot of Project Farm videos also!). But, to make you happy, I happen to be a PE in Ohio. However, I consult all over the world. Now I have a suggestion for you: spell check and grammar check your posts. In you above post, the following errors were made: realise >realize; comprises>compromises; like>such as; Typicaly>typically; expierance>experienced; Its>It"s; your>you're.

Boy, you sure danced around that... I think your full of it. But I will give you another chance. What engineering discipline is your degree in?
And this isn't English class, bud. I refuse to proof read a post on a internet forum.
And to be clear.. we aren't talking about a hypothetical point where there is too much oil. What we are talking aboutbis the fact that a bit more oil is beneficial for most saws.
As for your test. Its about as valid as Project farms garbage. You need alot more than 2-5 data points to achieve any sort of statistical validity. You should be aware of this given your allegedly an engineer.
You also absolutely made several blanket statements..

 

[OM617YOTA]

I did not make any blanket statements. I stated principles and some of my own experience. My specialty is fluid mechanics. As such, I do not claim to be an expert on chainsaws or lubrication. What I do claim is an understanding that there is such a thing as too much oil, for the reasons I have stated. If that were not so, why not just run 2:1 or even 100% oil? I also claim that end users do not have the wherewithal to actually make quantitative measurements of the results of different oil ratios. To do so scientifically and objectively, would require, as a minimum, the following principles to be carried out: 1) Several identical saws should be tested for each oil ratio. 2) Each saw should be run under identical conditions. This would probably mean on a controlled dynamometer, rather than actual sawing, as sawing is too variable. The same gasoline should be used in all testing also 3) Power output should be measured for each ratio, assuming the saw is properly tuned for that ratio. (MS500i excepted. It does so automatically via its fuel injection system). 4) At each oil ratio, the saw should be taken apart and inspected for wear periodically. I would suggest at 10, 50, 100, 200 and 500 hours of operation. 5) The previous test sequences would need to be done for each specific two-cycle engine oil. Only then could someone really figure out what the optimum ratio is. I would bet no user on this forum has done such tests. I suspect at least some of the saw manufacturers and oil manufacturers have done some of the tests described. They might not have done all of them. As for what kind of engineer I am or where I am registered, it is not really relevant to this discussion, as I do not claim specific expertise in saws or lubrication, but the engineering principles I have espoused are general to any industry or product. It is called scientific testing, and it is beyond what any reasonable end user can do. That is why I tend to trust certain companies, tempered by user experience. (I watch a lot of Project Farm videos also!). But, to make you happy, I happen to be a PE in Ohio. However, I consult all over the world. Now I have a suggestion for you: spell check and grammar check your posts. In you above post, the following errors were made: realise >realize; comprises>compromises; like>such as; Typicaly>typically; expierance>experienced; Its>It"s; your>you're.

You're assuming that your suppositions and assumptions are as valid a form of evidence as the actual lived experience of the guys who run these saws day in and day out, and the experience of those who work on those saws which are run day in and day out.

This is not correct.

 

[bwalker]

Well, I have a degree in Biology from UNC 1976. So, I worked as a manufacturers rep in the electrical industry 27 years or thereabouts, like that had anything to do with Biology. I retired in 2004 . An evil person brought me a pick up truck load of Stihl stuff that the customer had abandoned for whatever reason. I like messing with it because of some insanity.

I know enough to know what I don't know and I don't know what the blend is in any of the 2 cycle oils compared to any other 2 cycle oil.

So, I do what the engineers who blend the oil and make the saws say to do.

Makes perfect sense to me.


BTW, I work from 7 to about 2 on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Something to do.

How do you know what the engineers think? I assure you engineers aren't writing the manuals.
I would also bet a box of donuts that Stihl or Husky also do bot have an engineer working on lubrication. I work for a oil company that makes two cycle oil and we don't have an engineer dedicated to that product.

 

[bwalker]

On a big tangent, I hunted in Montana most years for about 30 years. On White Tail Creek where it runs in to the Dearborn. Between Biggs and Headquarters up the North Fork of The Sun River, and on Cox Creek above the Flat Head on the west side of the divide.

I remember the first time I road a horse around Gibson Reservoir I was scared to death, look down past your left foot at empty air.

I envy you.

I moved here for a reason..
I've never hunted that country. It's beautiful, but the wolves, grizzlies and lions have really impacted the game populations in that area in the last few decades.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I moved here for a reason..
I've never hunted that country. It's beautiful, but the wolves, grizzlies and lions have really impacted the game populations in that area in the last few decades.

Yeah. If you read the published literature they try to tell you that it hasn't . I hunter there first in 1985. We bow hunted the North Fork of the Sun for about 10 years, before it became a thing. Once we learned how to go about it there was about 60 Elk divided in to smaller herds of 12 to 15 with one dominant herd bull and a few satellite bulls. Not particularly successful killing anything, but I have been within 100 yards of a lot of 325 plus herd bulls. And, I have called some satellite bulls in within 20 yards. Of course, trying to get a bow drawn at the range is pretty much impossible. But, that was never really the goal with me anyway.
The first thing they did was let it burn all to hell when they could have stopped it. Then some curious people in NY or LA who like the idea of a calf being eaten or a cow having her guts pulled out while still alive decided it was a good idea to put Canadian Grey Wolves in there. Bulls depleted after the rut driven so high that they simply starved to death rather than face the wolves. That kind of thing.

And, all driven by people who have never gone there and never will.

 

[rogue60]

There was an engineer on here not long ago telling us chinese cylinders are superior too OEM. He was asked how he came up with this delusional conclusion the answer was always I'm an engineer lol
Many a time in my life working machinery or whatever it is was that was a terrible design and as the frustration mounted I've wished I could have a little chat with the engineer that designed it lol

 

[Lawless]

I have a friend that is a hydraulic engineer. Great at figuring out how to get a highway system to drain rainwater but is mystified at how electricity works. This doesn’t mean she’s not an engineer or is not smart.

There seems to be an unwillingness to agree to disagree. Falling to names and insults does exactly what?

Nobody has ever had their mind changed by internet arguments that I have ever seen

 

[bwalker]

Yeah. If you read the published literature they try to tell you that it hasn't . I hunter there first in 1985. We bow hunted the North Fork of the Sun for about 10 years, before it became a thing. Once we learned how to go about it there was about 60 Elk divided in to smaller herds of 12 to 15 with one dominant herd bull and a few satellite bulls. Not particularly successful killing anything, but I have been within 100 yards of a lot of 325 plus herd bulls. And, I have called some satellite bulls in within 20 yards. Of course, trying to get a bow drawn at the range is pretty much impossible. But, that was never really the goal with me anyway.
The first thing they did was let it burn all to hell when they could have stopped it. Then some curious people in NY or LA who like the idea of a calf being eaten or a cow having her guts pulled out while still alive decided it was a good idea to put Canadian Grey Wolves in there. Bulls depleted after the rut driven so high that they simply starved to death rather than face the wolves. That kind of thing.

And, all driven by people who have never gone there and never will.

People think it's the calves and cows that get hit hardest by wolves, but that's not true. Bulls are usually found higher and in nastier country. As a result the wolves will run them into deep snow until the get bogged down, then they take them out.
I did see this one at bow range last week, but with no tag for the unit. Also not in an area with wolves.

 

[bwalker]

There was an engineer on here not long ago telling us chinese cylinders are superior too OEM. He was asked how he came up with this delusional conclusion the answer was always I'm an engineer lol
Many a time in my life working machinery or whatever it is was that was a terrible design and as the frustration mounted I've wished I could have a little chat with the engineer that designed it lol

There was an engineer on here not long ago telling us chinese cylinders are superior too OEM. He was asked how he came up with this delusional conclusion the answer was always I'm an engineer lol
Many a time in my life working machinery or whatever it is was that was a terrible design and as the frustration mounted I've wished I could have a little chat with the engineer that designed it lol

Only a small amount of engineers are worth a damn, just like any other profession.
A friend of mine who is a ME and has PE license told me once the average engineer should be locked in a rubber room and fed with a sling shot. I dont disagree.

 

[sean donato]

There was an engineer on here not long ago telling us chinese cylinders are superior too OEM. He was asked how he came up with this delusional conclusion the answer was always I'm an engineer lol
Many a time in my life working machinery or whatever it is was that was a terrible design and as the frustration mounted I've wished I could have a little chat with the engineer that designed it lol

Sounds like valley forge.....

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Only a small amount of engineers are worth a damn, just like any other profession.
A friend of mine who is a ME and has PE license told me once the average engineer should be locked in a rubber room and fed with a sling shot. I dont disagree.

Every automotive engineer for the past 16 model years falls into this category.

 

[sean donato]

Every automotive engineer for the past 16 model years falls into this category.

Longer then that....

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Yeah, I can't argue with that. Just the past 16 stand out as THE most INFURIATING vehicles of all time.

My '07 Silverado garage queen with just 103k miles on the clock took me 2 weeks to R&R the transmission - WITH a LIFT - after 3rd & 4th went up in smoke. Every single part of that truck fought me, from the plastic grille, to the bellhousing bolts, manifolds, and transfer case bolts ... not to mention the 200 different styles of connectors that have ZERO logic as to how they come apart. Was absolutely INFURIATING! I'm just thankful mine doesn't have a fraction of the rust that most vehicles this age do around here. Could've been 10x worse!

 

[thenne1713]

If your going to throw a title around you should probably mention what type of engineer you are. It's very germain tonwhat we are talking about.

You can find/read online where one CSM user built three saws w/ new piston/ rings ran 1x 25:1, 1x 50:1, 1x100:1, (all synthetic) ran each x-hours under load and tore down; his conclusion was stick with 50:1 for least carbon and least skirt scuffing. My 10-yrs_ experience w/ synthethic says same. OLD, lower grade dino oils= ANOTHER STORY. USE SYNTHETHIC, TUNE TO YOUR MIX, and stay there. MINE is 50:1 and VERY Happy, with all my OPE.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I like Amsoil saber, mostly because the exhaust doesn’t give me a headache and smells quite pleasant, but their testing of weed eaters against echo oil was such a huge fail and waste of time. Whoever came up with the test was a fool - the engines weren’t ever under load in 300 hours…