mixing ratios for 2 stroke chainsaws

[Lawless]

While I have run 2 cycle equipment hard (in business) I haven’t had any engine failure. I have a Stihl trimmer with who the heck knows how many hours, over 10 years old and was used almost daily for hours. I sold both my businesses when we “retired” and moved to this farm permanently but I still use that trimmer. Stihl orange was what I used for years.

Red Armor is my oil since the summer and I bought the 4 gallon Amazon deal so it’ll be my oil a long time

All that said, you guys have convinced me to move to 40:1 from 50:1.

A little more insurance for a >$1000 saw is a good thing…..and an old trimmer too.

 

[huskihl]

You're both probably right.

ZJ has said he mostly works on homeowner stuff, if a logger was a part of the group then he had no clue. For almost all homeowners, they will never rack up 250 hours on their saw. If you have a suburban lot and don't heat with wood, you probably don't put 20 minutes per year on your chainsaw. If you do heat with wood, you probably still don't put 5 hours per year on your chainsaw. At 5 hours per year, it would take a person 50 years to rack up 250 hours. 100:1 ratios may well make the saw last just fine at this usage rate. Not ideal, but the homeowner will still never wear the saw out. This backs up ZJ's claims.

We also have people here on the site who are pro fallers and loggers, and will put 250 hours on their saw in a couple months. They will legitimately wear a saw down to low compression in a year or two, plus we have the people who work on these faller's saws. They may well agree, 50:1 isn't enough oil to make the bearings last until the rings are worn and compression is low. This backs up the pro's claims.

This is spot on

 

[thenne1713]

If you have 89 octane gas and mix it at 50:1, 40:1, and 32:1. What is your octane
with the oil mix?
50:1 ?
40:1 ?
32:1 ?

I say 89 octane, I have never read anyone say oil mix changes octane?

 

[Kel71]

I say 89 octane, I have never read anyone say oil mix changes octane?

paragraph 15 - One of the things you should do - https://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/tech/twostroke-fuel-ratios-premix-myth-vs-reality-54169.html


I tried to find the octane number for 2 stroke oil, but couldn't find anything.

 

[bwalker]

I say 89 octane, I have never read anyone say oil mix changes octane?

Low quality oil can do that. Some oils actually can improve it.
In a low compression engine like a saw it doesn't matter much at all.

 

[bwalker]

paragraph 15 - One of the things you should do - https://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/tech/twostroke-fuel-ratios-premix-myth-vs-reality-54169.html


I tried to find the octane number for 2 stroke oil, but couldn't find anything.

I don't buy that statement at all.

 

[Hermio]

Really that's interesting so you work on saws for a living but how/why if the manufacturers recommendations are so good?
I find it amazing a "mechanic" could have such a narrow mind and such little understanding of oil and the benefits of adding more than what the "manufacturer recommendations" and that being 50:1 and tuned lean from the factory more than often now day's.
But I guess if one never strays from what the manufacturer recommends one would never know or learn anything more than what the manufacturer recommends. ignorance is bliss..

Do you really think the users know more than the manufacturers?

 

[OM617YOTA]

Do you really think the users know more than the manufacturers?

You're assuming the goals of the manufacturers are the same as the goals of the users. They frequently are not.

 

[sean donato]

You're assuming the goals of the manufacturers are the same as the goals of the users. They frequently are not.

They rarely are the same. Most mfg make things to work for a 5 to 8 year period. (if its even that long anymore.) Then in the case of saws they have to meet emissions, and be at a certain price point. Now where does the consumer fit into this? They don't. Just the long and short of it.

 

[ApePilot]

They rarely are the same. Most mfg make things to work for a 5 to 8 year period. (if its even that long anymore.) Then in the case of saws they have to meet emissions, and be at a certain price point. Now where does the consumer fit into this? They don't. Just the long and short of it.

Manufacturers must adhere to the ridiculous EPA mandates that continuously become more and more stringent. They do what they can to provide a useful engine/tool for the intended purpose, but have to dance around all the bogus EPAs restrictions. Hence, 50:1 F/O mix recommendations. If you talk to most ANY pro logger who uses the larger saws, he will tell you that everyone uses between 20:1 to 32:1, depending on the saw. Typically, the bigger saws are run harder for longer periods of time and thus become much hotter than the smaller saws. Extra lubrication is required because the crankcase does not collect the 'excess' oil like a smaller saw being used for cutting firewood that runs at load intermittently.
Sure, for you F/O recommendation-stickler people playing around with your small-displacement yard tools in your own small properties perhaps one or three hours per month on average, 50:1 is likely almost adequate and costs less in oil (artificial savings). But if you're running those saws/tools eight hours a day, five to six days a week, not only are you expending a hell of a lot more calories and eating far more protein than the average person, but you're also using a lower F/O ratio to extend the life of that hard-working saw/tool.
Even a good-sized blower that is running for hours on end requires a lower F/O ratio. Some people here believe the bigger-displacement blowers are low-load tools. Think again. They're running at around 9800-10500 rpm continuously for hours on end when blowing a substantial amount of leaves in the autumn. At least on my farm they are.
So, believing that the manufacturers are recommending the best F/O ratio for these 2T tools is pretty darn preposterous when considering all the variables.

 

[sean donato]

Manufacturers must adhere to the ridiculous EPA mandates that continuously become more and more stringent. They do what they can to provide a useful engine/tool for the intended purpose, but have to dance around all the bogus EPAs restrictions. Hence, 50:1 F/O mix recommendations. If you talk to most ANY pro logger who uses the larger saws, he will tell you that everyone uses between 20:1 to 32:1, depending on the saw. Typically, the bigger saws are run harder for longer periods of time and thus become much hotter than the smaller saws. Extra lubrication is required because the crankcase does not collect the 'excess' oil like a smaller saw being used for cutting firewood that runs at load intermittently.
Sure, for you F/O recommendation-stickler people playing around with your small-displacement yard tools in your own small properties perhaps one or three hours per month on average, 50:1 is likely almost adequate and costs less in oil (artificial savings). But if you're running those saws/tools eight hours a day, five to six days a week, not only are you expending a hell of a lot more calories and eating far more protein than the average person, but you're also using a lower F/O ratio to extend the life of that hard-working saw/tool.
Even a good-sized blower that is running for hours on end requires a lower F/O ratio. Some people here believe the bigger-displacement blowers are low-load tools. Think again. They're running at around 9800-10500 rpm continuously for hours on end when blowing a substantial amount of leaves in the autumn. At least on my farm they are.
So, believing that the manufacturers are recommending the best F/O ratio is pretty darn preposterous when considering all the variables.

So what exactly was it that my short post that was not directed at you have to do with your rant? I'll even go a step farther to say, I that I don't enjoy reading your condescending posts either. Assuming we're all idiots is no way to articulate a point, and believe it or not many of us know plenty about engines. So do everyone a favor and drop the crap attitude.

 

[rogue60]

Do you really think the users know more than the manufacturers?

You need to have more confidence in yourself that's a terrible attitude to have.
What a boring world we would live in if everyone only did what the manufacturers recommend. There would be no motor sports nothing. So do you think the guys that came back from ww2 and started modifying engines and building hot rods gave two f's what the manufacturer recommends lol
Manufacturers produce release dud faulty products all the time the enthusiasts among us usually come up with a fix even before the the manufacturers are aware of the problem.

Manuals and recommendations are for the guys that pay a dealer to "service" their chainsaw lol

 

[ZeroJunk]

What is fun is working on stuff where they should have really paid the dealer to service before they screwed with it.

 

[rogue60]

I have worked on a ridiculous number of pieces of equipment, maybe 30% chainsaws, the rest trimmers, blowers, pole saws, etc.
The majority are simple flooded, set so long the carb has a bugger in it, dropped out of a tree, run over, ignition gone bad, straight gassed. Primer has a hole in it.That type of thing. There are occasional internal defects, ciclips come out. Had two stacked on top of each other a couple of weeks ago. That type of thing. Warranty repairs.

The only oil related issues I see is they forgot to put any in it.

That is the real world .

You left out cleaning blocked spark arresters.

 

[ZeroJunk]

You left out cleaning blocked spark arresters.

I did as a matter of fact. A few of those every day depending on the time of year.

 

[bwalker]

Do you really think the users know more than the manufacturers?

Do you really think OEMs make decisions like this based on what's best for the machine?

 

[bwalker]

I did as a matter of fact. A few of those every day depending on the time of year.

I've never seen one plugged on my stuff...

 

[bwalker]

What is fun is working on stuff where they should have really paid the dealer to service before they screwed with it.

I don't know how it's possible to not figure out O P E. It's dead simple!
Dealers techs are some of the most clueless when it comes to these machines..

 

[ZeroJunk]

I don't know how it's possible to not figure out O P E. It's dead simple!
Dealers techs are some of the most clueless when it comes to these machines..

Yep. I could tell you were a genius from the start.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I've never seen one plugged on my stuff...

Actually, I think you are some kid in his mom's basement and lives some curious chainsaw life vicariously on an internet forum.