ms200 bites again

[tam]

LOL MAN!!!! THAT PICTURE IS QUALITY!!

but the thing is, every so often you do get the need to use the saw one handed. if you at all can, use it two handed. obviously.

 

[Fireaxman]

I cut with one hand and push with the other, or push and hold on.

I'm careful to keep both hands behind the saw, after a near miss cutting and pushing, but every so often it is Wonderful to be able to cut with one hand and stabilize myself on the trunk of the tree with the other hand. One hand for the job and one hand for me seems reasonable. I tie in twice for cuts (2 fliplines or flip line and climbing line) but sometimes I have to reach out a little to get the cut where I want it. That's when I really appreciate the little 200t.

I don't think the Stihl engineers wrote the book. I think the Stihl lawyers wrote it. And I don't think they climb trees with chain saws.

Exceptionally Good pict, Sizzle, and I know what the front handle is for. I use it 90% of the time. But allow me the lattitude to evaluate the risks and adapt to the situation. Never say "Never".

 

[Eagle1]

How do you get a pic on this site??? opps I did it... this is Georges hand after he knows it is sharp...."Dang W"

Really it was my one hand 200t mishap a year ago...lucky man I am. /just clean out and 3-4 stitches in each finger....cutting the top, pushing with one hand....learn here follks.

 

[jmack]

firewood

Doesn't matter how good an operator you are, using a top handled chainsaw with one hand is a recipie for disaster.

temptation is there for one handing like when making firewood.

 

[wradman]

kickback

maybee they should change the kickback regs on the cchainbreaks for top handled saws (just a thought) what do you guys think

 

[BoesTreeService]

I personally dont see the need for one handed cutting on the ground, so I have gone to 017 for my small ground saw, the top handle is for climbing only. Despite what the Stihl lawyers paste into the manual, a top handle saw is made for one handed cutting, and the fact that they are only made in the climbing saws (small lanayard equiped saws) is because there are on occasion when one handed cutting is necessary when perched in a tree. But this is rare even in climbing, but I cant see when it would ever be NECESSARY on the ground. It might be a little easier, but that just means youre being lazy. So according to my company safety plan, there will be no one handed cutting on the ground, and to help accomplish that , I have taken away the temptation of allowing the ground work to be done with top handle saws.

PS, I am VERY curious as to what kind of situation would have you removing brush through a house??!! I dont think I could do that - my guys would get distracted and I would surely go into the house to find them standing in front of the TV with brush in thier hands...

 

[clearance]

Terry, I sure hope your plan says to never one hand a saw under any circumstances, 020 saws are made to be one-handed but one handing is against the work law here and I think most places. If some is hurt one handing make up some b.s. story so nothing happens, fines, snivelling by authorities, etc.. It is funny to see what people have to say about one handing, pro or con. Even funnier how some of the people who have something to say don't even climb.

 

[BoesTreeService]

Here is a question for everyone - irregardless of what Stihl ( or perhaps as someone pointed out previously Stihl's lawyers) put into thier manual, there is only one reason for manufacturing a top handle saw - and that is for one handed cutting. It is my assumption, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, that top handled saws are only available in the climbing saw models (ie small with lanyard attachments) because during climbing is when one handed cutting is most necessary. Is that correct?

If anyone is injured doing one handed cutting on my job site, it had better be me because I am the only climber, and the only one using the top handle saw.

So, Clearance - are you saying my site safety plan is a hinderance because if an injury occurs while someone is violating the plan, it could cause problems? I will check the local laws to see if one handed saw use is prohibited, and be sure my plan complies. But I seriously doubt that will effect my occasional need to use the saw in the way it was designed.

I may start a new thread to see if anyone else is using site safety plans.

 

[sal b]

.

I don't think the Stihl engineers wrote the book. I think the Stihl lawyers wrote it. And I don't think they climb trees with chain saws.

".

i wouldnt be surprised if stihl lawyers make them stop selling yellow chains

 

[clearance]

Terry, just because manuals, laws or your manual say one handing is forbidden, you can still one hand, just c.y.a.. The 020 is made for one handing, that is obvious. Some companies have gone to using regular saws in trees to stop people from one handing. Treeco and others are on crack, talking shi , ignore them.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Everyone who has a copy of The Tree Climbers Companion would do well to get it out and read the introduction. You might gain another insight about one-handing and double tie-ins. Jeff has an interesting and compelling story.

Would anyone care to do a book report?

The arguement that top-handle saws were 'made' to use one handed doesn't hold water. There are plenty of examples of ways to use things in a manner that they weren't designed.

 

[wradman]

topping saw

are you guys allowed to tie the saw to yourself or just the tree

 

[clearance]

Wradman, my 020 hangs of a lanyard behind me. Tom, way back when 020 saws were made out of steel and aluminum, what did the manual say? Before all the lawyers multiplied and everyone went sue crazy, before people needed instructions on how to go to the can? And, even if they were not meant to be used one handed some of the time they perform admirably in this respect, so well in fact that is why some conclude that is why the handle is on top. Once I used a trailer hitch tongue to pound wedges so I could fall a couple of trees, I know it wasn't designed for that, so what? A nonsensical arguement from you in this regard. In regards to the book, is this the bible? Is Jeff holy? Here is my advice to you or anyone else that shares your opinion about top handed saws, don't one hand. Simple.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Once I used a trailer hitch tongue to pound wedges so I could fall a couple of trees, I know it wasn't designed for that, so what? A nonsensical arguement from you in this regard. In regards to the book, is this the bible? Is Jeff holy? Here is my advice to you or anyone else that shares your opinion about top handed saws, don't one hand. Simple.

You mix metaphors...pounding wedges with a hitch isn't closely related to one handing. It's not about design, it's about accepted safety practices. I'm not telling you how to work, you don't listen to anyone else, and anytime I suggest something you take the opposite stance.

Have you read Jeff's story? If not, you missed a good one. You know everything so it's unlikely that you would need to lower yourself to learning from anyone else. For the rest of us who like to learn the world of arborculture would be a lot different if Jeff weren't lucky, or blessed as he says.

TCC isn't a bible by any means but no one that I've ever talked to has said that it isn't one of the best books in arborculture. Have you read the book? Jeff isn't holy...but that's something that he and I talk about at our Saturday evening campfires. He's just a regular guy who runs a tree company and is lucky to be alive. If you have TCC you would have read his story in the introduction. Have you read Jeff's story? It relates very closely to the topic at hand.

PS As I re-reread all of the posts in this thread I see that the discussion seems to fall into three groups. The first is the ones who don't advocate one handing and are feel that this makes sense. The second are the ones who one hand occasionally, feel that it is unsafe but have made their peace with the risk. There seems to be about equal numbers in the first two groups. The third group advocates for one handing and feels that the rules, regs and good practices aren't made for them. there seems to be few people in the third group. What does this mean???

 

[wradman]

topping

thanks for the info i'm more of your typical psyco bc production handfaller. I do a fair amount of climbing for extra cash, i spent 3 years working for yarders (tree rigging) so it's not new to me but i'm sure i'm nowhere near the climer most of you are i probably still climb about 20 trees per year sometimes more sometimes less. Been doing crazy stuff with cranes lately.keep the info coming.(don't panic i'm accident free over 10 years)
i use the husky 335 i do one hand but not unnecesarily
when i'm on the ground i get serious with my 288

 

[wradman]

topping

just learning i hope this works
guess i can't work these attachments

 

[clearance]

Wradman, I love it "psyco faller". It takes big balls to fall, I know, the other day a faller said we were crazy climbing trees!, climbing is way safer than falling, anyone that has done both knows why. Treeco, I apologize to you. Tom, one handing is rule I chose to break, I can and do learn, for example I never freeclimb anymore. I obey most of the rules at work, actually the one hand deal is the only one I don't. I wear caulks with good caulks, h/h w/screen and muffs, fallers pants, high vis, pressure bandage, whistle, even wear my seatbelt in the truck. I haven't read Jeffs book, not opposed to reading it, probably some new thing to learn. I too am lucky to be here, got my own stories about almost getting my ticket punched. Anyways, every climber I have ever met or worked with one hands, so much for the the three groups in my world. And you are a res. climber, not a production utility climber (my former job). At the course I took for utility work the instructor (ISA, CUA, TCIA? other stuff too) said anyone who freeclimbed or one handed at the course would fail. We were all scared and brought handsaws and extra steelcores. After I blocked down a fir using the chainsaw/handsaw finish method for the first and only time I knew this was a rule that just sucked, at least I tried it, and it sucked big time. Thanks for your concern, I know that your heart is in the right place Tom and you really don't want people to get hurt, even hacks like me.

 

[Stumper]

Regarding the book report-Jeff Jepson cut his single tie-in with a chainsaw and fell 40 feet. Regarding Tophandled saws being 'designed" to use one handed-Not true-there are old top handles saws that are hard to pick up with 2 hands, Many of the consumer saws made in the 70-s and 80's were tophandles. The makers were trying to make tiny saws not one hand saws. On the other (1) hand -the current professional top handled saws are clearly intended for a market whose pros desire a saw they can control with one hand. I am not ashamed of my one handed use of my climbing saws... but that doesn't mean that I think that everyone should do or that ANYONE should do it without considering the potential consequences.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Jeff Jepson cut his single tie-in with a chainsaw and fell 40 feet. Regarding Tophandled saws being 'designed" to use one handed-Not true-there are old top handles saws that are hard to pick up with 2 hands, Many of the consumer saws made in the 70-s and 80's were tophandles. The makers were trying to make tiny saws not one hand saws. On the other (1) hand -the current professional top handled saws are clearly intended for a market whose pros desire a saw they can control with one hand...everyone should do or that ANYONE should do it without considering the potential consequences.

Thanks for the book report

Jeff and I have talked a lot about his close call with Death. He acknowledges that he was doing something that he souldn't have been. After his close call he stopped one handing and stated using a second tie in. He was working in real winter conditions in Longville,

http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=Longville,+MN

and wearing heavy mitts. Jeff, and many others who owned the original 020's, felt that the saw wasn't designed for one handing because of the poor balance and small top handle. Now, add in mitts and an extended reach. His mitt got jammed in the throttle mechanism which lead to a kick back which cut his rope.

In Jeff's case, he didn't die or get hurt. His world would be a lot different if he had been killed or injured. He has a wife and two wonderful kids. Then...think about how different things would be without The Tree Climbers Companion. Th book is still selling steadily.

At the end of "Jurassic Park" when the people were flying away in the helicopter Jeff Goldblum says, "It just goes to show...even though we CAN do something, maybe we shouldn't..."

Don't think for a second that I don't one hand on a rare occasion. But when I do there are so many actions and thoughts that precede it that I generally find a way to position myself to use two hands. Even though I've never done production utility work I have done production work around targets that are just as dangerous...and done line clearance as a part of the work. How many and how much exposure to extreme dangerous situations do you need to have in your life before you get hurt? Promoting unsafe actions and dismissing accepted practices is irresponsible.

 

[BoesTreeService]

You wont convince me that top handle saws are not made for one hand cutting. Thats sure as hell why I sold my old 018 and got the top handle.

Its certainly not the only product made to be used in a manner thats not totally legal - The speedometer on my car says 140, and it will do it. But I doubt Ford would ever say that was it's intended use. The gun manufacturers continue to make guns that are easily converted to a fully automatic, which is totally against the law, when they could easily make them so that they could not be converted. The make the gun specifically so it can be converted, then put out a manual saying dont ever do it. I could go on and on with products such as this. Just because Stihl says they dont make it for one handing doesnt mean its so. Wake up and smell the coffee.

And I dont think that posting on here is gonna get someone writing legislation to quit the production of top handle saws.