ms200 bites again

[clearance]

Tom, now having heard the story (thanks Stumper) I can see you are, from a logical and causal reason for this accident, simply wrong about one handing being the cause. The accident happened cause Jeff was wearing freakin huge mitts! Here is a tip, don't wear freakin huge mitts when running a saw!. I have worked in the cold with saws, I take of my orange cotton webbed chainsaw gloves and put my hands under my arms or somewhere else warm for a bit. Sometimes I hold my fingers in front of the exaust. You have to have control of the trigger at all times during use, it would have been great for me to wear mitts, with rabbit fur even, just not safe, as your buddy found out. Couple of questions regarding your last post. 1) What is just as dangerous as a live powerline?. 2) Were you trained to do utility work, and if so how so trained?.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Clearnace,

Your reasoning is so twisted there is no way to even continue trying to discuss anything with you.

The gloves caused the kickback??? What would have not caused the kickback and rope cutting? Two hands!!!

Once again, you're completely wrong. Wearing cotton gloves in cold or wet conditions is wrong. Wool or synthetics are the way to go. No matter what you claim to know, cotton cools or kotton kills. The winters in north central Minnesota have got to be worse than anything that you're likely to ever experience in BC unless you go above treeline.

More dangerous in the sense of causing damage and sometimes death. Working around landscapes or hot wires. Don't turn this into a discussion about who has the biggest 'tool. When I started climbing professionally in the early '70s, were you around then? there wasn't any formal training for line clearance work. the guy who taught me treework was a lineman for Bell System, do you remember Bell Phone Company? Probably not...He taught me some good things. Even so, I managed to get tickled a couple of times before I learned, on my own, to stay further away from powerlines.

 

[clearance]

Tom, look at what you said, speaking of tools. HIS MITT GOT JAMMED IN THE THROTTLE MECHANISM WHICH LED TO A KICKBACK WHICH CUT HIS ROPE...you said it. Read what you said again, how is that twisted? Further more maybe kickback can be stopped on an 020 by using two hands, not on a big saw which is why you should cut properly no matter what. And again, what target is just as dangerous as a powerline?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Chain brake would have hit his second hand.

Second tie in would have kept him from falling even if his rope was cut.

Once again, you're commenting on things that you have no information about. Jeff and I have spent a lot of time over the years talking about his close call. To the extent of acting out the way he was positioned. He KNOWS that two hands would have prevented the saw from jumping, gloves or not. AND!!! he knows that sooner or later, cutting one handed would have resulted in cutting his rope at one time or another.

Answered your other question.

 

[clearance]

Tom, if you were being cross examined on the witness stand, any decent lawyer could easily force you to admit that the gloves caused the accident. Yes, using two hands might have stopped the kickback, yes being tied in twice would have prevented the fall, but the accident was primarily caused by the loss of control, which was caused by the mitts, as you have already said. No need to for semantics, or putting a spin on it. If you came up with a better example it would mean something, I'll give you one, a few years ago a guy at work cut the tips of the fingers on his left hand with his 020, cutting and holding branches. I know about Ma Bell, deregulation did her in, no?

 

[1I'dJak]

best one handed saw i saw: was running a crew of high school kids, we introduced them to forestry work: pruning, stand thinning, planting and some campsite work...anyways, we were bucking and splitting firewood for a campsite, i turn a see young lady kneeling on the ground, one hand on the log, on hand on a dull husky 365 with and 18' bar...told her it was her time to stack the wood... it was kinda crazy now that i think of it... these 16-17 year olds, boys and girls with 365's cutting down 15-20 yr old trees...one girl probably weighed 90lbs with her caulks, buckin pants, and hardhat... therefore she was given the 257!

 

[tam]

i wouldnt be surprised if stihl lawyers make them stop selling yellow chains

man! i was gonna quote this one first!

 

[sal b]

The gun manufacturers continue to make guns that are easily converted to a fully automatic, which is totally against the law, when they could easily make them so that they could not be converted. The make the gun specifically so it can be converted, then put out a manual saying dont ever do it.

.

i f guns are so easy to convert where are all the crimes committed with full auto guns? the big media always classifies semi auto guns as full auto because it helps push their anti gun agenda. i live in NY and you can still buy assault weapons as long as they have no folding stocks, bayonet and flash suppressor. believe me if a crime was committed with a full auto in NY a real full auto the NY Times would be all over it. its not a problem

 

[clearance]

cut myself bad ---pysch

Injuries using top handled chainsaws with one hand exceed all other kinds of chainsaw injuries combined!

Went back and found this, funny how far some will go. A fully automatic weapon sure would be a blast, not here, soon all guns will be banned, like they are in England, where soon all top handed saws will be banned because of hysterical "facts" like above.

 

[gitrdun_climbr]

one-handing my 200t

The point that Stihl lawyers, not Stihl engineers write that safety manual is right on. OF COURSE Stihl engineers designed the saw to be used with one hand on occasion. OF COURSE there is a front handle with a chain brake and using them minimizes the risk that you will cut yourself in most situations. OF COURSE a good understanding of kickback forces, which can only come from extensive experience, must be fully understood. In my work, there is a small place for one-handing the 200t...usually limited to an extended outward or downward reach, with saw parallel to me and away from my ropes...in other words me and mine the #@$% out of the way. Thanks to this forum I have learned of the reputation for this 200T to cut experienced operators so I will be even more weary now. At this point, only thing I don't like about the saw is that your hands are so close together when running it even with two hands. Many call the cost a draw back but if you're getting into that saw you're probably doing some pricey work and that thing will have paid for itself by next week...don't sweat it. But one-handing like when cutting branches, just to hang on to them? Cross cut, kill your saw and break the thing off with both hands. Wrap a sling and rig it off to the trunk until you can kill your saw and ready yourself to position or throw it, anything but run that mighty 200t anywhere near your body parts to save 20 seconds.

Since the big danger is no front hand to trigger the chain brake, what about a design with a chainbrake on the rear handle as well? Maybe your thumb rests in it or something?

 

[tam]

''But one-handing like when cutting branches, just to hang on to them? Cross cut, kill your saw and break the thing off with both hands. Wrap a sling and rig it off to the trunk until you can kill your saw and ready yourself to position or throw it, anything but run that mighty 200t anywhere near your body parts to save 20 seconds.''

dude, i reckon i will take that advice of yours on board. i've got a bad habit of doing that.

 

[mightyoak]

after just purchasing a new Husqvarna chain, I had some down time, so I read every word on the printed material,enclosed with the chain. this information will "cut" down on chainsaw accidents, while manually climbing.[do not use chainsaws while in trees.]

 

[johnstr1]

Yup, top handled saws are classed as specialist user only (very expensive here too, reflects their special status) and one has to be certificated to even buy one here in the UK. Also, they are to be used ONLY up the tree, not allowed for groundwork. You can't even use one in a platform bucket, only rope and harness. That said, we all use them on the ground, they are just too practical for small jobs, they're perfect for long stringy shrubs like Rhododendron, pull it up clear of the muck with one hand, cut it with the other.

I've always found the best defence is what you have between your ears. I think the main problem with these saws is people "forget" that they are a serious tool , familiarity breeds contempt and all that. If you just remember to keep your self out of the "firing line" as much as is possible, you are going to be ok. We all get some kickback from time to time for example, but if you just think about what you're doing, allow for the possibility, and it whistles past your ear, not buries itself in your forehead. And only use them one handed when you have no other choice. I think it comes down to self discipline and common sense, though I accept that isn't always used. I had a colleague who tried to cut string on the small circular saw in the mill. Horrifying to watch when you ralise what they are trying to do and can't get to them in time.

Oh well, I've waffled on enough. Just take care you lot.

TJ

 

[johnstr1]

Ms200

I think Fireaxman has hit the nail on the head, Stihl are just covering themselves legally, they KNOW the saw is intended for one handed use, they just won't say so.

TJ

 

[Bermie]

Went back and found this, funny how far some will go. A fully automatic weapon sure would be a blast, not here, soon all guns will be banned, like they are in England, where soon all top handed saws will be banned because of hysterical "facts" like above.

So what, Jack Kenyon , who's been teaching arborists for God knows how many years is a perveyor of 'hysterical' facts? He taught me, he did the research as did the HSE in the UK and you're calling it 'hysterical'?

Before you quote me buddy, do your own research.

I've said somewhere before, no matter how you climb, what you use, one or two hands, braided or twisted, steel core or rope, WHATEVER, just before you make that cut, pause for a moment and ask youself, 'what will happen if this goes wrong? Will potential kickback be clear of me and my attachment point, will the big bastard chunk fall away from me and my groundie, et. etc. If you are happy, cut away and don't blame the machinery if it goes tits up because YOU made the decision to hold a saw with one hand or rig a massive chunk with string for rope.

 

[clearance]

So what, Jack Kenyon , who's been teaching arborists for God knows how many years is a perveyor of 'hysterical' facts? He taught me, he did the research as did the HSE in the UK and you're calling it 'hysterical'?

Before you quote me buddy, do your own research.

I've said somewhere before, no matter how you climb, what you use, one or two hands, braided or twisted, steel core or rope, WHATEVER, just before you make that cut, pause for a moment and ask youself, 'what will happen if this goes wrong? Will potential kickback be clear of me and my attachment point, will the big bastard chunk fall away from me and my groundie, et. etc. If you are happy, cut away and don't blame the machinery if it goes tits up because YOU made the decision to hold a saw with one hand or rig a massive chunk with string for rope.

I never rig massive any thing or even big, can't remember why I said hysterical, I must have meant it. If I cut myself I have no one to blame but myself.

 

[wradman]

reply

It's Not The Gun That Kills You If You Haven't Figured It Out Yet, It' S Got Nothing To Do With The Saw If Your Still Having Problems And Finding Answers The Hard Way Step Back And Take A Look At What You Are Doing.

 

[clearance]

Injuries using top handled chainsaws with one hand exceed all other kinds of chainsaw injuries combined!

There it is, hysterical it is.

 

[Bermie]

whatever...

 

[reachtreeservi]

It's Not The Gun That Kills You If You Haven't Figured It Out Yet, It' S Got Nothing To Do With The Saw If Your Still Having Problems And Finding Answers The Hard Way Step Back And Take A Look At What You Are Doing.

Excellent! Well said!