Ms461 saw design

[MustangMike]

What do they go through to get EPA certified in CA????

 

[Mastermind]

the way I see this thing working, My guess, Hard to tell, I ran one at a local Stihl shop, but I did not put any serious time on it. Only 5 or 6 cookies, exhaust scavenging was modified out, the Mod Gods are just treating these saws the same as pre-EPA saws, they are seriously changing the dynamics of the scavenging flow, I would think that if

All blather......no experience with the saw....total conjecture. You have completely disqualified yourself from this discussion, yet are too smart to shut up.

Again, show me the real world evidence. Don't just regurgitate Stihl media. No one has done that. If someone can do that...fine.

Anyone care to answer Brad's post?

 

[old-cat]

All blather......no experience with the saw....total conjecture. You have completely disqualified yourself from this discussion, yet are too smart to shut up.



Anyone care to answer Brad's post?

It's very possible there's an engineering development paper in the SAE stash on this saw. They DO have papers on chainsaws. But you have to pay the price.

 

[Trx250r180]

am just blowing hot air here but have a question, do the transfers dumping in the front change anything verses the sides ?

 

[Hedgerow]

am just blowing hot air here but have a question, do the transfers dumping in the front change anything verses the sides ?

The fresh would have to reverse course to get out the exhaust..

 

[MustangMike]

I have a stupid question, if the technology does not work, why are they putting it on the 661?

I don't pretend to know the answers, but I also don't believe that Stihl became the company they are by manufacturing technology that does not work.

I think there are some missing pieces to the puzzle here, and I am not in favor of shutting anyone out of the conversation.

 

[Mastermind]

Mike do you read? Or just post?

 

[nmurph]

Mike do you read? Or just post?

Do you want an answer or is that a rhetorical question?

 

[MustangMike]

Yes Randy I read, and I still have questions. Was not my intent to offend you, and sorry if I did. Maybe some of this stuff was just over my head, but I also think there are other things getting under your skin so I will let it go.

 

[Mastermind]

Yes Randy I read, and I still have questions. Was not my intent to offend you, and sorry if I did. Maybe some of this stuff was just over my head, but I also think there are other things getting under your skin so I will let it go.

I'm just fed up with guys that have zero experience with the matter at hand attempting to lead the discussion. I feel that these people just wade in with their "I'm an engineer" ******** and think that alone gives them some sort of credibility. I'm not a highly educated man, so I don't have the luxury of resting on my laurels. Instead I must think for myself.

What Brad has said in this discussion is that he does not see anything in the engine that is apart in his hands that could possibly make this engine produce a layer of stratified exhaust gas between the incoming fuel charge and what is in the combustion chamber already.

Brad is a Princeton grad if memory serves. So maybe the educated among us will hear him.

And could all of you overly smart guys tell me this........this layer of exhaust gas that is being used as a boundary layer. How is it any different than what is already in the combustion chamber and muffler. If a person takes time to think, rather than just quote what Stihl has said about this engine, they would see that there is no difference and that this "design" is just a marketing ploy.

 

[Mastermind]

Maybe Stihl has paid off the EPA, and needs a good story?

 

[MustangMike]

Randy, Thank You for your detailed explanation. FYI I was not trying to lead, just learn. I never pretended to have the knowledge on this subject to lead.

 

[Mastermind]

Randy, Thank You for your detailed explanation. FYI I was not trying to lead, just learn. I never pretended to have the knowledge on this subject to lead.

My comments were not directed at any single person Mike.

It just seems to me that the men that had real experience with these engines decided to leave this site.....now we have an overabundance of "upper management" types that have no practical experience spouting drivel all over the site. What will happen, is that the few true gearheads that are left here will leave as well.

Is that what we need?

 

[AKDoug]

I'm not privy to the engineering on the 461, but I do know it was a stopgap to appease the EPA. Hence the parts interchangeability with the 460. The replacement saw is well in the works (462?)

Stihl says the stuffer is there to direct the fuel charge to provide cooling to the piston.

 

[KG441c]

I'm just fed up with guys that have zero experience with the matter at hand attempting to lead the discussion. I feel that these people just wade in with their "I'm an engineer" ******** and think that alone gives them some sort odibility. I'ot a highly educated man, so I don't have the luxury of resting on my laurels. Instead I must think for myself.

What Brad has said in this discussion is that he does not see anything in the engine that is apart in his hands that could possibly make this engine produce a layer of stratified exhaust gas between the incoming fuel charge and what is in the combustion chamber already.

Brad is a Princeton grad if memory serves. So maybe the educated among us will hear him.

And could all of you overly smart guys tell me this........this layer of exhaust gas that is being used as a boundary layer. How is it any different than what is already in the combustion chamber and muffler. If a person takes time to think, rather than just quote what Stihl has said about this engine, they would see that there is no difference and that this "design" is just a marketing ploy.

Now that makes sense. Any muffler with enough restriction would stuff transfers to a point? Like Brad said earlier in this thread, if that makes a 461 stratified then that makes a 660,441,460 and on down stratified on the exhaust side also?

 

[MustangMike]

Certainly don't want to drive away the real gear heads, when it comes to FE Ford motors I once was one. But I don't want to drive away the others either, IMHO, the site works when we all participate.

We will all be bigger people if we can disagree w/o insulting one another.

Doug, I would love to see that 462, but I think it will be after the 661 returns, which could take a while. I hope the 462 is as light and compact as the 461, even if it retains the old AV system.

 

[KG441c]

Maybe Stihl has paid off the EPA, and needs a good story?

I'm not privy to the engineering on the 461, but I do know it was a stopgap to appease the EPA. Hence the parts interchangeability with the 460. The replacement saw is well in the works (462?)

Stihl says the stuffer is there to direct the fuel charge to provide cooling to the piston.

maybe 462c Doug? I can say that Ken at Stihl Tech told me back in November when I called asking about a 461c, that if they kept the 461 in the Stihl lineup that it wouldnt be until 2015 until it went mtronics

 

[Mastermind]

This thread has had.....

216 Replies, and 2982 views.
No one wants to tell me this....

This layer of exhaust gas that is being used as a boundary layer. How is it any different than what is already in the combustion chamber and muffler. If a person takes time to think, rather than just quote what Stihl has said about this engine, they would see that there is no difference and that this "design" is just a marketing ploy.

 

[mdavlee]

That's it I'm selling my 088. Its a strato and they suck

 

[KG441c]

That's it I'm selling my 088. Its a strato and they suck


Ill take it!