Octane question
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Kodiak Kid
Idiot with a "power saw"
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How dose the gas pressurize in the fuel tank when the tank is vented? I don't think I've ever had that problem, nor had a vapor lock problem. That being said. My Saws don't sit for months at a time without being ran either.
The tank vent lets air in not out. One way valve on the saws I have. I have lots of saws sitting right now here. Pain in the Azz with keeping Ethanol fuel fresh.
Kodiak Kid
Idiot with a "power saw"
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Definitely makes sense now.
EPA!Definitely makes sense now.
Well said professor. There is at least 1 woodsman, you gives a fiddlers fart about your info. We are talking about chainsaws, and cutting up wood for fuel. You are on a different plane....
Yeah, BAD idea putting MoGas in your 1945 Luscombe! You'll be landing preferably in a farm, but possibly on a highway, river, lake, or a house when the valves beat the **** out of themselves and their seats. Very VERY small percentage of aircraft running MoGas as of right now. Most are in the experimental class.
I've run just about every kind of gasoline available at one point or another, and have worked on the same. Leaded fuel leaves a grayish-whitish ashy layer on EVERYTHING - piston crown, cylinder head, exhaust port if 2-stroke - intake AND exhaust valves on 4-stroke, and in the exhaust system (little muffler on a saw, or a whole system on a car, motorcycle, or off-road machine). Eventually this can foul plugs. That's why for aviation applications they sell TCP. It does a very good job at cleaning all these deposits up. If you run 100LL long enough, things will require cleaning.
As far as the health aspects of lead ... mercury ... or [insert scaaary chemical HERE], you should fear your genetics more than ANYTHING you might come in contact with throughout your life.
My mom never drank, never smoked, jogged around the neighborhood every chance she got, and never EVER bought soda or sugary snacks, much to my chagrin as a kid. She went to the doctor for EVERY little tiny thing. She was afraid of EVERYTHING - said sugar caused cancer. Said margarine cause cancer. Eggs give you heart attacks. She did everything "right", and died at 72. Genetics.
My dad passed mercury the teacher poured into his hand around the classroom when he was a kid. He rolled it around in his hand for a minute or so, marveling at its properties like every kid in that class did. After he dropped out of high school, he was in the Navy breathing in leaded fuel all day every day on the flight deck of the USS Constellation, worked with my grandfather with the door closed in the winter in their homebuilt garage on his cars and the Model T's and others of that era my grandpa used to restore, dunking parts with bare hands in gasoline, heating oil, MEK, or whatever chemical they had on hand that WORKED - no gloves, no masks - those were for PUSSIES!No EPA in those days!! He worked at Norton Company in Worcester, MA where abrasive dust clouds were breathed in for 30 years straight, plus, he chain-smoked cigarettes for 54 years straight after Red Cross "relief cigarettes" got him hooked during cleanup of the tornado of 1955 that rolled through his home town east of Worcester ... and he's still alive today. His 82nd birthday is this weekend.
My grandfather lived to 85, only because he refused treatment for the giant cancerous tumor that bulged out of his neck towards the end of his life. He said the chemo, "...was worse than the cancer!" He didn't get lung cancer from breathing in asbestos brake and clutch dust, leaded paint (and gasoline) fumes & dust for decades, nor the radioactive substances he handled that were unregulated in his youth, he didn't get skin or bone cancer from being up to his elbows in all kinds petroleum products for 7 decades of his life, and he didn't poison his family to an early grave dumping stale LEADED gas and used motor oil 100' away from his well (my grandma lived to 91) (and never mind the stuff they BURNED in those days!) - he got a random cancerous tumor on his NECK that was detected early, but after one round of chemo, he quit.
To contrast that, you'll see people who started smoking in high school, and are talking through a "talk box" at age 23. Or someone who handled asbestos insulation for a half hour in their 20's, and end up with mesothelioma in their 40's. It's all genetics - some things will get ya if your body is so inclined.
I'm either going to die at 71 or 72 like my maternal grandfather or my mom, OR, I'll live to my mid 80's like my paternal grandpa and my dad. Not going to sit here and worry about which one it'll be. I just live life when I can afford to, since at the end of the day, no matter what you THINK might kill you doesn't matter in the slightest. It's your GENETICS that WILL kill you.
That's why this guy that's petrified of heights flies paramotors. I'm 100x more likely to die of an asthma or heart attack, or choking on food thanks to 5 decades of asthma medication side-effects.
View attachment 1051595
Has to be, hands down, the longest, most boring post since filing re-coil handles.
Here's a fun video I shot this summer. Enjoy!
Kodiak Kid
Idiot with a "power saw"
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Smitty Smithsonite
ArboristSite Operative
Just because it's "approved" doesn't mean everyone is using it. A TINY, minuscule percentage of pilots are. Why change what has worked for 100 years, especially when your life and others on the ground depend on it?
The stuff that can run it without worry is modern. Ever price an aircraft built in the past 10 years? Astronomical. The venerable Cessna 172 sells at around 3/4 of a MILLION dollars ... Not too many people lining up to buy new aircraft these days as compared to older stuff.
On top of that, it's a tiny, minuscule percentage of airports that even carry it on site.
I used to run 87 ethanol yrs ago until fuel lines started going bad. After that from time to time I would run 89 nonethanol, now I just run 91 octane nonethanol. All saws are tuned for the high octane. I did run 100ll once in a while mixed 40 percent with 89 nonethanol just for the fun of it. If my mix I use now sits for more than 6 monthes I add a quart of 100ll mix to 3 quarts of regular mix. I also use Klotz octane booster from time to time. It's worked well for me. IF I know the fuel is going to sit for more than a few monthes I add the Klotz right away. Klotz Octane Booster also has fuel stabilizers in it. All you have to add is one ounce per gallon.
This is correct in regards to usage
As for the why change part. Lead is bad, period. At some point 100LL will go away because of this reason alone.
Smitty Smithsonite
ArboristSite Operative
People tell me it's bad ... but if it were REALLY as bad as they say, wouldn't every single one of our ancestors be retarded? Or have lung cancer? Of course we were all smart enough to not HUFF exhaust back in the day ...
My grandfather was a brilliant mechanic, and jack-of-all-trades. He milled his own lumber, and built his own tractor out of a Model T and 2 transmissions in series to haul the logs out of the woods to build his house when the bank refused to loan him money. He hunted and sold pelts and cleaned and repaired oil burners for boilers all through the Depression, was a machinist at Norton Co. - I have some of his custom made tools still in his original Snap-On tool box. He restored Model T parts right up until the week he died. He was far from mentally challenged.
My grandfather was a brilliant mechanic, and jack-of-all-trades. He milled his own lumber, and built his own tractor out of a Model T and 2 transmissions in series to haul the logs out of the woods to build his house when the bank refused to loan him money. He hunted and sold pelts and cleaned and repaired oil burners for boilers all through the Depression, was a machinist at Norton Co. - I have some of his custom made tools still in his original Snap-On tool box. He restored Model T parts right up until the week he died. He was far from mentally challenged.
I won't argue that with you. The science on it is settled and has been for decades.
Joseph W Santora
ArboristSite Operative
To get back on topic. Mogas is great to run in CHAINSAWS. ( 91 octane E0 Mogas has 3%-5% more BTUs/gallon than 100LL)
I could see it having more BTU than E10, but more than Avgas? Where did you get that information?
Anecdotal evidence is real to the people that experience it, that is their day to day experience and knowledge.
Its extremely difficult for some to cognitively process that what they see in first person is a single irrelevant data point compared to a properly conducted study on statistically relevant population which will yield an outcome. Whether their experience falls within the expected results or outside of them is not really significant.
Joseph W Santora
ArboristSite Operative
Interesting.
Mo gas = e-free high test.
Not exactly. Looks like it has to meet an additional ASTM spec it also has to be 93 octane e free. I haven't seen 93 e free octane in a long time.
