OWB installed but with problems

[i'mstihlaguy]

Finally finished and been online for eight days now. Started putting in the underground lines in mid December just before the OWB arrived at the dealer. I tried to limit the number of pictures and yet still show enough detail.

Underground lines (Part 1):

The black pipe insulation is the higher grade stuff and cost just under $1 per ft. I put it on the supply line only.

Preparing the Solar Guard for wrapping.

Solar Guard wrapped.

Added a layer of R13 fiberglass insulation then wrapped with plastic to keep it together.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

Underground lines (Part 2)

Threading on the drain sock so the plastic wrap doesn't stick to the inside of the 6" corrugated pipe.

Ready to thread into the currugated pipe. The 70 ft run slid through with little effort.

 

[mschoff]

nice

Looks good what model owb you getting and were in Indiana are you I am up outside Laporte. Michael

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

Laying the underground in the trench

Empty trench. OWB is not set in the correct location yet because I used Aluma PEX and wanted to let it stick up then trim to fit. Its hard to bend in tight places.

To the right you can see the end of the 6" sch 40 sleeve I put through the poured concrete wall to extend just beyond the 6 ft porch.

Put down about a 6" sand bed. We have lots of sharp rocks.

Splice between sch 40 and corrugated pipe.

Covering with sand.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

My helper

Couldn't resist posting a photo of my little helper.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

Side arm and HX bypass

My solution to keeping the side arm as low as possible.

Bypass for water to air HX. I have unions so the piping to the HX can be removed to allow me to take out the HX for the AC season.

 

[Biker Dude]

Nice! I wish I would have had a long porch to assist me in making my tubes instead of doing it in my basement. So what problems are you having?

 

[Butch(OH)]

Looken good

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

Clear Flame model CF-30

Still need to insulate the exposed return line.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

And now the problems

I was only around to load the stove in the dark both morning and evening so I really didn't notice that the blower had never ran other than when it brought the water up to operation temp. the first time. It was able to smolder and still keep above the lower SP. I have creosote build up every where. Dealer said check the loading door and ash door for leaks. Sure enough both were not sealing.

This is after only a few days of operation.

I adjusted both doors but I am still not convinced everything is sealed up. The blower does kick on but only after several hours. It keeps our ~3200 sq. ft. house at 75 degress very easily and takes several hours to pull the water temp. down from the upper SP of 170 degrees to the lower SP of 160 degrees. HX pulls about 18 degrees out with the air handler running. Otherwise, there is about a 4 degree drop from side arm and all other losses. Circulator pump runs non-stop of course.

Here the smoke output on the non-burn cycle.

Some of you might have noticed the mass of ice in one of the earlier photos.

Yes, it appears I have a leak. I called the dealer and he said could just be condensation so keep an eye on it. Its hard to be objective about a drip...drip...drip leak so I put a bucket under it. I get about 2 gallons in a 24 hour period. Called him back up and he said he will be out with the welder. Warranty does say they reserve the right to repair or replace at its discretion any defective part, in whole or in part. Should I be more concerned? Should I demand a new stove? Maybe I am just being too nervous.

Thanks to all who patiently answered all of my questions throughout the last couple of months. There are alot of things that I would have missed if it weren't for all of the knowledgeable people here at AS.

 

[iCreek]

I get about 2 gallons in a 24 hour period. Called him back up and he said he will be out with the welder. Warranty does say they reserve the right to repair or replace at its discretion any defective part, in whole or in part. Should I be more concerned? Should I demand a new stove? Maybe I am just being too nervous.

I would want to be there when they are "welding it up". If it appears to be a huge problem, I would probably demand a new stove. If the repair goes smooth, you learn a little more about your stove.

Nice looking install and stove, congrats and thanks for sharing your pics.

 

[Butch(OH)]

You lost me there on the blower deal, are you saying that it keeps up without ever coming on, or that it calls for heat and the blower doesnt run meaning the flapper opens and natural draft is enough to keep up? Blower not running very often is good as long as temps are being maintained, means less BTUs being consumed and less wood burning. Two different problems there. Smoke after the hi limit shuts the draft down is normal, espcialy right after it shuts down. If the draft is off for several hours it should all but quit smoking, if not you have air leaks at the ash or loading doors. A person can pick his brand and search the 'net and there are posts about leaks. Some brands are mentioned a lot, some few but all are mentioned. A bummer that you got one of the leakers, I hope they stand behind it and fix it right, and ONCE. The creosote build up on the door is normal, higher limit settings helps that some but at the cost of wood. I just keep a H-D 4" putty knife at the boiler and scrape the door and jamb down once a week or so.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Yes, it appears I have a leak. I called the dealer and he said could just be condensation so keep an eye on it. Its hard to be objective about a drip...drip...drip leak so I put a bucket under it. I get about 2 gallons in a 24 hour period. Called him back up and he said he will be out with the welder. Warranty does say they reserve the right to repair or replace at its discretion any defective part, in whole or in part. Should I be more concerned? Should I demand a new stove? Maybe I am just being too nervous.

Thanks to all who patiently answered all of my questions throughout the last couple of months. There are alot of things that I would have missed if it weren't for all of the knowledgeable people here at AS.

That seems REAL excessive to me. I have a CB with no blower but the only time I get water/condenation is when I first start it up in the fall. That is from temperature inversion because of heating all the water up from ambiant temperature. Never more than a few drips and probably have lass than a half pint all year.

Is your wood seasoned or snow covered/rained on? I put mine in a building to solve that I as never liked standing out in the rain + the wood stays dry as well and put the whole seasons amount in there.

Has the water level on your stove gone down? Some say they have to add all the time but I've added nothing in 7 years and it's still at the same level as I marked it with paint stick.

Does your water temp go more than 2 degrees over your set amount? If it doesn't then that tells me your sealed good enough. Only when it ramps up would I be concerned. A few degrees is normal if it a realing raging fire that is choked.

Your install looks great! The only thing I did that I'd suggets to others is to put a 4 inch tile under the gravel/sand surrounded feed line. Never hurts to go overkill with that aspect.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

Looks good what model owb you getting and were in Indiana are you I am up outside Laporte. Michael

It is a Clear Flame model CF-30 and I live outside of Jasonville which is about 40 minutes south of Terre Haute.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

I would want to be there when they are "welding it up". If it appears to be a huge problem, I would probably demand a new stove. If the repair goes smooth, you learn a little more about your stove.

Nice looking install and stove, congrats and thanks for sharing your pics.

Good suggestion. I asked when he would be there but he couldn't tell me for sure. Said he would call first. My work is 50 miles away so I can't get there real quick. If I only knew which day for sure then I would just miss work. Been needing an excuse for that anyway.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

From the looks of those icycles....you have a leak. Condensation problems would have gone away shortly after you got the fire going......it certainly would have stopped dripping unless you are still thawing out some kind of an large iceburg inside the metal covering. In the dead of winter the air has very little moisture to give up and condensation is not much of an issue. If you had filled your OWB when the air was 90 degrees and humid and you filled it up with 60 degree groundwater.......then condensation would have been more pronounced.

If your house is well insulated and not drafty, it is normal for the furnace to have long cycles in the smolder mode even when the house is calling for heat. Water stores a lot of energy and the 200 or so gallons of water will give up the heat to the house and the water temperature will drop pretty slowly. After a winter you will get used to guessing how much wood to throw in to last until the next filling.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

You lost me there on the blower deal, are you saying that it keeps up without ever coming on, or that it calls for heat and the blower doesnt run meaning the flapper opens and natural draft is enough to keep up? Blower not running very often is good as long as temps are being maintained, means less BTUs being consumed and less wood burning. Two different problems there. Smoke after the hi limit shuts the draft down is normal, espcialy right after it shuts down. If the draft is off for several hours it should all but quit smoking, if not you have air leaks at the ash or loading doors. A person can pick his brand and search the 'net and there are posts about leaks. Some brands are mentioned a lot, some few but all are mentioned. A bummer that you got one of the leakers, I hope they stand behind it and fix it right, and ONCE. The creosote build up on the door is normal, higher limit settings helps that some but at the cost of wood. I just keep a H-D 4" putty knife at the boiler and scrape the door and jamb down once a week or so.

Butch,
Initially, the house would call for heat and pull the boiler temp. down to about 162 deg. which is 2 deg. above lower set point without kicking on the forced air draft (blower). Could be wrong but I don't think it has capability to control damper flapper only. There's nothing in the manual about it and I would hear it. Boiler temp. would climb back up to 170 and sometimes overshoot to 174-176 deg. There were definate problems with door seals. If you bumped the loading door, the handle would actually rotate up (against gravity) a little bit and let the door move back. It may have been doing that and I just didn't notice. Ash door latch was crooked because one of two bolts was loose so it wasn't pulling the door tight either. Both doors have adjustment on latch and hinge side. I adjusted both and now the boiler temp. will eventually go down to 160 deg and the blower kicks on. It just takes forever. The photo shows smoke output along time after a burn cycle. I was under the impression that it would cycle a little more often to get a hot burn to reduce creosote build up. I realize that will burn more wood though. Maybe all the crosote on the door gaskets are keeping it from sealing up tight?

 

[Butch(OH)]

Butch,
Initially, the house would call for heat and pull the boiler temp. down to about 162 deg. which is 2 deg. above lower set point without kicking on the forced air draft (blower). Could be wrong but I don't think it has capability to control damper flapper only. There's nothing in the manual about it and I would hear it. Boiler temp. would climb back up to 170 and sometimes overshoot to 174-176 deg. There were definate problems with door seals. If you bumped the loading door, the handle would actually rotate up (against gravity) a little bit and let the door move back. It may have been doing that and I just didn't notice. Ash door latch was crooked because one of two bolts was loose so it wasn't pulling the door tight either. Both doors have adjustment on latch and hinge side. I adjusted both and now the boiler temp. will eventually go down to 160 deg and the blower kicks on. It just takes forever. The photo shows smoke output along time after a burn cycle. I was under the impression that it would cycle a little more often to get a hot burn to reduce creosote build up. I realize that will burn more wood though. Maybe all the crosote on the door gaskets are keeping it from sealing up tight?

OK sounds like your controls and blower are working correctly. All OWBs will overshoot the set hi limit, how much depends on what is in it for wood and demand. My woodmaster records the highest temp reached and I think it is at 189 and that is with a 170 set point. probably was last fall on a warm day when the only load was domestic. Yes the creosote can cause door problems. I find it easier to scrape the door once week. One thing that every air tight wood burner needs is adjustable doors IMO and my Woodmaster doesn't have them My short term "fix" has been to knock the door latch arm with a hammer, only have had to do it twice in three years. Next time I will put a new door gasket in, hopefully next summer while down. Banging the latch will eventually take its toll, I am mentally working on a field fit-able fix for mine.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

That seems REAL excessive to me. I have a CB with no blower but the only time I get water/condenation is when I first start it up in the fall. That is from temperature inversion because of heating all the water up from ambiant temperature. Never more than a few drips and probably have lass than a half pint all year.

Is your wood seasoned or snow covered/rained on? I put mine in a building to solve that I as never liked standing out in the rain + the wood stays dry as well and put the whole seasons amount in there.


Has the water level on your stove gone down? Some say they have to add all the time but I've added nothing in 7 years and it's still at the same level as I marked it with paint stick.

Does your water temp go more than 2 degrees over your set amount? If it doesn't then that tells me your sealed good enough. Only when it ramps up would I be concerned. A few degrees is normal if it a realing raging fire that is choked.

Your install looks great! The only thing I did that I'd suggets to others is to put a 4 inch tile under the gravel/sand surrounded feed line. Never hurts to go overkill with that aspect.

Kevin,
Wood is well seasoned but is exposed to the weather. I knock off all the snow before it goes into the stove. I have been burning mostly a mixture of wild cherry and maple. A shed is on the schedule for this year.

Water level has gone down. Dealer said make sure you check it when the boiler temp. is the same or it will be different. That's when he said to keep an eye on it the first time. When I told him I collected two gallons in the bucket in 24 hours, he said he would bring the welder.

The stove will overshoot by 4 to 6 degrees sometimes.

Not sure what you mean with the 4" tile. I have a 10" corrugate sleeve that goes through the slab and fits snuggly to the bottom of the OWB. The 6" corrugated containing the PEX goes through the 10" sleeve and into the bottom of the boiler.

 

[i'mstihlaguy]

If your house is well insulated and not drafty, it is normal for the furnace to have long cycles in the smolder mode even when the house is calling for heat. Water stores a lot of energy and the 200 or so gallons of water will give up the heat to the house and the water temperature will drop pretty slowly. After a winter you will get used to guessing how much wood to throw in to last until the next filling.

Water capacity is 150 gallons for this unit. Next size up was 300 gallons but it was huge and another $1K. I was concerned initially but like I said, it has no difficulty keeping up. Before I knew the doors were leaking, I started backing off on the amount of wood I put in. I almost had to run it out to get the boiler temp. to fall below 160 so the blower would kick on. That's when I called the dealer.