Petroleum based vs Synthetic Mixes

[tundraotto]

Originally posted by Fish
Otto, otto, otto!
So tell us in plain english why this synthetic sham is legit.

The saw lasts longer?
Saying it is cheap insurance does not quite cut it.
You are over your head Otto. BWalker is not coming to your aid.
There is no proof/data that synthetic anything will help at all.
Let it rest.

fisher youre drinking the antifreeze again - i ve told you a million times what the advantage is - no sham - less wear on the engine. Even you as at least a semi-qualified technician who hammers straight crankshafts on pushmowers checks for compression[\B]. Well in those terms this liquid reduces the friction between the rubbing surfaces better (ie. redneck to english dictionary (use it all the time) = piston & cylinder). This results in longer life because its more slippery (redneck to english again...)

voila.... have fun. I agree sometimes with bwalkers and s%$$ out fishers, all the time. Canola oil 50:1!!!! all the way !!!

 

[tundraotto]

Originally posted by Fish

Saying it is cheap insurance does not quite cut it.

cheap insurance? who the f*&$ talked about insurance??? its just a little EXTRA like ive got on my hip (btw. not fat rolls) for you it'll cut it I promise...

 

[rbtree]

Go fish...


ing!!!

Hmm, I just read stuff, I'm no authority, but I've seen lots of data showing lower coefficients of friction from synthetics, as well as higher power on the dyno. Some products, like Energy Release, and additive, not an oil, claim to have metal conditioning properties. Bwalker and others have tried to debunk these claims. I dont know squat, but have seen data from ER showing Falex tests ( a pressure test on a bearing) that are dramatically better-ER and oil versus mineral based oil.

Anyhow, I usually put some ER in with my Husky mix, of which I have 5 gallons for about $80. Used to run it at 45 or 50-1, now 32-1 or so. You guys have pretty much convinced me to switch to the Motul or Maxima K2.

A chain saw miller I talked with on another board uses Opti-2 at 75-1, and has many others using it, with no failures yet. Milling is a lot harder on a saw than normal use, it sounds like. Still, that ratio doesn't seem safe, based on what the 2 cycle racing synthetic guidelines are.

 

[rbtree]

Hey otto ya bum.

I never saw anything like this when i lived in Searcy.... but that was a century ago.....

Hey i got some emu oil, think my saws will like its taste?

 

[don]

Talking about rednecks

Know a guy who was getting the oil from coveyor sumps at a rock quarry and mixing it with regular oil putting it in to tractors he was hired to maintain. Until ... one of the tractors started to burn oil.

He figuired mixing 90 wt with 20 wt would compensate for the 40wt deisel oil he was suppose to be using.

Now that is a redneck.

 

[don]

Stihl 2 cycle oil.

Was told by a guy up in BC Stihl oil is made by Castrol in Toronto.
He also said some Stihl users in the area are testing a 100:1 Stihl oil coming out in 2003.

The difference between the orange Stihl oil and the black stihl oil is the gas stabilizer additive and nothing else.

Called the Stihl tech rep to confirm and he wasn't sure but the schoolin received by Stihl only talked about the stabilizer qualities in Stihl black label.

 

[bwalker]

Was told by a guy up in BC Stihl oil is made by Castrol in Toronto.

Don, Not true. Stihl oil for Ca and the Us is made by exxon and packaged by someone else.
The black bottle oil is also different. Take alook at the MSDS file for it on Stihsl site. Its pretty apparent from the file that it is a syn blend hence the low smoke claim.

 

[bwalker]

ER showing Falex tests ( a pressure test

Roger, When you see a company try to use falex test to show the superiority of a motor oil I would stear clear. The falex test is only relivant when testing gear oils under EP. EP rarely occurs in a motor or two cycle oil hence they have no EP additives. to deal with it.

 

[Fish]

Saw failures can be blamed on on lean seizures, not wear.
You could not possibly even claim synthetic oil mixes give you
even a minute of longer saw life. To claim such, you must be
totally dillousional. If not, totally an Oakie/Arkie redneck,who could
be sold into slavery on the synthetic/slick50/splitfire plug bandwagon very easily. Only by the grace of God and fine forums
such as this one, you can have contact with rational and sentient
beings to guide you toward the light of truth. Sorry about the
regional and civil war motiffs, but it fits.

 

[tundraotto]

your ignorance never seizes to amase me fish saw failures attributed only to lean seizures? wake up!! why do loggers trade in saws when they wear out? because of lean seizures? I dont think so. When compression is shot from wear even a backdoor mechanic such as yourself should now the results. Every single top race team of any sort on 2 or 4 wheels uses synthetics - do think they are on to something you might not comprehend? The dirt track racers in Kentucky might use old hydraulic oil in their buggies but you wont see it in F1, IRL/CART etc....

The synthetics DO reduce wear whether you like it or not and you can keep using straight 30weight mixed with your gas if you like - who makes you an authority to discredit synthetics? THERE IS NO BANDWAGON!!! Only one disillusioned here is you. Like I said before, if it is raining outside its raining whether you believe in rain or not.

You might want to take a course or something to catch up on modern engine technology and study a little ( NO A HECK OF A LOT ACTUALLY) about properties of lubricants. Its very obvious your mechanical knowledge if from the 1940s and youre out of date and certainly out of school. Thats all, I'm done beating this dead horse, and I'm sure you have lawnmower crankshafts to straighten out so I'm done with you too.

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

Otto,

Calm down man before you have a heartattack or something just kiddin Your right though synthetics DO work thats all I run for oil's in my Quick Street drag car and it's making alot more hp than a saw I have done dyno test's with conventional oil and a test with synthetics and there is a difference even in HP with the synthetic my motor picked up almost 8hp.So you can guess what I run for oil in it now....Maybe I should stop being ignorant and buy some synthetic mix for my new saws

Later Rob....

 

[Fish]

Now that is the "kinder" and "gentler" Otto I am talking about!


Is that the best you got? "Synthetics is better because we say
so!".?

Very few saws are retired due to engine wear, none due to
wear caused by non'synthetic oil. I have endured classrooms
run by synthetic oil nuts, and they all have the same infomercial
tone. Actually I chose to go to synthetics in the truck shop
I was over, even though it doubled our servive costs per truck
from the get go. I figured it was worth a try. But in saw mix,
I think it is a silly fight, as the failures that retire a saw are not
cylinder/wear related, but lean/seizure on a worn out saw related
But I am glad Otto still is alive and well.

 

[stihltech]

wear

Lean seize and dirt ingestion. THAT is where the wear comes from.

 

[Fish]

You go girl!
Oprah

 

[bwalker]

Not all saws ingest dirt and or lean seize. Some wear out on there own accord. For people who care about there equipment synthetics are a useful in reduceing depositsd and prolonging life. Synthetics will also take more heat before a lean seizure happens, so a moron who cannot tune there HS screw properly can get away with more heat before damages occurs..

 

[Fish]

So the question for all of the saw mechanics here would be.
How many saws do you rebuild that are not the product of lean
seizure? My guess would be none.

 

[Fish]

Or how many saws they rebuild because the owner used the recommended oil?
It seems the synthetic and the high octane fight takes the same
path.

 

[Fish]

Also.why do all of the hotsaw modifiers remain silent on these particular threads? Is it because it is a non-issue?

 

[don]

You're fishing

I am no hotsaw racer but I have raced other equipment and I know there are secrets everyone might know but don't talk about.
Just because someone isn't saying anything makes the alternative outcome true (unless it is the only outcome.)

For a hotsaw not to use some thing that may give them the extra .001 second of finish time ahead of the other guy well .... makes them second. Will synthetics do it, wouldn't hurt.
Synthetics can be designed to be more slippery and reduce friction ... the bottom line is more power to the chain.

Way off course for this topic.

Fish you've been caught speaking for a sector of the saw industry that has remained silent. (Unless you are a hotsaw racer)

you also omitted alternative likelihoods for the silent hotsawers.

You're right fish I shouldn't buy the synthetic oil so I can allocate the savings for the overhaul which would happen anyway.

The synthetic makes me feel better and I think my saw is happy to, so there. I know cause it talks to me all the time and winter progresses we will have in debt sessions.

 

[Stumper]

I've had several saws rebuilt. Never siezed one. Ran em lots of hours and eventually compression dropped due to wear. Never worried much about oil brands/specs in the past but ran 32:1.
Personally I want to use "better" oils if they ARE better. Just because I never had an oil related failure doesn't mean I wouldn't like to get an extra 10% or 25% or Whatever hours before rebuilding!