Pioneer chainsaws

[labwaste]

Thanks propliner, I will keep any eye out for the other models as well. Do you happen to know if the cylinder head from a Pioneer Farmsaw will work?

Thanks

 

[propliner]

P41

No, the Farmsaw cylinder won't work. It uses a different coil mounting boss.

 

[labwaste]

Cool, Thanks

 

[Busmech]

P41

P45 And 455 won't work in a P41 cylinder, they are for larger bore. PP405 will work

 

[propliner]

P41

Thanks, Busmech. I guess I should research these things a little better.

 

[briantutt]

Brian, the initial setting is 1 1/4 turns out. If your piston has a bad skirt (spitting fuel out the carb) it won't idle. If it has low compression it won't idle. Also, if the crank seals are bad it won't idle.

They are finicky saws with those single-needle carbs. Everything else needs to be perfect in order for it to idle properly.

Okay, I screwed up. It's my Poulan S25DA that is spitting fuel. The 1073 is not. So that leaves low compression and crank seals. I work as a design engineer for a regulator company so I could do a low pressure case leak test without a lot of trouble. What is more likely low comp. or leak? The piston above the ring is scored if that helps....

 

[Jacob J.]

Hi guys,

Anyone know of a good place to find parts for a Pioneer P41 saw? I am looking for a piston (with wrist pin, clips, etc) and cylinder head.

I posted in the swap meet thread as well, just wondering if there was a place outside of ebay people have had luck finding parts.

Thanks

I think I have a good used cylinder and piston with new thin rings for P-41. I'll check tomorrow or the next day.

 

[propliner]

1073

Okay, I screwed up. It's my Poulan S25DA that is spitting fuel. The 1073 is not. So that leaves low compression and crank seals. I work as a design engineer for a regulator company so I could do a low pressure case leak test without a lot of trouble. What is more likely low comp. or leak? The piston above the ring is scored if that helps....

A compression check would be easier to do so I'd start there. Does the saw run differently when you tip it on its side? Sometimes that's a sign of bad crank seals. It can also mean an overly rich condition though. Have you tried adjusting the carb screw in and out to find a good setting while it's running? You might have to set the idle screw with a richer setting and a higher idle to compensate.

Do you have a new spark plug in it and are you getting a good blue spark at lower rpm's?

 

[briantutt]

A compression check would be easier to do so I'd start there. Does the saw run differently when you tip it on its side? Sometimes that's a sign of bad crank seals. It can also mean an overly rich condition though. Have you tried adjusting the carb screw in and out to find a good setting while it's running? You might have to set the idle screw with a richer setting and a higher idle to compensate.

Do you have a new spark plug in it and are you getting a good blue spark at lower rpm's?

It doesn't seem to run any different on either side. But I have to keep it running at about mid-speed using the trigger to do this test. I do not have a compression tester so I can't do that until I rustle one up. The plug is new and when I lay it against the motor and pull the cord I see nice blue spark. I also have tried to adjust the carb setting but I have the idle screw turned all the way in so I can's make it more rich and use the screw to compensate...

 

[propliner]

1073

With the screw all the way in the idle is at its leanest setting. Turn the screw out to richen the idle. There is no high speed adjustment on those carbs and that's what makes them so frustrating to adjust. Quite often you can get either a good idle or a good runner at top speed, but if there is something else wrong with the saw you can't get both.

 

[briantutt]

With the screw all the way in the idle is at its leanest setting. Turn the screw out to richen the idle. There is no high speed adjustment on those carbs and that's what makes them so frustrating to adjust. Quite often you can get either a good idle or a good runner at top speed, but if there is something else wrong with the saw you can't get both.

When I said idle screw I meant the one that moves the armature that moves the same piece the trigger does, it is crewed in as far as it can go. The idle mixture "needle valve" is set approx 1 1/4 turns out from "all the way in" and seems like it is in the best place for making it run.

I have reasonably "good runner" when reved but can't make it idle no matter where I set the mixture needle.

 

[propliner]

1073

Well I guess the idle speed screw could be too short to hold the butterfly open enough. It should only need a maximum of 1-2mm from the resting position on the carb case though and anything more than that would likely be another problem.

I have had a couple of problems with the idle circuits on those carbs (presumably from blockage) and after a run through an ultrasonic cleaner they worked great.

If you move the mixture screw further out, what happens?

 

[briantutt]

Well I guess the idle speed screw could be too short to hold the butterfly open enough. It should only need a maximum of 1-2mm from the resting position on the carb case though and anything more than that would likely be another problem.

I have had a couple of problems with the idle circuits on those carbs (presumably from blockage) and after a run through an ultrasonic cleaner they worked great.

If you move the mixture screw further out, what happens?

I will try backing out the mixture screw this evening.

When you say 1-2 mm do you mean how far the armature moves from it's all the way back position if the idle speed screw were not there? I circled the parts on the attached IPL page.

And what is the "idle circuit"

 

[ArchAngel613]

Help with chainsaw

Ive recently gotten a Pioneer P28 chainsaw inorder to resore and use it in a project. before i started this tho i needed to make sure it was in perfect running condition. After cleaning it out fully and getting it to run flawlessly...i was hit with gasoline:jawdrop:. It turnd out there was a tube coming from the gastank and past the carb through a hole to beside the saw blade..At first i thot this was for oil but after realizing it was self oiling i knew that that was wrong. After taking the gass cap off i realized blowing in this "extra" tube that wasnt connected to anything, that it was indeed conected to the gas tank. this concerns me as if i tilt the chainsaw or shut it off..gas will come out. now since this is my first p28 and the scematic i got was no help at all.. i was hoping someone could give me some insight into why i have this tube here...any help will be appreciated

 

[briantutt]

Ive recently gotten a Pioneer P28 chainsaw inorder to resore and use it in a project. before i started this tho i needed to make sure it was in perfect running condition. After cleaning it out fully and getting it to run flawlessly...i was hit with gasoline:jawdrop:. It turnd out there was a tube coming from the gastank and past the carb through a hole to beside the saw blade..At first i thot this was for oil but after realizing it was self oiling i knew that that was wrong. After taking the gass cap off i realized blowing in this "extra" tube that wasnt connected to anything, that it was indeed conected to the gas tank. this concerns me as if i tilt the chainsaw or shut it off..gas will come out. now since this is my first p28 and the scematic i got was no help at all.. i was hoping someone could give me some insight into why i have this tube here...any help will be appreciated

Pretty sure that's the gas tank air vent. My jonsered 70E has that and if I lay it on the bar side it leaks out. I think there is supposed to be some sort of filter or check valve or something on the end of the tube per my schematic but it's missing on mine. I bet the tube you describe is the same exact thing and why the vent it over by the chain seems insane to me but they did. (pull in air to the gas tank which you try to keep clean by getting air form the dirtiest environment in the whole area) anyway that's what it is...:chainsawguy:

 

[propliner]

1073

When you say 1-2 mm do you mean how far the armature moves from it's all the way back position if the idle speed screw were not there?

Brian, yes that's what I mean. Idle circuit is the internal passageway that delivers the fuel at idle.

I'd get the compression checked as the next step to rule that out.

 

[propliner]

P28

ArchAngel, that tube is connected to the case just aft of the fuel tank vent. If you look at the left side of the case under the top of the flywheel you'll see a round silver plug. Behind that plug is the fuel tank vent. It consists of a rubber stopper that is pressed against a small hole and held there by spring pressure. The silver cap holds it all in place. At a certain pressure the gas can escape around the stopper and out into the drain tube you are talking about. It seems like a funny place for the gas fumes to exit but that's standard, behind the clutch area.

Just another note, the rubber stoppers deteriorate with age. I had two new ones in original packaging that turned to mush from old age. You will probably not be able to find a vent kit but you never know. If yours is leaking when the saw is cold and tipped on that side I'd say that the stopper is rotted away.

Same goes for 1073, 1074, P21, P25, P26 and 2073 models.

 

[briantutt]

Brian, yes that's what I mean. Idle circuit is the internal passageway that delivers the fuel at idle.

I'd get the compression checked as the next step to rule that out.

So if the compression checks out good maybe I need to actually pull the welch plug in the carb and clean that passage?

 

[propliner]

1073

So if the compression checks out good maybe I need to actually pull the welch plug in the carb and clean that passage?

That would work, too. Be careful as I think I remember a small plastic piece just under the welch plug (it might have been on a 3270). If you can find an ultrasonic cleaner they work miracles. I have three saws that run like new after treating carbs in that machine. Just strip the carb down, (no need to pull the welch plug) and 30 minutes of cleaning in a mild solution does it every time. Then a new carb kit and off to the races.

Have you set the metering lever flush with the floor of the carb?

Have you cleaned and set the points? The timing is dependent on that as I'm sure you know already.

If after eliminating these things (including compression) you are still having trouble, I can lend you a new carb to try.

If it still doesn't idle then I'd say weak ignition.

 

[Brmorgan]

I found this Pioneer 2071 at a local dump yesterday:

I know, it's a mess, but free is free! It immediately felt low on compression and the gas line was pretty much tar in the gas tank, so I just ripped it down today. The piston is scored only above the rings, which are still fine. The cylinder has some marks above the exhaust port and it appears the plating is flaking off slightly below the port, however I cannot feel either by hand. So a new piston alone might be all I need, though if the plating is in fact flaking away, I'm not sure how long the cyl. would last. I also need a wrist pin bearing and an air filter. I'm going to my friend's place tomorrow to see if he has any parts on his big Pioneer shelf.

One other question - Does anyone know a paint code for the old Pioneer yellow? Since this one's practically devoid of paint already, I figured I'd strip what remains and learn how to use my paint gun. Any tips on that front? I've never painted before, I got the gun for $3 at a yard sale last year. It looks unused and I've since seen near-identical guns for almost $100. I don't really know anything about preparing these or priming them either.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that this saw appears to be identical to the Holiday 970 model, which did not have an enclosed rear handle. So I'm thinking a P/C etc. from that saw should work too.