Pioneer chainsaws

[propliner]

2071

Brmorgan, the piston part# is 507473150. Wrist pin bearing # is 507427622. It's the same piston as used on the 970, P20 though P25, the 1073 and the 1074. Unfortunately, they are hard to find.
Nice score by the way, I'd love to see that thing all fixed up. I'm wondering if you can find a carb kit for that one.

 

[briantutt]

That would work, too. Be careful as I think I remember a small plastic piece just under the welch plug (it might have been on a 3270). If you can find an ultrasonic cleaner they work miracles. I have three saws that run like new after treating carbs in that machine. Just strip the carb down, (no need to pull the welch plug) and 30 minutes of cleaning in a mild solution does it every time. Then a new carb kit and off to the races.

Have you set the metering lever flush with the floor of the carb?

Have you cleaned and set the points? The timing is dependent on that as I'm sure you know already.

If after eliminating these things (including compression) you are still having trouble, I can lend you a new carb to try.

If it still doesn't idle then I'd say weak ignition.

Where I work we have an ultrasonic cleaner with alkaline soap in it, I can do that with no problem. I did set the metering lever flush (but made that mistake on my 70E). I don't think my saw has points? The coil is spaced away from the flywheel with a magnet embedded in the flywheel (very simple looking).

Thank You for all your advice!

 

[propliner]

1073

I don't think my saw has points?

The points are underneath the flywheel. They are covered by a plastic cap which is in turn held down by a small c-clip.

Pulling the flywheel is a necessary evil. The points gap should be printed on the plastic cap. I always change the crank seal on that side when I've disassembled the saw that far.

Make sure to put some sealant around the edge of the cap when reinstalling. Check the wires leading from the points and the condenser for fraying. I have a new wiring harness if you need one.

Another option is an electronic upgrade. It connects to the coil but I'm not too sure about the specifics.

 

[WesternSaw]

Brmorgan

Hello Brad
Do you need any IPl's for the 2071, I believe I have some that I could scan to you.
Lawrence

 

[cjcocn]

I just picked up a P26 electronic. Seems like a small saw for 51.4cc!

Is this saw worth keeping around? I was hoping for an older saw when I went to look at it, but at least it will give me something to do this weekend.

Does anyone have any manuals for this saw that they can email to me? All I have for it is the IPL.

 

[briantutt]

Pioneer 1073 Compression

Brian, yes that's what I mean. Idle circuit is the internal passageway that delivers the fuel at idle.

I'd get the compression checked as the next step to rule that out.

I bought a compression tester. I pulled about ten times on the rope. It hit 95 psi after about 4 pulls and didn't go any higher. I don't know what is good or bad though :dunno:

Also, I backed the idle adjustment screw all the way out then started it. If you split the distance the armature moves from all the way back to the clutch engaged into 4 sections I observe this. At position 4 the clutch is engaged. at 3 the saw idles well. mid position (2) is where the armature hits the adjusting screw when it's all the way in and 0 is armature all the way closest to carb with screw all the way out of the picture. distance from position 0 to 4 is approx 3mm.

I also backed the jet screw out another good 1/4 turn but it still won't idle at position 2 and seemed to lose high ends rpms when I did this.

Do I just need a longer idle adjustment screw or is the compression low?

 

[artie__bc]

I'm sure someone else can confirm, but I think that saw has an automatic decompression valve that you need to disable to get a true reading of your compression. If it really has only 95 psi, I'd be amazed if it ran at all.

 

[Brmorgan]

The 2071 I just found has the aforementioned auto decomp valve. It's a little plunger built into the cylinder, just behind the coil mounts. This plunger is pressed by a lever that is engaged when you pull the starter rope. Remove the recoil side cover of the saw and pull the rope to watch how it works. I was wondering WTF too when I first saw it, but once I removed the cylinder, I figured it out. Remove the lever from the recoil housing and it will disengage the decomp. I plan on doing this permanently for my 2071 as the piston is a bit scored as it is.

Speaking of which, I visited my friend today, and he hooked me up with the whole crankcase and top end of some nearly-identical little Pioneer for $5! It had no nameplate where mine does, so I'm thinking it's one of the newer models. The piston is slightly scored on the crown, but not nearly as bad as the one I'm replacing. Same story though, only scored above the rings. The cylinder is in much better shape, no flaking or heavy marking in the coating. It might not run like new, but it should run. At any rate, a new piston should be easier to find than a jug. Now I just need to get everything clean and stripped, and painted. I'm in the middle of building a parts washer out of an old sink I had lying around, so once that's done I'll get this thing cleaned up and hopefully blasted down too. I figured out my sandblaster, but I have no cabinet to blast in and the air soon becomes unbreathable. It would be nice to just have a cover to go over the parts washer sink so I could also blast in it, just close the drain off.

Oh, and regarding old saws running with low compression, my friend told me that back in the day, most saws would at least run with absolutely horrible compression. They might not do an honest day's work anymore, but he said they would still fire up. I think that's probably due to the (relatively) big, heavy pistons, flywheels, and cranks and their ability to store and transfer more energy (more torque). Just a theory though.


Yo Jerry, where u at with those paint numbers??? Hope you can help me out with those.

 

[pioneerguy600]

OK guys ,just got back from a 2 week trip and my computer was jammed full of correspondence, will have to work overtime for the next couple of weeks to clear it up. Have missed a lot of posts here on the Pioneer thread but I am back for a while again. I found and picked up the one missing piece for my model RA ; THE PIONEER LOGO FOR THE TOP COVER; it is a NOS piece that came right in its original box, how lucky can one guy get! I cannot get the pict to up load from my Picasa account as of yet but will work on that tonight.
Jerry

 

[pioneerguy600]

The 2071 I just found has the aforementioned auto decomp valve. It's a little plunger built into the cylinder, just behind the coil mounts. This plunger is pressed by a lever that is engaged when you pull the starter rope. Remove the recoil side cover of the saw and pull the rope to watch how it works. I was wondering WTF too when I first saw it, but once I removed the cylinder, I figured it out. Remove the lever from the recoil housing and it will disengage the decomp. I plan on doing this permanently for my 2071 as the piston is a bit scored as it is.

Speaking of which, I visited my friend today, and he hooked me up with the whole crankcase and top end of some nearly-identical little Pioneer for $5! It had no nameplate where mine does, so I'm thinking it's one of the newer models. The piston is slightly scored on the crown, but not nearly as bad as the one I'm replacing. Same story though, only scored above the rings. The cylinder is in much better shape, no flaking or heavy marking in the coating. It might not run like new, but it should run. At any rate, a new piston should be easier to find than a jug. Now I just need to get everything clean and stripped, and painted. I'm in the middle of building a parts washer out of an old sink I had lying around, so once that's done I'll get this thing cleaned up and hopefully blasted down too. I figured out my sandblaster, but I have no cabinet to blast in and the air soon becomes unbreathable. It would be nice to just have a cover to go over the parts washer sink so I could also blast in it, just close the drain off.

Oh, and regarding old saws running with low compression, my friend told me that back in the day, most saws would at least run with absolutely horrible compression. They might not do an honest day's work anymore, but he said they would still fire up. I think that's probably due to the (relatively) big, heavy pistons, flywheels, and cranks and their ability to store and transfer more energy (more torque). Just a theory though.


Yo Jerry, where u at with those paint numbers??? Hope you can help me out with those.

Hey Brad;
Got your self another project there; the Pioneer chainsaws came in a varirty of shades of yellow /green and as far as paint numbers go I have never found such a thing for them. It has always been a custom mix for the paint I use on each restore I do. The paint store I deal with can closely match any color I take in a piece of the saw and use the part with the lowest exposure to the sun and elements. They mix my color to match that and it is usually more than close enough, they are an automotive paint supplier and have the paint reader or scanner to get the info from.
Pioneerguy600

 

[briantutt]

I'm sure someone else can confirm, but I think that saw has an automatic decompression valve that you need to disable to get a true reading of your compression. If it really has only 95 psi, I'd be amazed if it ran at all.

Yes it does , rookie mistake . I will get after it and report back. Thanks

 

[briantutt]

I bought a compression tester. I pulled about ten times on the rope. It hit 95 psi after about 4 pulls and didn't go any higher. I don't know what is good or bad though :dunno:

Also, I backed the idle adjustment screw all the way out then started it. If you split the distance the armature moves from all the way back to the clutch engaged into 4 sections I observe this. At position 4 the clutch is engaged. at 3 the saw idles well. mid position (2) is where the armature hits the adjusting screw when it's all the way in and 0 is armature all the way closest to carb with screw all the way out of the picture. distance from position 0 to 4 is approx 3mm.

I also backed the jet screw out another good 1/4 turn but it still won't idle at position 2 and seemed to lose high ends rpms when I did this.

Do I just need a longer idle adjustment screw or is the compression low?

Took out the decompression lever. I tested it twice and got 112 the first time and 110 the second.

Any thougths on the real compression reading and my notes above on the throttle armature position? :dunno:Thanks:dunno:

 

[WesternSaw]

Hi Fellas
Thought you might like to see what I picked up on ebay last year.There was another one on ebay a little while ago that was in better shape than mine
Lawrence

 

[WesternSaw]

How Many?

I wonder how many of these Pioneers each one of us has that is pictured? I only have one,the 1200. I wonder how many Jerry has?
Lawrence

 

[Jacob J.]

I have the 1850....it's almost mint.

 

[Brmorgan]

I sure would like to get a closer look at the spec sheet section of that ad. Though I understand if that might be a little grey-area.

 

[seger]

This thing is up for sale over here. i believe it's a blk57

 

[propliner]

1073

Took out the decompression lever. I tested it twice and got 112 the first time and 110 the second.

Any thougths on the real compression reading and my notes above on the throttle armature position?

Brian, 110 psi is definitely in the low range. If the cylinder is in good shape, a set of rings might do the trick. Also, why not try a longer screw for the idle stop? If that's all it takes and it idles well then you might be in business. It should idle just below where the clutch engages.


Lawrence, cool ad you posted!

 

[briantutt]

That's sort of what I was thinking, Upon close inspection the corner of the aramature stamping is rounded off from use (the moon shaped piece with the holes), There is a wear spot in the adjustment screw as well. Looks the adjustemnt screw has been all the way in it's whole life.

From Lawrence's add my 1073 sure looks alot like a "holiday" model...except the 1073 has a thin flat metal guard bar running from the back of the handle to underneath the saw. (and it's not nearly as pretty)

 

[pioneerguy600]

Lawrence; many thanks for posting those adds for the Pioneer chainsaws, may mine look as good as those when I have them completed.
Pioneerguy600