Rope Guide Question

[TREETX]

Attn SEAN

This is back to the RG and the hockling issue.

I got some new Fly yesterday and gave it a whirl.

I footlocked up my old blue streak and brought the FLy with me.

Put the fly throught the rg, and tied on a distel.

Then slid down. Hockle city below me.

The part (tail) hockled below me had NEVER seen the pulley of the RG.

I think that throws the RG out of the equation.

Then I went back up, tied on a 3-2 vt and wow, even more hockles. I have always had the vt give me more hockling issues.

The 4-3 vt was the best performance.....

Just thought I would share this hockling experiment.

FYI - the fly was shipped coiled in a bag...

 

[tjk]

Been using a RG just about every day. I have been alternating between the fly and yellow jacket. In the beginning I had lots of hockling problems with both ropes more with the fly. Know I think my ropes have learned how to go thru a single pulley and my hockling issues are minimal. I can not really figure out why.

 

[NickfromWI]

Question about the ART rope guide, and also the Adjustable Friction Saver that Sherrill sells. The both consist of 3 important parts. The pulley, the big ring, and the little ring (and also the ART or prussik, but that's not important for my question.)

For set up, big ring goes around branch, pulley goes into big ring. Climbing line goes into little ring, then into pulley.

I made one this week. The prussik is just 3/8ths yalex with a locking brummel on each side. The big ring is a the ISC Posi-lock steel carabiner, and the pulley is a snag-free bow shackle: http://www.bosunsupplies.com/products2.cfm?product=S0116-NS with a petzl P00 sheave on it.

The little ring I'm stuck on. I saw in the Sherrill winter catalog that the little ring is just a small bow shackle. The thought of having to open and close that every time I wanted to install that, up in the tree, with gloves on, in the cold....just said something else is needed. I opted for a Ronstan bronze snap-shackle much like http://www.bosunsupplies.com/products2.cfm?product=S0158

The snap shackle seems to be the way to go. Installation isn't much more than the pull of a little piece of string and a quick snap shut!

It looks fine, but in action, there's a problem. I couldn't decide what size shackle to get. Too big and the splice would slip right out during retrieval, leaving the friction saver in the tree , too small and the rope wouldn't slide through easily. So I found the one that seemed to be best, and took it home.

I tried it out on the ground, and the pulley is super smooth , but the rope just barely slides through the bronze snap shackle. If the descent is slow, it's fine, but if I pull the rope through quickly, like if I were hopping from one branch down to another, the shackle gets pulled up into the pulley and sortof jams right in there I've filed the inside edges of the shackle hoping it would let the line run through a bit easier, but it only helped a tiny bit.

So my question is, "Am I missing something here?" Am I right in my assumption that the "little ring" needs to be opened, climbing line put it, then the ring shut again at every installation? I thought if I used a smaller bow shackle for the pulley, the snap-shackle wouldn't even fit inside, but I was limited in size options because I planned on using the P00 sheave as the pulley part, so it had to be big enough for that to fit.

Any advice?

love
nick

 

[hillbilly]

Nick,
on the RG that I've tried I never opened the "small ring", the bow
shackle, just threaded my climbing line through it and then through
the pulley. For retrieval I attached the small red plastic ball that
came with the RG to the end of my clibing line. The ball and line
will pass the pulley but the ball will then catch on the "small ring",
bringing the whole thing to the ground.

I made an attempt to make my own RG, but gave up since it
was nearly impossible finding rated parts over here.
A few friendly thoughts about your design.
Your pulley will fail if that one screw, located far from you
in the tree, comes loose. The original RG has a locking nut
on the outside of the shackle.

The ISC steel carabiner is, as far as I know, not rated for side-loading.
Most likely you'll want to tie-in on relatively small diameter stems where
side-loading will occur. Also it has the potential of opening itself
while rubbing against the tree, a ring works better does not.
Bosun supplies also sell steel rings...

Good luck.

 

[NickfromWI]

Thanks hillbilly. I've been looking around the house for things I could attach to the climbing line as a "retriever" (ie, little red ball).

And for what it's worth, I've put thread locker (loc-tite) on the pin of the large shackle. Would you guys trust that? I do.

love
nick

 

[hillbilly]

Here is a pic I found of the red ball attached to the end of
the climbing line for retrieval.
It has a small loop of thread attached to it, you girth hitch
that onto the splice of your climbing line.

 

[tophopper]

Nick,
Here isa pic of my rope guide I made last year. Notice the retrieval shackle on the end. It is a alum. screw link. I have used this for retrieving for almost a year now. It works so well that I have replaced the clip on my original RG with one also.
I rarely will need to open it, but if I do just screw it open then drop in the rope. But 90% of the time I just feed the rope right thru it then pass it into the pulley. How and why does it work so well? First look at a screw link from the side with gate closed. The inside diameter of the link is key shaped ( because of the gate barrell), it should be placed with narrower end positioned down,
there is just enough room at the bottom of the keyhole for a rope to run smoothly without catching. However the top of the key hole is just larger enough to pass most splices.
To install- pass splice thru top of key hole and thru pullley, to remove- just pull it back out, when your splice leaves the pulley it will fall and become jammed in the bottom of the keyhole. Does this make sense?
of coarse different ropes/ splices are the variable here, using my set up the splice on the Fly is just right, however a splice on 16 starnd is not as bulky and a small amount of tape or shrink tube just above the splice may be needed to calibrate the diameter

I have probably made close to 500 retrieves using this set up, I have only lost my rope out if once or twice and that was early on in the process when I was still teaking the system. i cant remember the last time i lost my rope on retrieval.
(Because I said it now it will happen tomorrow )

what do ya think?

 

[NickfromWI]

Tophopper, the pic looks great. I understand the "keyhole" concept. Perhaps I should give that a shot, but for now, I am going to see if I can get the snap-shackle to work. I think the key is to use a slightly bigger snap shackle, and use some sort of a ball like what hillbilly showed (thanks for the pic. it makes sense now!).

FWIW- I took mine out for a sample run today. I went to a local park and climbed a short 30' Acer rubrum. I found that the snap shackle was a bit obnoxious while I was moving around near the tie in point. It rests right atop my friction hitch. Once I got about five feet down, it was no longer in my was. No major complaints with that.

I looked at the shackle late last night and saw that part of the reason the rope was getting caught in there was that it would settle down at the bottom of the shackle. The opening of the shackle, when closed, is a sort of a taper. This taper would pinch the rope and help it to get caught. So I took a piece of leather and sewed it to fill that void, helping to keep the climbing line in the widest part of the opening inside the shackle (see the pic).

So for the rest of the time, everything went fine. I liked how it felt. It is different than the RING/ring type friction saver, or the one I am currently using, a RING/pulley style.

For retrieval, it came down clean, but then the friction hitch (3/1 schwabish) got caught in this super wide crotch. It was snagged on a flake of bark. I could not pull it free. It was only about 8 feet up, so I just hit it with one of the dead branches that "fell" while I was up there.

I'm not yet ready to bring this to work (work is not the place to try new things...unless you're the boss!) I am going to keep working on it. I think I'll put a bigger snap shackle on it.

Oh, one fear I have is that one day, during retrieval, the pull-ring that opens the snap shackle will get snagged on a little twig, and open the shackle, letting my climbing line fall and leaving the friction saver in the tree I'll keep my fingers crossed.

........now where did I put that other snap shackle

love
nick

 

[tjk]

I was at my local sailing shop and found a captive shackle with a roller and a pin that can not come out. No droppies and no chance of the shackle going through pully. I'll have it at tci. I'm using a hitch instead of a cam that works well. I can adjust it remotely just like the cam. The advantage is it locks off much better on spars and smaller stems. I'll be at the sherrell both.

 

[NickfromWI]

Alright, TJK, I'm looking for you. I need to check out this shackle!!!

love
nick