Shaver Improvement Forum

[fletcher0780]

I've got some people working on the door insulation problem and will let you guys know what comes of it.

I'll hold you to that

 

[mistergreentree]

I'll hold you to that

Not making any promises......but am giving it thought as are others that I've asked.

I'm looking into ceramic fiber products...heat/fire resistant to 2300-2600*F
It can be purchased in sheet form or blanket form. Seems like the R value is around 3 per inch of thickness.

Any idea what temp the OWB fire would typically reach...I'm waiting on my infrared thermometer to arrive so I'm not sure what the range would be.

 

[ngzcaz]

Fletch... coal gives off roughly twice the BTU's of wood per pound.. however, a cord of wood ( oak for example) weighs roughly twice as much as a ton of coal so its pretty darn close. Pine and lighter woods will have less than coal because they don't weigh as much per cord. I haven't messed with coal since I still have access to wood down the back. I hope it lasts as long as I want to put the effort in getting it.

:greenchainsaw:

 

[fletcher0780]

Not making any promises......but am giving it thought as are others that I've asked.

I'm looking into ceramic fiber products...heat/fire resistant to 2300-2600*F
It can be purchased in sheet form or blanket form. Seems like the R value is around 3 per inch of thickness.

Any idea what temp the OWB fire would typically reach...I'm waiting on my infrared thermometer to arrive so I'm not sure what the range would be.

Just a guess, but I think no more than 600-700* degrees tops at the door.

 

[mistergreentree]

Just a guess, but I think no more than 600-700* degrees tops at the door.

I was working off of an assumption of no more than 1000* thinking that was plenty. I want to measure the space between the plates tomorrow to see what thickness I can get in there. I think the ceramic board just might do it...at least help. I only need to find some where I don't need to buy a whole pallet of the stuff. I've found it for around $12 per sheet, but you need to buy a pallet of 15. I want to check locally to see what I can find.

On a side note...Fletcher...thanks for the modifications you posted on this site...it has helped me quite a bit and I'm sure others too.

 

[david78]

The fiberglass turns black and probably will degrade over time, but it's cheap and sure reduces the temp on the outside of the door.

 

[fletcher0780]

I was working off of an assumption of no more than 1000* thinking that was plenty. I want to measure the space between the plates tomorrow to see what thickness I can get in there. I think the ceramic board just might do it...at least help. I only need to find some where I don't need to buy a whole pallet of the stuff. I've found it for around $12 per sheet, but you need to buy a pallet of 15. I want to check locally to see what I can find.

On a side note...Fletcher...thanks for the modifications you posted on this site...it has helped me quite a bit and I'm sure others too.

If you buy a sheet, I'll buy enough off you to do two oversized shaver doors (about 24"x24") and pay you for the S+H. No problem with the mod ideas, I've definitely "borrowed" some ideas from here, only seems fair to share some.

The fiberglass turns black and probably will degrade over time, but it's cheap and sure reduces the temp on the outside of the door.

So you have filled the gap between your door with insulation? How long have had it like that? Is the door cooler to the touch?

 

[urhstry]

Hey Aviator, can you post that diagram? The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to put one on. :help:

 

[projectsho89]

Rock wool insulation will withstand the temps in an OWB without a doubt, you might want to consider it. Just wear gloves, long sleeve shirt, and a mask because it's more irritating than is fiberglass.

When comparing the BTU content of various volumes of woods and their weights with coal, don't forget the amount of moisture that is in the wood. Coal has almost none.

Steve

 

[fletcher0780]

Just an observation: Insulating the door is going to result in the the part of the door exposed the inside of the firebox getting a lot hotter. Hopefully warping of the door will not be a problem.

Good call, maybe we could attach a ceramic panel to the inside of the inner most panel? Not sure about other OWB, but my shaver door gets well over 130*. I think insulating the door might help keep some more heat inside.

I hate to keep dominating these Shaver posts, but what have people done about the lack of insulation underneath the boiler. I sealed around the bottom of the boiler with expansion foam, but I imagine the concrete pad acts as a big heat sink and sucks up quite a bit. I think stuffing fiberglass insulation underneath is out because it will absorb a lot of water. We could probably fill the entire cavity with expansion foam, but that would be expensive. How about using that rockwool, or ceramic batting and stuff it in from the back with a stick? I assume it would hold up well to the moisture and could breath unlike the foam. Another option might be to slightly lift the boiler and slide a rigid foam panel underneath, then seal the edges with the expansion foam.

Another thought i had is some type of drop in baffle or catalytic converter down the stack to slightly restrict exhaust, retain heat, and possibly reduce emissions.

I believe one of the best ways to increase efficiency on any OWB is to improve the insulation. I might be over thinking it, or maybe not. Next Spring, I plan to remove the siding from my boiler and install those high-density foil backed rigid foam panels between the framing over the existing insulation. It can be held in with tape and removed easily if need for service.

 

[Jmont48]

Buyer Beware

Just a note to anyone considering a new Shaver, I ordered one on August 19, 2008 direct from the Factory, I was told it would be manufactured in early November and I would get it in early December. Well, I just spoke to the factory, and they are still making ones that were ordered in July. Mine probably won't be made until later this month, and then Ben pretty much admitted to me that their method of shipping is all screwed up. Long story short, I have no idea when I'll get my stove. It's very frustrating. From what others have written in this thread, this is a company that needs to improve a lot of things. I would not recommend them. As for me, I'm going to see if I can get my money back. Of course, it takes a week of hitting redial just to get through to them...

 

[Cirrus Aviator]

Auto shut off for Shaver

Hey Aviator, can you post that diagram? The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to put one on. :help:

Here is the diagram, I used (2) two-pole switches, and a N/O adjustable (90 to 150 degrees) thermostat that I got from the local Dey appliance store.

Hope this helps. Like I said the big advantage is that I can load the hopper full if I am going out of town and the blower will go off when the temp goes below what I have it set at. In this case 140 degs. This way the blower isn't trying to fan an empty hopper, in essence cooling my boiler.

 

[John D]

Just a note to anyone considering a new Shaver, I ordered one on August 19, 2008 direct from the Factory, I was told it would be manufactured in early November and I would get it in early December. Well, I just spoke to the factory, and they are still making ones that were ordered in July. Mine probably won't be made until later this month, and then Ben pretty much admitted to me that their method of shipping is all screwed up. Long story short, I have no idea when I'll get my stove. It's very frustrating. From what others have written in this thread, this is a company that needs to improve a lot of things. I would not recommend them. As for me, I'm going to see if I can get my money back. Of course, it takes a week of hitting redial just to get through to them...

FYI, I order June 19th,still no boiler,not even a shipping confirmation,nothing. I am shopping for a boiler now,apparently 23 weeks isnt enough time for Shaver to deliver.beings you ordered 2 months after me, i would not wait for them if I were you,I wish I had jumped ship 2 months ago myself,just get your money back,cut your losses and move on.

 

[mistergreentree]

Good call, maybe we could attach a ceramic panel to the inside of the inner most panel? Not sure about other OWB, but my shaver door gets well over 130*. I think insulating the door might help keep some more heat inside.

I hate to keep dominating these Shaver posts, but what have people done about the lack of insulation underneath the boiler. I sealed around the bottom of the boiler with expansion foam, but I imagine the concrete pad acts as a big heat sink and sucks up quite a bit. I think stuffing fiberglass insulation underneath is out because it will absorb a lot of water. We could probably fill the entire cavity with expansion foam, but that would be expensive. How about using that rockwool, or ceramic batting and stuff it in from the back with a stick? I assume it would hold up well to the moisture and could breath unlike the foam. Another option might be to slightly lift the boiler and slide a rigid foam panel underneath, then seal the edges with the expansion foam.

I have mine raised about 10" off the concrete. I wanted the fill door to be closer to waist height...seems easier to load for me. Anyway, I put some leftover pieces of rigid blue foam under there and then blocked off all around with wood blocks. This spring/summer I plan to cut some foam to actually fit snug under there and then put siding around to skirt the stove and help protect the foam board. I just didn't like the idea of the bottom being completely exposed like it was after I raised it.

I like the idea about rigid foam board on the sides too...I was thinking of foaming it this summer, but was worried about if I ever needed to fix a leak etc....

I haven't been able to find a local supplier for the ceramic stuff yet and nothing online where I can buy just a sheet.

 

[ngzcaz]

Insulating the OWB basically is a good idea, however, I'm not sure about going crazy making the boiler airtight underneath. Seems like you'd be inviting rust to form and cause big problems. Kinda like overdoing house insulation and ending up with mold, etc etc. And dont forget your boiler has to obtain an oxygen supply to the draft motor. If you make it too tight, can the motor draw enough fresh air to feed the fire ? Top, sides and door, thumbs up.. underneath ???


And... rock wool would hold up under the temps..my Dad used to work as a rigger at the Bethlehem steel years ago and occasionally worked in the " wool plant as he called it " he hated it..itched, had rashes etc it also settles over time so that might be a consideration.



:bang:

 

[mistergreentree]

Insulating the OWB basically is a good idea, however, I'm not sure about going crazy making the boiler airtight underneath. Seems like you'd be inviting rust to form and cause big problems. Kinda like overdoing house insulation and ending up with mold, etc etc. And dont forget your boiler has to obtain an oxygen supply to the draft motor. If you make it too tight, can the motor draw enough fresh air to feed the fire ? Top, sides and door, thumbs up.. underneath ???

:bang:

I agree about the rust...I was planning on leaving the back portion where the pipes go down pretty much open to allow air to the blower. The bottom of the water jacket is where I would build up the foam board but not tight, basically blocking off the cement pad and as much of the sides as possible to prevent wind from flowing under it.

 

[fletcher0780]

How about this place for ceramic insulation? Maybe we could stuff the blanket between the panels. Not sure what the r value is, kind of expensive $76 for 4lb 1"x24"x24" and $96 for 8lb 1"x24"x24"
http://www.minsealorder.com/SelProd.aspx?styleid=22

 

[david78]

Just an observation: Insulating the door is going to result in the the part of the door exposed the inside of the firebox getting a lot hotter. Hopefully warping of the door will not be a problem.

Seems to me creating a heat differential is the whole point of the heat shield: heat shield-hot, door-cool. The problem is the air space between the two isn't a very good insulator. Stuffing some kind of insulation in there just does what the air is supposed to do, only better. I suppose too big a difference in temp could warp the door; I don't know. Those doors seem pretty stout to me. I've had fiberglass in mine a week or so; keeps the door cool enough to put your hand against it and leave it there.
Another idea might be to add a second heat shield to the existing one. A sheet of steel, 4 bolts and some spacers; would be pretty easy.

 

[fletcher0780]

Seems to me creating a heat differential is the whole point of the heat shield: heat shield-hot, door-cool. The problem is the air space between the two isn't a very good insulator. Stuffing some kind of insulation in there just does what the air is supposed to do, only better. I suppose too big a difference in temp could warp the door; I don't know. Those doors seem pretty stout to me. I've had fiberglass in mine a week or so; keeps the door cool enough to put your hand against it and leave it there.
Another idea might be to add a second heat shield to the existing one. A sheet of steel, 4 bolts and some spacers; would be pretty easy.

Let us know how it holds up please.

Anyone consider lining their floor with firebrick? I'm very interested in this.

 

[fletcher0780]

Just found this stuff, not a bad price 2ftx12ftx2in for $42.60. That should be enough to do 6 doors. Does anyone know how this stuff is to work with? Can you cut it with shears?

http://www.mcgillswarehouse.com/ItemsList.aspx?groupID=10912&GN=CERAMICSPUNBLANKET8LB/FT3or128KG/M3