Some sawing, logging and skidding pics and videos ......

[056kid]

where did i say you couldn't??

I'm saying i get to cut great trees (veneer and grade and some for ties) non-stop basically, from sun up to sun down, and i can't even get that work completed fast enough to think that "adding" a pulp wood operation is going to make me more money per hour than what i am currently doing.

Possibly i am wrong, but i sure don't see how.

Sam

so do i. Ive put 15,000 on the ground before lunch before, & guess what, after the trees where dragged to the landing and sawed up, was freaking wood on the landing too!!! you do not have to stop cutting logs to have a wood pile man!! you can do both a\\nd get this, are you ready??? at the same mommy bleeping time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Add to the operation you allready have. EXPANDING would be the word...

 

[056kid]

Im trying to give you ideas & help here..

 

[tlandrum]

sam ,i think what your not seeing is that youve already cut the tree down, youre going to cut the limbs of at one point or another whether its in the bush or on the landing. where is the extra work your talking about at this point? thats why im saying the pulp is free money. your going to skid the twitch in whether its got limbs or not.still no extra time involved. so really the only extra time will be in loading the truck. with my knuckle boom it takes 30 min to load the truck. so right now i have spent an extra 30 min for what will be a 500 dollar load of pulp. if you have someone that has a self loader haul the pulp you will have 0 extra time in the load of pulp ,just money in your pocket. ther is money in pulp,whether or not you want to make it is another question. i myself feel that if theres money in the woods and im there ,its leaving with me. i think that we are on different ends of the logging pay scale. i believe that you are in the end that gets payed for just cutting and skidding and i get paid for the whole shooting match. by me be able to do all the parts of the job i can capitalize on money that you cant. i know that buying all the other equipment is a pain but once you are completely self sufficient you can spend more of that quality time hunting and riding and with the kids. seems like your at the great in between, you make a decent living at what your doing but you could make more for the same time spent if you manage things correctly. i know you have been doing this for a few years now, but id hope youll eventually want to be completely self sustained. it took me several years to own all the equipment i have now, and the last piece i bought will finally be paid off in jan. i have a 1994 clarke f67g, 1990 clarke 667 cable,1984 cat 955l track loader,1980 jd450c dozer,1988 freightliner tandem log truck,1992 kodiak single axle log truck(wifes truck) ,and a 1985 husky brute loader. its takes all this to not have to depend on others. its not cheap to maintain but when all is running smoothly, the checks get a whole hella lot bigger. like i said its just food for thought, and theres always more to be had if you plan it right. but do what you can with what you have for now.if your happy making what you make then im happy for you,but you could make more if you if you wanted to at the same amount of time your spending now.

 

[bitzer]

I was talking about efficiency not speed. Hitting your hole every time when falling. Using the leans and putting the trees where you want them every time. No hangers. You're right 2' stumps are a waste. I mean enough to get the power head in sideways. In less than a foot you can put all kinds of different faces in and get trees to do what you want them too. It would also save you on chains and you could be using full chisel. Theres lots of imbeded dirt and abrasives in where you're cuttng, hence the semi-chis. I think you've got a hell of a nice operation. Just a little tweaking thats all. A long bar cuts those small ones the same, but it doesn't pay the other way around.

BTW, I've got that Fiskars at home and a plain old single bit will give you a lot more lift with a lot less effort. You'll save your wedges too, believe it or not.

I know what you mean about bore cutting in Wis. Its a necessary tool, but not the end all like some here think.

 

[Slamm]

Been pretty busy on this new job. Haven't had much time for the pics and videos as of late.

Here is a big one from yesterday, that is a modded 660 with 28" bar for reference:

Black Locust trees suck, insanely hard and lotsa thorns:

Got a few trees out in the last few days, I think there are just over 180 trees in this landing and 100+ in another landing about 1/4 mile away, and at least 50+ still in the woods that Karen needs to get out. There are 61 trees already cut up and stacked between the two landings.

Try to get some more pics later this week. I think some videos might get uploaded later of the big landing.

Later,

Sam

 

[Slamm]

Here is a little video of the landing:


Later,

Sam

 

[056kid]

Nice wood!

Now with the help of a loader, you could have that spread consolidated on about 100 feet squared. Food for thought, food for thought..

Keep the pics coming...

 

[Slamm]

Nice wood!

Now with the help of a loader, you could have that spread consolidated on about 100 feet squared. Food for thought, food for thought..

Keep the pics coming...

LOL, its amazing I can make any money at all without you right here to help me. How many people am I suppose to hire to run all of this crap? I'm not saying its a bad idea, but you don't have a clue what my situation is here. Hell, why don't I just get a HydroAx and cut everything with a machine?? Food for thought, Food for thought??????????????

Put some pics and videos of the good and bad of the operation that you do or don't do, and let me take a crack at it, bet your rear, I find something dumb about it and certainly if I don't know your situation.

How can I have a loader with a consolidated landing if the man that owns the timber, wants to mark it according to his changing markets, and he has to mark the logs and then I buck them up and he pays me to use my wheel loader and he stacks it all ....................... How exactly will a log loader help me??????? If you want to buy me one, I'll set it out there somewhere in that big ole corn field and we'll see how much work we get out of it ......... nothing. It would be as worthless as tits on a boar.

I like how I put a few pics and dumb videos up and suddenly that is how the whole operation works. Heck, even, self-admittly, I put photos and videos of my screw ups on here yet for some reason you think thats all I do is whack wedges with little fiskars axes and low cut every hollow tree that I come to, and that I don't know how to walk around a tree with a saw dawged in. Have you looked at some of those stumps?????? if you cut like it sounds like you cut, you wouldn't be cutting for this timber buyer, you would be like every other logger around here........... out of work. I'm not out of work, I'm hiring more people, so possibly, just possibly I do have a clue about what I'm doing.

I'll await your most recent working pics and vids.

Later,

Sam

 

[056kid]

Hell a loader takes ummmm, 1 person, and the hydro ax is a great idea, you could get 10 + loads a day easy! But then you would have to #### around and lay each one out in a freakin field to let land owner grade hahahaha.


What got this whole thing started is you gabbing about your bad ace 441 and how high production your operation was, or so you think.

Im done though, you are convinced that you are something your not.

I have gotten out of the while argument deal on here but real quick I'l say.

I could run circles around your not even gypo status operation with one other person working with myself. Falling timber? I could wax your arse in that area as well... Dont think so? Sure you dont, but see if I care. I was trying to be nice #### boy. . .


BTW if you wanna see some pics o fwhere I work, look through Burvols "falling pics thread..."

 

[Slamm]

Hell a loader takes ummmm, 1 person, and the hydro ax is a great idea, you could get 10 + loads a day easy! But then you would have to #### around and lay each one out in a freakin field to let land owner grade hahahaha.


What got this whole thing started is you gabbing about your bad ace 441 and how high production your operation was, or so you think.

Im done though, you are convinced that you are something your not.

I know perfectly well, how many people it takes to run a loader, been on jobs with them.????? I have two skidders and one wheel loader. That is what I get paid to have on the job. I won't and don't get paid to have a loader on the job. So you giving me advice with everyone of my posts, when you don't know the situation is getting kinda stupid. Again, what the heck would I do with a loader???? I don't even have to run the wheel loader or load logs. All I do is cut and skid, period. I don't care about anything else, I don't get paid to do anything else. I have never said that I am the fastest, or even fast, if so find it, because I have worked with some very fast cutters and I don't put myself anywhere near their bracket, never have and will be the first to say so.

I have never said my 441 is the fastest, in fact I have on most occassions explained that if it was slower I wouldn't care because of its other benefits ......... many other forum members on here have shown that the 441 isn't much if any slower and in modded form it can be faster .... They all have figured this out this year, 2010. I had that figured out 2-3 years ago, and I like my 441's (modded of course, LOL). I mostly like and need the anti-vibe do to breaking my left hand and writst, more times than you have broke any of the bones in your body and breaking my right hand and wrist quit a few times ........... 15 years of riding bulls will do that to a body.

As to me convincing myself that I am something, I'm not. I not really sure what I am convinced of in the speed department, when I need to cut fast and the timber is right (low quality), I can cut fast and when I need to put trees where I want them and cut them low, I slow down and do that. I am convinced that I am a quality cutter that doesn't do a hack job and it shows in my finished product. I get bonused after my jobs for doing a great job and I get paid in piece work, so if I am or am not the fastest it doesn't really matter to the MAN, that is does matter to, the timber buyer. He likes that I cut quality timber low to get him extra footage and the land owners love that it doesn't look like their land was slashed and looks like crap afterwards.

You however, are convinced that you know what is best for me and my situation and you base this on some photos of a few trees I cut throughout the day and some videos. You don't know any of the business end of my operation, which is why you provide me with completely valueless advice like "get a loader", which is a completely worthless piece of equipment for me. You tell me to high cut veneer trees and other trees along trails or future campsite areas that the land owner doesn't want to look like it got "logged", guess what, it doesn't look like you came in and "logged it", it looks like I logged it and that is why I am promised that I will be going back there next spring and cutting 270 more acres of some very, very nice White Oaks for the landowners parents.

Did getting a loader get me that next 270 acres of work??? No
Did cutting high stumps get me that next job??? No
Did letting trees fall where they wanted to (not using wedges), because it was faster, get me the next job???? No

If anyone here doesn't care what the other says, its me, cause you certainly don't sign my checks or provide me with plenty of work, when everyone else is sitting or trying to get a job.

Later,

Sam

Oh provide a link of where your working pics are, as that thread is too long to bother with finding just your pics. I did see that you just started running a stock 660 in 2008, and had just discovered its "power", LOL. Boy what a veteran you are, LOL, and I don't mean that as I'm better than you (or that I'm a veteran), but it sure puts into perspective some of the advice you condisendingly give me when I owned my own truck, trailer, two skidders and several saws and had logged in Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri and Illinois before that, and could go back and get more work if I happened to enjoy the 10+hour one way trips to work.

 

[Metals406]

I know perfectly well, how many people it takes to run a loader, been on jobs with them.????? I have two skidders and one wheel loader. That is what I get paid to have on the job. I won't and don't get paid to have a loader on the job. So you giving me advice with everyone of my posts, when you don't know the situation is getting kinda stupid. Again, what the heck would I do with a loader???? I don't even have to run the wheel loader or load logs. All I do is cut and skid, period. I don't care about anything else, I don't get paid to do anything else. I have never said that I am the fastest, or even fast, if so find it, because I have worked with some very fast cutters and I don't put myself anywhere near their bracket, never have and will be the first to say so.

I have never said my 441 is the fastest, in fact I have on most occassions explained that if it was slower I wouldn't care because of its other benefits ......... many other forum members on here have shown that the 441 isn't much if any slower and in modded form it can be faster .... They all have figured this out this year, 2010. I had that figured out 2-3 years ago, and I like my 441's (modded of course, LOL). I mostly like and need the anti-vibe do to breaking my left hand and writst, more times than you have broke any of the bones in your body and breaking my right hand and wrist quit a few times ........... 15 years of riding bulls will do that to a body.

As to me convincing myself that I am something, I'm not. I not really sure what I am convinced of in the speed department, when I need to cut fast and the timber is right (low quality), I can cut fast and when I need to put trees where I want them and cut them low, I slow down and do that. I am convinced that I am a quality cutter that doesn't do a hack job and it shows in my finished product. I get bonused after my jobs for doing a great job and I get paid in piece work, so if I am or am not the fastest it doesn't really matter to the MAN, that is does matter to, the timber buyer. He likes that I cut quality timber low to get him extra footage and the land owners love that it doesn't look like their land was slashed and looks like crap afterwards.

You however, are convinced that you know what is best for me and my situation and you base this on some photos of a few trees I cut throughout the day and some videos. You don't know any of the business end of my operation, which is why you provide me with completely valueless advice like "get a loader", which is a completely worthless piece of equipment for me. You tell me to high cut veneer trees and other trees along trails or future campsite areas that the land owner doesn't want to look like it got "logged", guess what, it doesn't look like you came in and "logged it", it looks like I logged it and that is why I am promised that I will be going back there next spring and cutting 270 more acres of some very, very nice White Oaks for the landowners parents.

Did getting a loader get me that next 270 acres of work??? No
Did cutting high stumps get me that next job??? No
Did letting trees fall where they wanted to (not using wedges), because it was faster, get me the next job???? No

If anyone here doesn't care what the other says, its me, cause you certainly don't sign my checks or provide me with plenty of work, when everyone else is sitting or trying to get a job.

Later,

Sam

Oh provide a link of where your working pics are, as that thread is too long to bother with finding just your pics. I did see that you just started running a stock 660 in 2008, and had just discovered its "power", LOL. Boy what a veteran you are, LOL, and I don't mean that as I'm better than you (or that I'm a veteran), but it sure puts into perspective some of the advice you condisendingly give me when I owned my own truck, trailer, two skidders and several saws and had logged in Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri and Illinois before that, and could go back and get more work if I happened to enjoy the 10+hour one way trips to work.

Don't let the kid bother you Sam. . . Ted gets a few beers in him, and often inserts foot into mouth. He's a young, testosterone filled logger -- what else would you expect?

I do think he was just trying to be helpful, and provide you with some ideas, kinda brainstorming.

You do a fine job, and this thread is heading for "Epic" status. . . Just keep on posting pictures and videos, and let the rest run off you like water on a ducks ass.

 

[056kid]

I was sober this time

I guess ur right, I dont know your situation, i thought you where a logger. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Here are some "high stumps" LOLOL

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135133&d=1272572911

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135131&d=1272572751

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134855&d=1272397857

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134854&d=1272397849

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134281&d=1272062089

 

[Slamm]

Don't let the kid bother you Sam. . . Ted gets a few beers in him, and often inserts foot into mouth. He's a young, testosterone filled logger -- what else would you expect?

I do think he was just trying to be helpful, and provide you with some ideas, kinda brainstorming.

You do a fine job, and this thread is heading for "Epic" status. . . Just keep on posting pictures and videos, and let the rest run off you like water on a ducks ass.

The young, testosterone filled logger part, I kinda had a grasp on already, LOL. I think, I have a decent little operation here that I have put a lot of thought into and while it might not be everyone's cup of tea, it sure seems to work great for me and this area, and those that pay me, sure like it. So its kinda annoying for everytime I post a pic, I get advice on how I should swing cut and learn how to walk around a tree and cut faster, cut riskier, get a loader or get a log truck and whatever else I'm suppose to do????? What the heck, LOL. I just wanted to post some pics for others to see, I wasn't and haven't said I am the end all, be all.

Everyone likes different things, like the running two little skidders instead of one bigger one. It sure seems to pull out a lot of trees in one day, 100+ regardless of size and sometimes length of the skid, and the narrow 8 foot width means I can sneak around a woods and not crush everything inbetween, but I do understand that some people rather the one large skidder route, and there are advantages to that in certain terrain. We log hills mostly and the trees average 250-350 per job. This river job has many cherry bark oaks and pin oaks that are getting 600-700 board feet in the first cut, then there are a lot of smaller 20" soft maples that are coming out and they are pretty tall so we are still hitting our 250 BDFT average.

I can get a nice 518 CAT/ grapple with a brand new motor and under 5000 hrs and newer tires for $10-11K, it would be nice to have that bigger skidder for these very large trees, but the 540B's still pull them out and they are really fast and nimble on the 400bdft stuff. Either after this job or this winter, I'm actually going to stuff some 130-150 hp engines into the 540B's and I think that will really be the cats meow, because I don't need bigger skidders for the typical timber we cut, but more power (like with the saws) is always very handy indeed.

I tried the pulp deal again, at first on this river job. Pulled it out, but after we cut it all up and measured it and figured the pay versus the pain in the butt it is to deal with, it just simply isn't worth it to me. Could I make more cutting pulp ............ yes, but at what cost. I want to make several hundred dollars an hour and I simply can't do that screwing around with pulp wood, or at least going any distance or effort at all to get it. Not saying it isn't a great idea for making money or extra money on a job, but for the profit margin I'm looking at maintaining for the effort, pulp is about worthless and is just not worth it to me, and still I do want it to work or be profitable, but for us the numbers don't add up to being worth it ..... so right now little effort is extended toward cutting or pulling pulp wood. I actually have a potential "new guy" that only wants like $8-9hr and he can run a saw pretty good, that I was thinking about have him pick through the rubble and pull out the pulp and make his own landing of it ............ just a thought, and it will probably go away, soon, LOL.

Well now I have to go count some trees and make a plan for skidding out some very nice 36-40" soft maple, ash and hickory's that we are cutting tomorrow and work on increasing (or possibly fixing some problem) on the hydro pressure on the wheel loader to lift the large 20'+ long lengths of cherry barks and pin oaks that have to be loaded this week onto the trucks. Its never been real strong about lifting the very large logs, so I've got some time to get it fixed or "modded", LOL.

Later,

Sam

 

[porch monkey]

My daddy had a coupla sayings:

"If it aint broke...dont fix it"

"Dance with the one that brung you"

Anytime I've ever strayed too far away from those...I've ended up losing my ass. Looks to me like Sam is smart enough to know that

 

[jeepyfz450]

Great pics and vids slamm. looks like a top notch operation to me. I personally like the way you keep things simple. Not lots and lots of equiptment and employees. you know what makes you money and obviosly know how to make it work. Your stumps and bucking work looks great. I like the big landing with logs laid out. the logs are clean and straight makes bucking so much easier.

 

[palogger]

hey slam looking good there, dont blame you for not wanting a loader. did u happen to notice the fiber pull in kids third link?

 

[atvguns]

Great thread keep the pics and vids coming

 

[Slamm]

Thanks for the good words.

hey slam looking good there, dont blame you for not wanting a loader. did u happen to notice the fiber pull in kids third link?

LOL, yes, I did and quite frankly, that is the stuff that I am talking about. When you cut like that, it happens, huge time consuming notches, that close up too quickly and then either split the front of the butt off or pull the fiber in the middle. I worked with another cutter that cut notches similar to that and he was always pulling the sides out of the trees whenever he tried to "swing" them. When I started in Wisconsin the two sawmills we sold to mostly would not have liked that at all, and those that cut like that didn't work for them.

I know lotsa cutters, cut just like that with the 1/3 of the stump notches and I really never understood it. They landblast the bore cut as being slower, yet they are double cutting a lot of the same wood with that huge notch, which is a real time consumer, and it quite frequently leads to fiber pull a lot of the time, because you can't possibly get a good 90 degree notch without cutting half the butt off. Cut like that on the hickory's around here and you will slab the front off of the butt, but that doesn't bother some people because that is how they were trained or shown and they don't or won't stray from it.

I see that notch style a lot in the PNW trees/stumps and I guess the softer wood lets you get away with it more or nobody cares about getting every last bdft out of the stump/butt, because they have a lot of high stumps and a lot of fiber pull on them. I know we have been cutting a lot of soft maple and man the things you can get away with that soft wood is amazing, LOL. You can do everything just about wrong and it still ends up working or looking okay, LOL. Soft Maple is my new favorite tree to log, LOL.

I'll try to get some more pics of the trees we have been cutting. I worked a few hours today and got 23 huge hickory, ash and soft maple down. We are going to be running two skidders and two cutters tomorrow, so the wood will be coming out pretty nicely. I wanted to get a head start on the grapple skidder, because he was going to start real early in the morning using the lights on the machine as the trees in this area are all way over the contracted 20" mark and it now looks like a parking lot with some stumps in it, so he can work in the dark pretty safely.

Didn't get the valve work completed today so, I'll be messing around with that in the next couple of days. I got a 5000 psi gauge from a neighbor and made an adaptor I can use to stick the gauge into the pressure line and then go try to pick up some huge tree and spike the pressure and then adjust it up a couple of hundred psi, so we can load these larger logs onto the trucks. These bigger, longer logs are going to be mine mats, which is great, as that is less bucking up due to the longer lengths ........... these railroad tie lengths suck, LOL, too many little pieces to buck, but we do what we gotta do.

Not sure how much longer we are going to be on this job. We were told we could go back and cut more trees in the lots that a previous logging contractor left, due to it rained or flooded or something and they left a lot of 30"+ pin oaks yet seemed to have cut the little stuff?????? They aren't rotten or hollow cause we checked a few, but there are already skid roads and all the little trees are cleared out so there is nothing but easy pickins on the big stuff.

Here is topping one tree next to a nice stump of a tree that was already pulled to the landing.

In this scenerio with the soft maple with smaller tops and arrow straight, we are trying to keep the skidder right on the cutters butt pulling trees because they break so easy we can't just drop them over onto one another like the oaks can handle. These soft maples just bust up upon landing on anything but open dirt. Cut quite a few hackberrys around this area too, ..... don't know what to think of them. Some are good and some are hollow, some are solid on the bottom and then the top 2/3's are hollow. The sycamore is also about 50/50 hollow, standard practice on them is shoot a bore shot into the side and check it first, cause too many of the nice looking ones are worthless. The hickory and maple have been solid and the ash really, really nice. In this part of the timber there aren't any oaks, that is/was the other side of the property and we are done with that except for skidding out about 50+ trees along a 1/2 mile stretch.

Later,

Sam

 

[056kid]

Cutting a 1/3 deep narrow faced notch takes less time than cutting down the grain in my opinion. furthermore, I have found the game of logging type open faced notch can peel a stump if it has much side lean. That poplar is quite big and took me maybe 2 minutes to cut. all from one side. I have worked mostly on mountain sides, ones where if you drop a saw, it goes down down a long time, where timber is clear, tall and have crowns that lean alot! 1/3 notches can do there what the shallow ones will only dream of doing. .



Also is it me, or did you pull the sap wood on that log in your picture with you in it?

 

[Slamm]

I forgot this one, tree urination, and no I did not drop that tree, against the tree I am cutting. That is some dead maple that floated down the river and got stuck against the tree that is peeing on my saw. For those concerned about my pulp wood operation, I will be dragging both trees out for pulp wood.


Later,

Sam