Some sawing, logging and skidding pics and videos ......

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well you know im not a big 441 fan but sam thats one sick puppy,id have to get a different set of plastics to run on it for woods duty. but is is nice none the less. on a side note i know exactly how it is to get a saw smashed by an employee. my last mashed saw came on the new guys 6th tree. needless to say there was never a 7th.

Yeah, I wasn't very happy about it, but honestly this kid could probably smash one a week and I would still keep him. He has never cut trees before, but has been around it a little, sorta knows how to run a saw and doesn't know how to sharpen his own chain ........... sounds great doesn't he, LOL.

His first 6 hours on the job he drops 23 20-28" Pin Oaks and not one pinch, and never need a chain sharpened. He hasn't cut less than 25-30 (24-40") pin oak trees in a 6-9 hour period and he never hangs up and he is in one crappy section full of riffraff that the river floated up. Today he learned how to set up trees to fall over the opposite way or to get pushed over by the skidder and he walked about 1/2 setting up trees for me to push over. He runs 3 miles a day with his Marine dad and he is just a great 22 year old kid, we love him. He is the kinda hard worker that you go through 20-30 worthless idiots to find. He just screwed up today is all, it happens to everyone, but the good ones learn from it and don't/won't do it again.

As to the saw, I do have some other plastic for it, actually I have a busted rear handle stock 441 that I could swap the plastic and side cover with. This thing is pretty nice. I wish I had weldled up a trunk on the back of my skidders to hold the saws, better, thats where they get beat to heck. I have to run the loader tomorrow and the grapple skidder so I won't get to use it much. I'll try to clamp something with the loader and make a few whacks with it. Terry said it tied to maybe slightly edged out his best 460 that is all hopped up. So we'll see. I am pretty busy but will try to get to Jeremy's to cookie cut sometime with it. It will take about 20 tanks to get broke in good, but it supposively runs pretty hard right now. I started it in the dark tonight and revved it a bit, it really seems like it is angry at something. Starts easy too, LOL.

Sam
 
That paint job is crazy! Very nice.:bowdown::bowdown:

LOL, well we got some good use out of your 441 until today. I'm not the best at tuning saws, but I finally had it running about as good as a stock 441 is going to run. 5 hours of bucking up bigger trees gives one some time to tune in the cut, LOL.

Thanks, again for the saw.

Sam
 
Yeah, I wasn't very happy about it, but honestly this kid could probably smash one a week and I would still keep him. He has never cut trees before, but has been around it a little, sorta knows how to run a saw and doesn't know how to sharpen his own chain ........... sounds great doesn't he, LOL.

Sounds like a winner....:laugh:

I do know where you can get a pretty good running 046 to replace it with :)
 
Well got the Cat 910 wheel loader's hydro pressure turned up some (I modded it, LOL). It can lift a pretty good sized log now.
IMG_20101014_173735.jpg

IMG_20101014_174313.jpg

Here is my only pic of the new 441R in wood. We took some video's of it cutting down some pin oaks, but I had forgot my phone and we did it all on Karen's phone and she is trail riding horses now so can't upload them, but needless to say, my cutter and I are extremely impressed.
IMG_20101014_093430.jpg

We aren't use to the full wrap handle yet, as can/will be obvious in the videos as we kept using the top of the bar when we could have used the bottom, but habits are hard to quit. We are running the saw rich for now and will lean it up after a few tanks, but it makes a lot of power. Never even ran it today as we had two skidders running all day trying to get caught up to the cutters. One of the "use to be" workers decided to not check the air filter cover and it fell off and split the upper radiator hose. That was a few hour setback that we didn't need, but all is going good, and we see the light at the end of the tunnel. The farmer cut the corn and beans off, so we can proceed with the cutting of the last big pin oaks that want to fall into the fields, then drag the tops into the woods with the grapple and leave them. Monday morning we get to see if the landowner wants us to cut some of the largest trees on the property. They are along a fence line and are simply huge. There is a double that probably has 1,500-1,800 bdft in each side, depending on what measures have to be considered as a result of the fence we will see if it is worth messing with them, otherwise we will be done pretty soon. We're going to work tomorrow morning (Saturday) after catching our horses, tie them up at the landing, log until noon and then go trail riding up in Shawnee National Forest in the afternoon. I'll try to get some pics of that.

Later,

Sam
 
I'm pretty sure we cut and skid the last of the trees today. Truck are getting loaded. The timber buyer is busy, so I get the "thrill" of loading the trucks, LOL.

We've been pretty busy lately and not much time for the photos. The 441 is running very nicely and we droppped some trees with it a few days ago, its fast enough that it can hold its own against a really nice modded 660, its running rich right now and I leaned it up 1/4 turn and it ran faster yet, we're getting some tanks through it to break it in, but I told Terry if it didn't run any faster than it has been, I would be very happy. We're waiting on some rings from Bailey's to show up, and then I will have another one in a few days.

Here is a nice load of mat logs, the driver figured he was "heavy" ..... I figured he was right:
IMG_20101019_165037.jpg


Later,

Sam
 
Slamm,

We have softwoods here as hard or harder than your hardwoods. ZERO humidity in the summer. Dry ass heat. East of the Cascades it gets worse. The really soft wood is the west slopes of the cascade range to the coast. Out west we cut a certain way because it works. The stumps look good on a lot of timber you see because there is some bad ass timber fallers out here. Sure there are some hacks, but cutting tall west coast timber on our ground, brush, snags, ect. and throw in the wood is very tall, you are gonna have to find some fine talent to consistantly do it right. West coast techniques just work. Ask Joe, Mr. Hammer logging. He is using west coast style rigging in the highlead, and in log cutting. Square chain the whole bit. People were telling him he couldn't do some of the stuff. I laughed. He said they eventually admitted they didn't know ####. You come off as an ass hole (ego driven but seems to play it off as awe-shucks) to me, but I might be overly sensitive, so don't hate LOL. I don't hate or dislike you at all. I don't however understand why you hate Ted so much. He is a heck of good faller and good guy. He was excited about your thread and just wanted to join in. Hope you two can make up ;)
I am certain you do a fine job in leaving the stand in tact, which is very cool. Props to you for doing what you do. Your still out to lunch on skip chain being the **** :biggrinbounce2:
 
Slamm,

We have softwoods here as hard or harder than your hardwoods. out to lunch

Must be different than BC because I've cut there and know a guy that supplies modded work saws to California/Oregon/Washington so things must be different for you.
BTW blocking up some 24 to 30 inch dry Hard maple, Beech and red oak today, 2 of us 16 inched about 6 to 7 cord in 3 hours with 6 very well modded saws and quite frankly the dry larch/doug fir/ and poderosa pine I cut with stock saws in BC were EZPZ.My modded stuff would have killed it.

That maple today on 20 inch bars over the top for 24 to 30 inch wood was taxing for motors and chains.
30 inch Doug fir you don't even have to "feather" it ,just push with the saws I own.

They make bowling alleys, butcher blocks and good furniture out of hardwood for a reason.

As I mentioned earlier ,I was in BC this year staying in a condominium that was for sale, bragging about the "alder hardwood flooring"
at dark 0-thirty I congregated interested family members and performed a test in the closet.With a kitchen knife.
Not good...

Our pine/poplar would be the same.

JMHO
 
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You come off as an ass hole (ego driven but seems to play it off as awe-shucks) to me, but I might be overly sensitive, so don't hate LOL. I don't hate or dislike you at all. I don't however understand why you hate Ted so much. He is a heck of good faller and good guy. He was excited about your thread and just wanted to join in. Hope you two can make up ;)

When I spoke to Sam on the phone, he was far from an azz hole. He seems confindent with his work and his "boss" agrees. The pics tell the truth also. If he is getting the job done, who is someone else to tell him how to do his job? I'm sure Sam would love to have all kinds of equipment to help him make more $$$$, who would not? He has an operation most here would kill to have.

Moral of story: Let the guy do his work and enjoy the pics. If you want to talk ####, find a Stihl vs. husky thread.:cheers:
 
Burvol, thanks for the response, don't know what to tell you on the hardwood thing, unless you have "softwood" that is so hard like our hard maple and hickory that will rip the tips of the chisel chain right off in the first couple of inches on the notch. I don't really care if anyone else likes how I do it, I know I have tried many different combinations and but plenty of testing in and still retest stuff like the chisel and semi chisel on different jobs. On this river side stuff with silt all on the bark you can't cut two trees in a row without the chisel chain cutting crooked..... Do you still want me to use chisel or full comp and spend that much longer sharpening it? I've got a good new cutter that gets sent to the woods at 6:30am and he comes back at 12pm and he is cutting dirty, silty pin oaks, red oak and hickory in the hills. He doesn't even know how to sharpen a chain and he can go for that whole time with one semi-chisel chain and a spare. The kid can go hours and hours and never get pinched or stuck, so how is giving him chisel chain or full comp going to do him any better? Its not.

I don't know who "Ted" is ..... ?056? I guess, I don't like being told I should cut a riskier way that blows the trees up and is a higher risk for me when what is the benefit??? I want all stumps cut cleanly and level, not stump jump one tree and then split the next and pull 1.5' of fiber on the next and then tear the side of the tree out on the next tree. I have work because I cut good clean stumps/butts. I don't have work because I am fast. I also don't make any money cutting pulp ..... closer figures show that it cost me money and it is a complete waste of my time and my workers time. I wish it was different but it isn't. No amount of internet experts can change that little fact for me. Last week the local pulp buyer was shut down for 1 week, and this week they are open the pulp truck picked up two loads of pulp in one day and sat in line for God knows how many hours just to get that in, that will not make me money. I can skid trees for $100's per hour and various individuals think and are trying to convince me that pulp is where the free money is at ..... well, it isn't..... not for me. If my income was dependent on pulp in any way, I would/will quit. I'm not sure how much money it would take to convince me that I need to be sitting in some log truck for 4 hours straight waiting and hoping that they will open up and take this trash off of my truck, but I can assure you that whatever it is they are paying isn't enough for me .......... so call me high society if it makes them feel better, but pulp sucks for me in this area doing what I am doing. It might be great for someone else.

I'm not sure why being convinced of some of these little facts and then expressing these little facts to those that don't know my situation or think they know the whole story based on some photos of problem trees or things that go or went wrong, makes be the horses rearend, but if that is how you view it thats fine by me, you don't sign my checks, your just some internet person that is looking at my photos and thinks he knows the whole story, so while I might choose to debate you, I certainly don't really care if you or Ted like how I do things, case in point, your wood is softer than my wood, and that is why I like to use semi-chisel, skip tooth chains. I have run them side by side on the same model saws and guess what??>>>> I could cut more wood with the semi chisel chains. If you can't comprehend that then I don't know what to tell you.

At this point in the thread, I don't really care, I put some pics up of the goings on and if some of you want to think that I am in for certain bankrupcy as a result of "bore cutting" or using semi-chisel/skip chain or not wanting to cut pulpwood or running modded 441's then I guess, I am headed for bankrupcy, but from my point of view. I have zero bills, all of my equipment is paid for and I can and do buy more when I want and need it, I can go from one worker to six with a few phone calls and I am happy and those that are both experienced and in-experienced think I run a simple and efficient operation, that is simply smooth and without much drama. I guess, I find it hard to want to change that or hard to find much inspiration to want to change much if anything about it. You feel that makes me arrogant or a horses rearend, well, that will have to be my price to pay, that someone on the internet that lives on the west coast doesn't like me or worse yet thinks I'm a hack logger or whatever, I could really care less. I'm sorry to you, that Ted did not convince me that whatever or however I get the trees on the ground is somehow disadvantaged enough to warranty any addition risk or in need of any additional speed. If that has hurt your feelings, then again, I am truly sorry, but I have logged with and behind those that cut like Ted and well, and while certain techniques can get more trees on the ground quicker, I always have to ask .... At what cost? and the cost is usually crappy looking stumps (which is a representation of your logging work and quality that lasts for years after you are gone), pulled fiber, split or compromised butts, tree placement that is less than perfect (which effects the skidder effort and surrounding timber) and increased risk to the faller and skidder operator ............... so what were/are the benefits of whatever methods of falling trees that others were talking about?? They are supposively faster, well I don't have a problem with speed, I don't remember ever asking for help on how to cut trees faster or that I was in finacial trouble due to my "slow methods" or equipment, yet (because we are on the internet) I will certainly get lots of great advice because, of course everyone knows how to do it, but me, the person that is actually doing it.

Thanks again,

Sam
 
Slamm, YOU are the one putting up pics of un-level stumps, If they where my stumps I wouldn't even put them on the web.

I am younger than you slam, but assuming you have been cutting in west Kentucky all your career, I have been in timber that is far more technical and dangerous than anything you have ever seen. Every forester that i have talked to had nothing but good things to say about my work. Never had the Govt complain and they can really be anal.


I had a big presentation written up for you but I sat and thunk for a second and realized that there is no point.

Your attitude puts me in the mind of a stubborn drunk...


some quotes of Slamm's from the 441 VS 460 thread of recently. Very peculiar..

"Typically I view chainsaw operation of any kind, as a form of loud, irritating, hard work, that I wish I could get over with as soon as possible."


"Then there are those, that get so hung on tradition or "stuck in a rut", that they can't seem to "modify" their minds or bodies to the obvious benifits of modern technology when and where it is presented"


"LoL, I dislike logging enough the way it is"

The difference in you & me. A guy that hates to fish but has to will never be as good as the guy that loves to fish and has to. The man that hates to fish's hatrid will carry him far. But the man that loves to fishe's love will make him a prodigy. . .

Edited just for you Slamm.
 
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Thank you, 056, as usual, I really appreciate your input. I promise that today I won't bore cut anything and I have enlarged several of your most recent stump photos as visual reminders of what I should be striving for. Now that I know you are the $h)t I will make sure I PM you with all my questions regarding cutting and logging strategy.

As to my love or lack of, for logging, I make money several different ways and in the last 5 years, logging isn't even in the top 3 for amount of money that I have made for the effort. I'm out to make money for my family and spend time with them. I can't help it that I can (at times) make a lot, more money doing things other than logging, its not my be all, end all. I like to make money that is my top priority, I can and do make good money logging, therefore I try to be as efficient at it all the way around. I judge how good I am at something by how much money I can make at it, therefore I run it like a business, not a love affair. If it works I do it or use it, if it doesn't I don't keep on using it or doing it, just because my dad and dad's dad did it that way. It either makes money or it doesn't and that is how I decide on things on their own merits. I don't love anything in particular except my wife, everything else I do had better make money or I quit it and find something else to do that is more productive. If logging slows down or the price falls I can and do, do something else. My machines are paid for and if they sit, its no big deal to me, because whatever else I'm doing is more productive, right now, logging is working out just fine, so that is what I'm doing. Sometimes investing is hot, sometimes bull riding is hot, sometimes the machine shop is hot, sometimes the insurance work I do is hot, I only "play" whatever is going to make the money, I can't afford to be in love with anyone thing to a point of cloudy vision. So you can have the I'm a more experienced logger trophy for the year or the rest of your life, I could care less, because that isn't how I judge my success, by perfecting some cut that is known for splitting trees and uping the risk factor of my day for a few seconds of speed. I like to run the 441 as long as its within a second of the 460 or 7900 that is all I care about and it always has been and its smoother and more fuel efficient, I've never really cared and have stated that I don't care if it is the fastest. With the amount of damage to my hands and wrists due to 15 years of bull riding, I'm not really interested in "not" feeling my hands for the next week or month just because some traditionalist says the 460 is better or faster or the 441 is for wu$$ies.

Do to some of the extracuricular activities that I have been apart of for around half of my life, logging and its various "dangers" aren't really even very high up on my list of exciting things to do, so while for many or most they find some sort of life fulfilling moments with the logging and chainsaw operation .............. I don't. Therefore I can typically view various chainsaw and logging operations with a sort of clear head since I'm not the one needing it for some "adrenaline" fix ..... its just work for me. Again if that makes me an A$$ or you the super logger of the year, I don't care. You don't sign my checks and you didn't pay for the things that I have.

I simply put some photos up of the goings on of my operation, they are typically take not at the peak of my productivity for obvious reasons, therefore for you to look down you nose at me just about everytime I put some photos up and think you are or could come here and do the quality that I do, faster, based on some photos and videos that represent about 5% of what goes on in a day, makes you not only arrogant, an A$$ and a typical young know it all cutter, and you know what, I don't fault you for it, I'm sure I do the same, but as I have indicated before its just annoying for those that live here and are actually doing it to have someone as good as yourself constantly belittle our operation, when it is quite obvious we are successful and everyone from top to bottom here is happy and good at what they do. I have never said I or my operation was the best, but we are good and our final product shows it, if it takes me a day or two to finish up a good stand of timber, I'm fine with that, because I am the one that is getting asked to come back and cut it again 10-20 years from now. When the landowners friends come and look at my work they say,"I thought it would have looked worse than this." , because typically it does with hacked, tall stumps and tops everywhere........ but I don't always cut like that or need to. On this river side job it looks like a logger logged it ... and I know it, why because nobody cares about it, in a few months the river will flood it and whether I directionally fell the trees or not doesn't really matter, so we speed cut them, walk around the tree and such. You see me bore cut some quality trees or do it because I want to stop at a certain point and make a video or my kids or wife is standing nearby and suddenly you take it upon yourself to direct me to faster cutting techniques and living my life more dangerously, LOL, you don't know the first thing about danger or living life more dangerously, and I say that knowing you are a cutter, LOL.

So I don't dislike you 056/Ted, I just find you annoying, and have said as much before.

Later,

Sam
 
Slamm, YOU are the one putting up pics of un-level stumps, If they where my stumps I wouldn't even put them on the web.

Any stumps that you think are unlevel are do to camera angle and not because they actually are, I know which ones you are talking about and it is how I had the camera sitting on a log nearby. I put god knows how many photos of my stumps up and you put up 3-5 photos and the third one has pulled fiber in it, LOL. Please.

I am younger than you slam, but assuming you have been cutting in west Kentucky all your career, I have been in timber that is far more technical and dangerous than anything you have ever seen.

Again, assumptions, you know what they say about those things. I put some photos up and explain what I am doing .......... you are just simply bragging and I'm not really sure why??? No one is attempting to discredit you, I am simply not interested in your opinions anymore, as I have found them to not be any more profitable at the end of the day or year, than what I currently have been doing. I have explained this to you and still you feel you are better than me. Do you understand any of this? I know its not getting through, and I attribute that to your youth, I guess.

Sam
 
All I am trying to convey now is Im proud of my work.

Everyone does things different, I thought maybe you could use some input,(I like it when others give it to me) is all.

your annoyed,m Im annoyed, nothing has been accomplished. . .

You think every "other" way to tip a tree "will bust a log" and that irritates me because it completely false. . . . . .

Yea I put up a few pics, one with some fiber pull. I dont have time to snap endless photos at work, I dont think my camera would last more than it already has out there, so dont assume all I do is pull fiber & slab wood please. .
 
i might not agree with you on the 441 vs. 460 debate but i get that you have a great operation for yourself and you're doing it the way that is best and most profitable for you. please keep posting the pix and vids as some of us are learning a bit from them. thanks Sam.
 
You think every "other" way to tip a tree "will bust a log" and that irritates me because it completely false. . . . . .

Yup, loggers around here are the same way, "if you don't bore cut every tree they'll barber chair", yeah blah blah blah. I haven't even bore cut enough times in 4 years to be able to count on both hands.
 
Harvesting trees is a money maker for you. Good deal. I comend you for loving your family and supporting them.

Yes, I am hopeless. I love to work in the timber industry. I guess I was rooted in it, but also love it. I lost some good years drunk, but I don't regret all of it. You can't. That's what AA meetings are for. Beat yourself down for life. I figure I am already dead over and over, so all the living I have now is bonus material. My home life is rough watching someone slowly die (I don't pitty myself), but I find what I need in the woods. My release. Physical conditioning. Mental concentration. I take pride in being in shape, eating good and being sober, and kicking ass on the stump. We are just proud of what we do out west I guess. Two feet in, all the way.
 
Harvesting trees is a money maker for you. Good deal. I comend you for loving your family and supporting them.

Yes, I am hopeless. I love to work in the timber industry. I guess I was rooted in it, but also love it. I lost some good years drunk, but I don't regret all of it. You can't. That's what AA meetings are for. Beat yourself down for life. I figure I am already dead over and over, so all the living I have now is bonus material. My home life is rough watching someone slowly die (I don't pitty myself), but I find what I need in the woods. My release. Physical conditioning. Mental concentration. I take pride in being in shape, eating good and being sober, and kicking ass on the stump. We are just proud of what we do out west I guess. Two feet in, all the way.
and people out east arnt proud?
 
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