Splitter cylinder help me choose

[GM_Grimmy]

The above post appears to be very bad advice and you should most likely ignore that persons posts on this thread and possibly all threads. Yup

And whys that? Please do explain.

 

[bigbadbob]

The above post appears to be very bad advice and you should most likely ignore that persons posts on this thread and possibly all threads. Yup

Everybody is entitled to their opinion.
I value each one.
But that is a bit much.
BBB

 

[muddstopper]

I aint going to post a opinion, just some facts. The red cylinder is my best guess a 5in bore cylinder. This is currently the size on my current splitter. I use a adjustable 6way wedge that is 24in tall. I also have a 28gpm 2stage pump. I didnot bore out the ports on the cylinder. I regularly split white oak with dia over 30 inches. You are talking about splitting douglas fir, easy stuff compared to white oak. If you really think you need the tonnage, then go with the big cylinder. I dont think you really need such a large cyl unless you plan on putting some sort of multiple box wedge design. The big cyl with your current pump size will be slow, even doing multple 4 or 6 way splits as compared to the smaller cylinder with the same size and multiple splits. The big cyl is only worth bragging rights and will seldom, if ever, see its full potential tonnage being needed.

 

[bigbadbob]

I aint going to post a opinion, just some facts. The red cylinder is my best guess a 5in bore cylinder. This is currently the size on my current splitter. I use a adjustable 6way wedge that is 24in tall. I also have a 28gpm 2stage pump. I didnot bore out the ports on the cylinder. I regularly split white oak with dia over 30 inches. You are talking about splitting douglas fir, easy stuff compared to white oak. If you really think you need the tonnage, then go with the big cylinder. I dont think you really need such a large cyl unless you plan on putting some sort of multiple box wedge design. The big cyl with your current pump size will be slow, even doing multple 4 or 6 way splits as compared to the smaller cylinder with the same size and multiple splits. The big cyl is only worth bragging rights and will seldom, if ever, see its full potential tonnage being needed.

Thanks
What size are the ports on yours, any heat problems???
It is 5 in ID cylinder.
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[Johnny Yooper]

not sure if there are other items in addition to size that might steer your decision: overall weight, mounting, etc. Since I was in the mood for some math (finished helping with some 8th grade homework earlier) I took a guess at 1/4 inch thick sidewalls for the big cylinder and 3/16" thick sidewalls for the red one and based on the dimensions you provided, and using a pressure of 2500psi and ignoring losses, I get 32.8 tons for the big one and 21.8 tons for the red one, so 50.4% more tonnage with the larger one. Depending on what you intend to be splitting, you might not need the extra oomph, but wanted to reinforce the old adage that size does matter...........just sayin'.

slight correction needed to the piston area value that I used for the above. Redoing that and staying with 2500psi system pressure, I show the big cylinder at about 38.9 ton and red cylinder is about 25.7 ton (again, neglecting losses). As already mentioned by several others, additional factors might come into play for which way you go; however, you'd still get about 50% more tonnage with the larger cylinder.

 

[bigbadbob]

slight correction needed to the piston area value that I used for the above. Redoing that and staying with 2500psi system pressure, I show the big cylinder at about 38.9 ton and red cylinder is about 25.7 ton (again, neglecting losses). As already mentioned by several others, additional factors might come into play for which way you go; however, you'd still get about 50% more tonnage with the larger cylinder.

Do you think my beam with take the 38.9 T
I dont know the thickness of the big ones walls, imagine they are 1/4, or 3/8
I can only lift one end at a time, I struggle to get it into my truck, 200lbs,,my guess
Small one is 72.
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[firebrick43]

That is a heavy beam but you may want to beef up the top flange by welding on another plate using the big cylinder with a 4 or 6 way wedge.

I will say another thing about those two cylinder. The larger cylinder by outwards appearance is much better built. From experience of rebuilding cylinders I would say the red one just has a couple of o rings and some buna n u seals.

The bigger cylinder will probably have bronze or nylatron wear rings on the piston and on the head, better polyurathane seals, and maybe even cushions at the far ends of throw. May have a higher alloy steel rod as well

 

[bigbadbob]

That is a heavy beam but you may want to beef up the top flange by welding on another plate using the big cylinder with a 4 or 6 way wedge.

I will say another thing about those two cylinder. The larger cylinder by outwards appearance is much better built. From experience of rebuilding cylinders I would say the red one just has a couple of o rings and some buna n u seals.

The bigger cylinder will probably have bronze or nylatron wear rings on the piston and on the head, better polyurathane seals, and maybe even cushions at the far ends of throw. May have a higher alloy steel rod as well

Any idea of its age?? Prior use??
I have 16 ft of 10inx1in steel in two 8 ft chunks, make a good top plate..
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[Cerran]

The above post appears to be very bad advice and you should most likely ignore that persons posts on this thread and possibly all threads. Yup

Not really, it all depends on the design of the splitter and the type of wood being split. In many cases a faster cycle time is better.

If there is that big of a question between the two cylinders have you checked the condition of the cylinders themselves and have you run either through a few cycles?

 

[firebrick43]

That plate should do!! Maybe some what of overkill.

Don't know what the clyinder is off of. Looks very similar to heavy earth moving equipment cylinders however most of the have orb or face sealed ports not the npt ports that on seams to have.(hard to verify from a picture). Probably some sort of industrial machinery.

 

[bigbadbob]

Not really, it all depends on the design of the splitter and the type of wood being split. In many cases a faster cycle time is better. If there is that big of a questions between the two cylinders have you checked the condition of the cylinders themselves and have you run either through a few cycles?

Red one is new,,, other not new at all,,, LOL
Fellow I got it from said it was good.
Guess I could try it and if it doesnt work, swap them.
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[Cerran]

Red one is new,,, other not new at all,,, LOL
Fellow I got it from said it was good.
Guess I could try it and if it doesnt work, swap them.
BBB

Trust but verify. I'd make sure the one you want to use works properly first.

 

[bigbadbob]

That plate should do!! Maybe some what of overkill.

Don't know what the clyinder is off of. Looks very similar to heavy earth moving equipment cylinders however most of the have orb or face sealed ports not the npt ports that on seams to have.(hard to verify from a picture). Probably some sort of industrial machinery.

Just pulled the fittings, pipe thread for sure, you can see in the rod end and the port reduces to .66-.67in then makes a 70-90 turn
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[bigbadbob]

Trust but verify. I'd make sure the one you want to use works properly first.

How does one dry test???
Or is that possible??
Could disassemble it and have a look see,,,
Have not dealt much with hydraulics.
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[Mike from Maine]

You can cycle the cylinder with air pressure. Remove the plugs from both ports. When you blow air in the base end it will extend. -- it will not extend smoothly and may extend suddenly -- be ready for it. It will take 20-25psi for it to move.


I think you will find the big cylinder slow with a 22gpm pump.

 

[bigbadbob]

You can cycle the cylinder with air pressure. Remove the plugs from both ports. When you blow air in the base end it will extend. -- it will not extend smoothly and may extend suddenly -- be ready for it. It will take 20-25psi for it to move.


I think you will find the big cylinder slow with a 22gpm pump.

Thanks will see what it does,,,
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[Time's Standing Stihl]

And whys that? Please do explain.

It's kind of hard to explain anything when your from MI

 

[muddstopper]

You keep saying if one cyl dont work you will just swap to the other. There is a lot of difference in the length of the cyl as well as the pin size. Just swapping isnt going to be a easy swap. It will mean cutting off and moving/remaking the mounts, boring out or sleeving the pin holes and because of dia, possibly having to completely remake the pusher block. As has been said, the big cyl is going to be slow with the 22gpm pump. It might make 50% more power, (that you will probably never need), but it will also be about 50% slower in cycle times. Personally, I wouldnt want that big cyl unless I had 50gpm of oil to throw at it. It seems to me some folks here want to see you use the big cyl, but they are not the ones who will actually be using it, and I have my doubts that many here would need such a high tonnage splitter for their own use. Maybe someone with a tree service that sees lots oversized forked wood would need such splitting power, but not for large dia (30in) douglas fir. Just food for thought, a 30in dia round split 6ways will yield 6 15in wide pieces, each having to be resplit at least once. Resplitting with a very slow ram is a real pain in the arse, and wont require a fraction of the tonnage the big cylinder can provide

 

[bigbadbob]

You keep saying if one cyl dont work you will just swap to the other. There is a lot of difference in the length of the cyl as well as the pin size. Just swapping isnt going to be a easy swap. It will mean cutting off and moving/remaking the mounts, boring out or sleeving the pin holes and because of dia, possibly having to completely remake the pusher block. As has been said, the big cyl is going to be slow with the 22gpm pump. It might make 50% more power, (that you will probably never need), but it will also be about 50% slower in cycle times. Personally, I wouldnt want that big cyl unless I had 50gpm of oil to throw at it. It seems to me some folks here want to see you use the big cyl, but they are not the ones who will actually be using it, and I have my doubts that many here would need such a high tonnage splitter for their own use. Maybe someone with a tree service that sees lots oversized forked wood would need such splitting power, but not for large dia (30in) douglas fir. Just food for thought, a 30in dia round split 6ways will yield 6 15in wide pieces, each having to be resplit at least once. Resplitting with a very slow ram is a real pain in the arse, and wont require a fraction of the tonnage the big cylinder can provide

Thank
Yes swapping would be a big job.
Am leaning towards the red one.
Much easier to install, it is new.
Way faster.
Probably more power than I need anyways. The big one needs new eyes at the dumb end also.
I have no way of making 2 1/4 holes for the pins and one pin boss is bent..
If I use the red I don't have to plate the beam, but I have the steel may do that anyway.
I only do at the very most 10 cord a year, depends on whos begging and stealing,,,,
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[Cerran]

Thank
Yes swapping would be a big job.
Am leaning towards the red one.
Much easier to install, it is new.
Way faster.
Probably more power than I need anyways. The big one needs new eyes at the dumb end also.
I have no way of making 2 1/4 holes for the pins and one pin boss is bent..
If I use the red I don't have to plate the beam, but I have the steel may do that anyway.
I only do at the very most 10 cord a year, depends on whos begging and stealing,,,,
BBB

I think you're on the right track then. More power isn't always better. If you're splitting primarily Red Fir honestly 8 ton is generally enough so having 25 ton should be more than you need for such a straight grain wood. Cycle time counts for a lot, even with a 4-way wedge.