Sustainable logging

[horseloger]

You burn it

 

[Gologit]

Even during times of high fire danger? And doesn't fresh horse poop need a pretty hot fire to sterilize it?

 

[horseloger]

No of corse not at those times you would ether have too pack it out or bauiry it any regular fire should sterilize it but in most cases you shouldn't have to worry about it because deer elk and most other animals in the forest eat from the same grass lands that the horses do ! and this question has never come up before they allow horse back riding in the wilderness areas and I dont think they requirer them to do anything spacial as far as I know! But thats a good question!

 

[lfnh]

I've been hearing a lot about horselogging in the wilderness areas. I think it's a great idea but I have a question.

Since everything you pack into a wilderness area has to be packed back out, what do you do with the horse poop? I mean, the horses eat grain and hay, none of which is a native plant in the wilderness area. The horses, being normal horses, poop. The poop contains seeds. If the seeds take root wouldn't that be a violation of the non-native plant species regulation?

So what's the answer here? Lot's of buckets? Really big diapers? Poop sterilization procedures? I'm really curious about this.

Really big diapers -lmao, maybe xxxxxxL Pampers...

actually good question. short answer it depends where you are.

Most Western states now make you pack in certified (by state) weed-free hay.
yeah, it's gotta have a tag on it or color tied. Grain is ok IF it's commercial grain.
If not, no go.

Used to be free graze was a no brainer on National Forests and Wilderness Areas.
That's all changed/changing like everything else. Safest to pack it in, unless you have a grazing permit or know for certain free graze is allowed in your area of work.
All this applies to horse, mule, lhama, etc.

People were stupid careless and invasive plants have gotten a foothold and have ruined alot of good ground.

The whole grazing thing is another inferno of lawsuits by people that have to much time on their hands and money to burn.

 

[floyd]

No I am not. I live where men are men & sheep are scared.

In some watersheds it is a requirement to diaper the animal. Don't ya love it?
Yup. OK, now here is why. Wildlife eat & live there. Horses are brought in, they don't eat there. So, they will have different bugs in their gut vs. the bugs in the
resident wildlife. Same bugs in the soil. So everyone is used th those bugs & no citiots get sick.

I never worked where I had to diaper my animals.

USFS requirements have been discussed, certified weed free hay. You should see some of it. 110# bales maybe 2'x2'. Pressed, just like the hay shipped overseas in containers.

Sort of related.. there are "bun bags" that hang off harness, or a saddle, to catch manure before it hits the street or trail. I never used one & I would not in heavy draft work in the field or the brush.
------------------------
Just a little aside here...close your eyes & hear the bells above the roar of the Minam. Then look around & here comes 17 heavy boned black pack mules, head & tailed, going up the double switchback at a trot. The bell tones are as clear as church bells.
Kind of like looking up in a redwood or sequoia grove, eh?

 

[Gologit]

.... another inferno of lawsuits by people that have to much time on their hands and money to burn.

Very true. And they're not usually directly involved in, or economically affected by, the the causes they commit themselves to.

Thanks for the information on horse feed etc. Good post. I probably won't ever do any work in a formal wilderness area but I've always been curious about it.

 

[slowp]

Very true. And they're not usually directly involved in, or economically affected by, the the causes they commit themselves to.

Thanks for the information on horse feed etc. Good post. I probably won't ever do any work in a formal wilderness area but I've always been curious about it.

I have signed up for a trail work session, which is free. But I don't know if I get to go or not.

If I go, which hardhat to take? The old MacDonald T which probably wouldn't do the job if something came down from the sky, or the brand new blue hat, on which I will need a sticker to make it look more authentic?

Ooops, I am straying. Did you know that they did have to have diapers on the horses that logged the Tacoma Watershed?

We were not allowed to even drive through the Seattle one when there was a fire going and that was the short way. But after a few days of pow wowing we got to enter it and dig line.

 

[ChainsawmanXX]

I've been hearing a lot about horselogging in the wilderness areas. I think it's a great idea but I have a question.

Since everything you pack into a wilderness area has to be packed back out, what do you do with the horse poop? I mean, the horses eat grain and hay, none of which is a native plant in the wilderness area. The horses, being normal horses, poop. The poop contains seeds. If the seeds take root wouldn't that be a violation of the non-native plant species regulation?

So what's the answer here? Lot's of buckets? Really big diapers? Poop sterilization procedures? I'm really curious about this.

Well i guess horse poop would be alot better than motor oil all over the place :msp_blink:

You'd think they wouldn't care about the horse poop considering the bear poops in the woods haha

 

[Gologit]

I have signed up for a trail work session, which is free. But I don't know if I get to go or not.

If I go, which hardhat to take? The old MacDonald T which probably wouldn't do the job if something came down from the sky, or the brand new blue hat, on which I will need a sticker to make it look more authentic?

I could send you another Explosives sticker...or would that make people nervous?

 

[slowp]

Well i guess horse poop would be alot better than motor oil all over the place :msp_blink:

You'd think they wouldn't care about the horse poop considering the bear poops in the woods haha

The saddle horses poop on the trails, which seems to bother some of the hikers. It is easy enough to kick off. Our area has horse camps that are on the edge of the wilderness area.

The trail in the Grand Canyon was running green when we backpacked back up. There'd been a snow, which the mules turned green, then there was a lot of green runoff.
That was a bit of a shock as I thought National Parks were into keeping things neat and tidy.

Yes, equipment leaks. Most operators carry stuff to absorb it. On contracts here, there is a Prevention of Oil Spills section, and if there is a large amount of fuel or oil stored, like on a helicopter landing, there has to be a spill prevention plan submitted. That usually consists of some kind of barrier put around the fuel truck to keep the fuel from spreading out should a spill occur.

 

[slowp]

I could send you another Explosives sticker...or would that make people nervous?

Perfect. And I have a Columbia Helicopters one somewhere. :msp_biggrin:

 

[horseloger]

Well there again chainsaw xx they can carry in invasive species that could cause damage and there again the city folks dont like seeing poop in there trail, but just like using chainsaws in wilderness areas that I'm sure can be negotiated out in the contract! As with every thing else there has to be some give and take!

 

[Greystoke]

So what do you think it cost to feed a horse shoe or do you know anything about it at all !

Not sure how much it costs to feed a horseshoe:monkey: I do know how much it costs to shoe a draft horse...round these parts is about $150-$200 every four to six weeks...more if you are using them for logging as they need caulks. BTW, I have shod a few horses, went to MSU horseshoeing school to get my education so I now KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT SHOEING HORSES

Well that says it all as I said before if that timber had been managed correctly then maybe you guys would still be in big timber you wont see that again! It defiantly wont be clear cut and you people can cry in your pretzels all you want but it wont change the fact that what you have had, you have destroyed ! where is the science wheres your proof that your way is the only way! You say you want too here about horse logging and as soon as other people post you guys start in and try cutting them down The trees your thinning now will never be the trees that were there and you say Im in the minority but I think in reality you folks are in the minority and thats why your so intent on proving every other way is wrong other than yours ! And I know you folks weren't responsible personally for most of this, the problems is you want to hold on to these ideas that destroyed your way of life . And all the name calling and nick picking will never bring that back ! Logging will continue but in a way different way than your use too ! And I not trying to win any essay or writing contest so if you dont like the way I wright then dont look at my posts!!!!!!!!!

You know pard, you don't even deserve to grab hold of a powersaw, or set foot in the woods...with all of your ignorance, you claim to be a logger, but I have always felt like it was a brotherhood, and I have been a part of the best brotherhood out there in the logging world, and you would definitely not make the grade in my world. What do you think every major city in a forested part of our country is? It is a CLEARCUT! You went to Purdue, did you not read history books? Every major city in a forested environment started out right in the heart of the best timber, with a Sawmill. Look at pictures of the old days and see big stumps lining the streets. All the seed eatin granola hippies in San Francisco (and every other tree huggin liberal city on the West Coast) should thank Loggers and Clearcuts for their wonderful cities. It pisses me off when some ignorant maggot forgets those facts, so the next time you start bashing clearcuts, you better stop and think about what really kicked started this great country of ours. And you call yourself a Logger?? You definitely don't deserve that title, because you don't even know what it takes to be one. A real logger...it's in his blood, and he is proud to be part of the brotherhood! Nuff said?

 

[Gologit]

Perfect. And I have a Columbia Helicopters one somewhere. :msp_biggrin:

Done deal. Keep the Columbia sticker for yourself though. " No vendor endorsements" rule, ya know.

Besides, I got bored yesterday and put all new conspicuity tape on my MacT...no room for stickers now. :msp_wink:

 

[madhatte]

I have a bumper sticker that says "Legalize Lutefisk!" but it's too big for a helmet.

 

[slowp]

I had one that said, "It's hard to be humble when you are Norwegian!" But I traded that car in.

My Earth First one wore out. Time to order a new one or two.

What a gorgeous day it is today! I've been splitting wood and doing hot tub maintenance, and entertaining the Used Dog..multi-tasking.

 

[floyd]

so, does the earth first say something about we will log the rest ot the planets later?

 

[ChrisF]

I have a bumper sticker that says "Legalize Lutefisk!" but it's too big for a helmet.

Haha, I love it!

(the sticker, not the food. Lutefisk is horrible)

"It's hard to be humble when you are Norwegian!"

In-freaking-deed!

 

[Gologit]

Lutefisk is horrible

I've always thought that when you went to visit somebody and they served you lutefisk, that maybe it was a not so subtle message of some kind.

Does anybody really like that stuff?

 

[Samlock]

I do. Boiled and served with white sauce. Delicious!