Sustainable logging

[paccity]

Did do work for BLM and FS for fuel load mapping -ground truthing for aerial estimating; forest and wilderness trail clearing and maintenance; packed rode, grunted and swore in Wyoming and Eastern Oregon.
Built my own harness, rigging, and pack saddles. Have skidded and hauled earth and rock with horsepower - both kinds.
Have owned and run long horns on forest and blm grazing allotments in E Oregon and put up with cut fences and smashed gates from elk and "concerned guardians of the forest".

Have clearcut ROW tracks for electric transmission lines. Actually it was complete deforestation. Have also done selective cutting for stand health.

Have worked and seen some ground with best and worst forest harvest and mangement. Same goes for ranching.

The times we are in now, it seems extremes in thinking prevail and lawsuits severely hamper best management practices for the resource. The cost of compliance and regulatory mis-direction are being underwritten by the taxpayer and end consumer. One size fits all proscription is not likely to succeed.

just my opinion.

Mods - appolgies for topic detour.

sounded on topic to me.

 

[redprospector]

I said based on the science that the judges made the decisions on if they have the proper information in front of them, then they should be able to make the proper judgement thats what judges are there for to evaluate the evidence placed in front of them and make a decision base on the facts !

Ok, now explain away the snot and tears.

Andy

 

[horseloger]

Ok, now explain away the snot and tears.

Andy

No snot and tears just the facts

 

[horseloger]

Did do work for BLM and FS for fuel load mapping -ground truthing for aerial estimating; forest and wilderness trail clearing and maintenance; packed rode, grunted and swore in Wyoming and Eastern Oregon.
Built my own harness, rigging, and pack saddles. Have skidded and hauled earth and rock with horsepower - both kinds.
Have owned and run long horns on forest and blm grazing allotments in E Oregon and put up with cut fences and smashed gates from elk and "concerned guardians of the forest".

Have clearcut ROW tracks for electric transmission lines. Actually it was complete deforestation. Have also done selective cutting for stand health.

Have worked and seen some ground with best and worst forest harvest and mangement. Same goes for ranching.

The times we are in now, it seems extremes in thinking prevail and lawsuits severely hamper best management practices for the resource. The cost of compliance and regulatory mis-direction are being underwritten by the taxpayer and end consumer. One size fits all proscription is not likely to succeed.

just my opinion.

Mods - appolgies for topic detour.

no one size doesn't fit all and thats just it if the facts are presented to the powers that be and the public in the right way maybe some of the law suits would be stopped . And the end consumer is going to win out no matter what you do they that hold the gold make the rules and they are saying they dont like clear cutting unless it serves there purpose! IE power lines home sites so on and so forth

 

[redprospector]

I said based on the science that the judges made the decisions on if they have the proper information in front of them, then they should be able to make the proper judgement thats what judges are there for to evaluate the evidence placed in front of them and make a decision base on the facts ! Then what do you call it if its not bashing like I said any time you guys here something you dont like you start in bashing them you automatically labeled me some sort of hippie tree hugger and didn't even considered that there might be a better way only they way you guys think it should be done ! I was under the understanding that this forum was to discuss new Ideas and exchange knowledge not run the guy into the ground because he operates in a different way than you do! So if I came on here and started attacking your operation your knowledge in the way you folks have done to me, you would defend yourself too SO buck up buttercup .

I hate it when someone edits a previous post after I've quoted it. :msp_angry:
You're doing exactly what you're accusing everyone else of doing. You evidently do "selective cutting", and you come in here telling everyone that clear cutting is the work of the devil, and is not acceptable. It was discussed that there should be different prescriptions for different situations. In one post you'd agree with that, and in another you'd say that those who have worked on clear cuts, and agree with their use is stupid.
People won't usually attack you if you don't come in swinging. You might not need to defend yourself if you didn't attack in the first place.
I do selective cutting too. Not because I agree with what you say, but because clear cutting doesn't work well in this region. It is very dry here and the trees grow very slowly. The survival rate in planting seedlings is very low, so we do selective cutting. You, like a lot of others seem to be trying to apply the "science" for your region to everywhere.
Science is based on fact's, and both are subject to change.

Andy

 

[Meadow Beaver]

Yes there is more than one way to do sustainable logging and clear cuts do have there place, but only when disease or infiltration of foreign spices have dominated an area and they need to be removed ! And this is based on scientific principles
And this tread was to discuss the different ways of sustainable logging not bash anyone with a different way of operating!

You've got it backwards dude.

And, you're the one not excepting others perspectives towards types logging. If you weren't so against the thought of clear-cut logging you might learn something form people who have been there and done that.

 

[redprospector]

No snot and tears just the facts

Hahaha. I understand and am willing to cooperate but...................................they're picking on me, and calling me names, and bla, bla, bla.
Like I said. Facts are subject to change.
I haven't seen you present anything but opinion, and attitude.

Andy

 

[Gypo Logger]

Lots of Sustainability going on in this thread! Lol

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=18877

 

[hammerlogging]

over story was released and the cherry took dominance.

leaching is the proses of water removing nutrients from the soil in the process of erosion that is the damage it dose.

And horses use less roads less skid trails and more suspension.

Not true, not true, and not true.

 

[forestryworks]

foreign spices

Black Pepper?

 

[slowp]

On the topic of judges being the deciders...

A judge made a couple of decisions on a couple of sales here. He decided that ground based logging--that would include horses, would be too harsh on the soils.
So, skyline had to be used. There were old skid trails from the past, no signs of erosion, they'd healed up, but it had to be skylined.

Judges make decisions based on technicalities, sometimes extremely small technicalities in documents. They do not get out of their office. They do not know what is on the ground. They are not foresters. Would you want a judge deciding how best to remove your appendix? That's what has happened in the woods.

The ground was not shaped right. Intermediate supports had to be rigged up, and they were not called for during the planning process. Downhilling of some parts had to be done. It looks good, but was a pain for the loggers to do.

Did I read a line about horses getting better suspension than anything out there?
Do you have flying horses?

On horses needing less roads? What is your maximum skidding distance you can do and make money doing so? I've always figured a quarter mile for skidders.
Helicopters can go farther, as can a yarder.

We are pointing out that horse logging is not the ONLY way to log and it is not even feasible on most of the ground WHERE I LIVE AND WORK. Now it may be in Missouri or Arkansas or where ever you live.

We are selling timber that grew in the clearcuts of the 50's and 60's and it is good straight, nice timber. That's my definition of sustainable.

Read my signature please.

 

[floyd]

What has not been mentioned is horses in the brush bunching to a fowarder. Could be horse powered as well. Some guys have them.

I have used blocks & cable, a 1/4" main line, to go where it was too steep for the team.


To me that is trying to compete with machine logging. It is real different out there just talking trash to your team while you move wood. A guy still has to saw some but it is mostly quiet.



The suspension talked about involves an arch that raises the front of the log modeled after the arches pulled by crawler tractors yrs ago. Not too handy on the sides of canyons


Any moron with a team can trash a skid trail ...just like any moron with a rubber tired skidder or crawler can.

 

[horseloger]

Yes And you can also high line over a creek or gully with the right set up!