The Stihl MS661 C-M recall

[tree monkey]

the stihl rep told me the saws do not pass epa

 

[windthrown]

the stihl rep told me the saws do not pass epa

Not really possible any more. They would not have sold any here if that were the case. They have to be EPA tested and approved before they hit the US shelves. New EPA methods and product control are in place on the factory and import side to prevent that. Also, they have been recalled worldwide, not just here. But an amusing story, nonetheless. The real reason that Stihl is going with M-tronic is that new EU smog laws are getting a lot tougher, so this round of smog updates is actually more EU driven than US driven, and the M-tronic saws should all sail through the current EPA testing requirements.
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[windthrown]

Heard from some buddies in the UK today that they are hearing what I was told here; that the 661 will be re-released in the April-May timeframe. That is also what I am reading on the German arbor forums, so... it looks like mid year before the 661 beastie returns. Also it seems far more likely to be a mechanical issue like cranks and cylinders, than the electronics. Electronics could be swapped out and SW easily updated in the field. Jugs and/or cranks... not easy.

 

[CR888]

This is why I reconsidered a cm 362
I think they just haven't got it ironed out yet electronically . It is my understanding these technology's are derived from husqvarna initially and stihl hasn't got the kinks as refined

The stihl system is pretty rock solid...less probs than Husky thats for sure. Even the husky system ain't bad. Talk to the guys that work on them and get the 'real story'. Its like any new technological advancement, you always find a loud crowd that cans it. (people are scared of things they don't understand) I say its the sole biggest improvement in 20 or so years in OPE. Geez it senses air leaks and prevents lean siezure, takes the human error factor away from lean carb siezure, tunes your engine X amount of times per second always giving you the best performance regardless of conditions and so on. Remember the feared 'strato' engine...did'nt that turn out to be scary.

 

[CR888]

Not really possible any more. They would not have sold any here if that were the case. They have to be EPA tested and approved before they hit the US shelves. New EPA methods and product control are in place on the factory and import side to prevent that. Also, they have been recalled worldwide, not just here. But an amusing story, nonetheless. The real reason that Stihl is going with M-tronic is that new EU smog laws are getting a lot tougher, so this round of smog updates is actually more EU driven than US driven, and the M-tronic saws should all sail through the current EPA testing requirements.
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l like windthrown posts, he's been puttin lots of usefull stuff on the table lately!

 

[windthrown]

As for latest tech, I read/hear that Stihl is putting its design energy into a new 'I' line of chainsaws: Fuel Injection. Which is another reason for developing the precursor M-tronic computer modules and engine control units. They already have developed FI in some of the cutoff saws.

 

[flotek]

I build two stroke drag engines for Atv sleds and dirt bikes ..When injection comes you'll be getting some big advancement in power and efficiency . Fuel injected engines are in their infancy in production two cycles but the ones tested and developed by race shops have made big power in the race community . It's not like on a four stroke ..This could realistically offer. 50% more power in some cases

 

[mdavlee]

Recalls and updated parts isn't quite the same thing, but yes the ford 6.0 psd is laden with a lot of very common issues. It's not if the egr cooler will go its more of when. And please god let is start one more time is said way to often when you have a high pressure oil leak ,....Cummins lots of power and good for many miles but also not without it's issues.4000 $ when the injectors fail in the post injector pump motors. And you have to deal with the worst tarnnies ever along with that joke of a soda can of a truck they bolt around the motor, the AM axles are crap blowing cariers and front wheel bearings every 50k And no lockout hubs , Then we have the chevy durimax .... Fantastic riding truck, no real front axle . Absolutely no power , Alison trans is fantastic. Brakes mediocre for a 1 ton truck and a sub par frame . We need a cummins motor , Alison trans , ford rears and frame and brakes , and a Chevy body and interior and then wow we got a great truck ,that should only cost 100 k lol. They are all crap for the 50 -70 k we spend on them . Kind of like chainsaws . Pick your own flavor they are all good or bad in their own ways none better than the others as far as being without issues . They are all machines , if you expect them to be perfect you will eventually be diapointed

Cummins still uses an injection pump. I don't know where you got the $4k for parts either. The pump and a new set of injectors is $2500.

I hope stihl will get the 661 fixed up soon. They really seem to be a step forward from the 660 to me.

 

[zogger]

Recalls and updated parts isn't quite the same thing, but yes the ford 6.0 psd is laden with a lot of very common issues. It's not if the egr cooler will go its more of when. And please god let is start one more time is said way to often when you have a high pressure oil leak ,....Cummins lots of power and good for many miles but also not without it's issues.4000 $ when the injectors fail in the post injector pump motors. And you have to deal with the worst tarnnies ever along with that joke of a soda can of a truck they bolt around the motor, the AM axles are crap blowing cariers and front wheel bearings every 50k And no lockout hubs , Then we have the chevy durimax .... Fantastic riding truck, no real front axle . Absolutely no power , Alison trans is fantastic. Brakes mediocre for a 1 ton truck and a sub par frame . We need a cummins motor , Alison trans , ford rears and frame and brakes , and a Chevy body and interior and then wow we got a great truck ,that should only cost 100 k lol. They are all crap for the 50 -70 k we spend on them . Kind of like chainsaws . Pick your own flavor they are all good or bad in their own ways none better than the others as far as being without issues . They are all machines , if you expect them to be perfect you will eventually be diapointed

Well, your hybrid, or I would like something like a toyota hilux diesel 4x4 one ton.

You see the top gear try to kill it episodes with their little half ton, and then pictures in the third world with 28 people, luggage and goats stacked up two stories high being driven constantly with no roads, well..there's tough, then there's tough....

 

[zogger]

Anyway, back on topic. Computer controlled is the future, I am confident they will get it sorted out.

 

[Knobby57]

Th

Cummins still uses an injection pump. I don't know where you got the $4k for parts either. The pump and a new set of injectors is $2500.

I hope stihl will get the 661 fixed up soon. They really seem to be a step forward from the 660 to me.

Your information is incorrect , the no longer use a mechanical driven injector pump , they use something more along the lines of a gas fuel injector not a nozzle , I just did my brothers 3 months a ago factory reman injector 470 each, lines to the injectors another 150. Fuel filters and valve cover gasket . 4 knif I charged labor that was on a 2004

 

[firebrick43]

Not really possible any more. They would not have sold any here if that were the case. They have to be EPA tested and approved before they hit the US shelves. New EPA methods and product control are in place on the factory and import side to prevent that. Also, they have been recalled worldwide, not just here. But an amusing story, nonetheless. The real reason that Stihl is going with M-tronic is that new EU smog laws are getting a lot tougher, so this round of smog updates is actually more EU driven than US driven, and the M-tronic saws should all sail through the current EPA testing requirements.
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I don't work on the 2cycle side but large diesels. I know for a fact that engines can pass emissions at the factory test cells and 100 hours or so down the road fail emissions. That is why you see either the 50, 150, or 300 hour EPA warranty depending if it's a homeowners or pro saw. If the spot check(and they do) several engines and they fail then the company has to recall and are accessed major fines.

Carb, or the California air resource board are real nazis about this.

 

[Knobby57]

Wouldn't it be a real SOB if they bring back the 661 with 2 hp less after having to adjust to meet emissions , wish I got one when I could have

 

[Chris-PA]

I build two stroke drag engines for Atv sleds and dirt bikes ..When injection comes you'll be getting some big advancement in power and efficiency . Fuel injected engines are in their infancy in production two cycles but the ones tested and developed by race shops have made big power in the race community . It's not like on a four stroke ..This could realistically offer. 50% more power in some cases

Since I doubt they will be doing direct cylinder injection on a chainsaw, can you tell what advantages injection into the case would have over AT/MT? I do not see a single one, other than an attempt to get around paying royalties.

 

[mdavlee]

Th


Your information is incorrect , the no longer use a mechanical driven injector pump , they use something more along the lines of a gas fuel injector not a nozzle , I just did my brothers 3 months a ago factory reman injector 470 each, lines to the injectors another 150. Fuel filters and valve cover gasket . 4 knif I charged labor that was on a 2004

The CP3 is driven off a gear above the camshaft. It feeds the rail with one line. I was buying injectors for $300 a pop in 2009. Never bought lines. I've had 7 of the common rails and run them up to 600 hp daily drivers. I've done over $100k in mods to my trucks and bought a few CPs and injectors

 

[CR500]

I build two stroke drag engines for Atv sleds and dirt bikes ..When injection comes you'll be getting some big advancement in power and efficiency . Fuel injected engines are in their infancy in production two cycles but the ones tested and developed by race shops have made big power in the race community . It's not like on a four stroke ..This could realistically offer. 50% more power in some cases

I believe ISR is mndating EFI for SnoCross sleds for 2015.... I think Polaris will have to sadly change the chassis I love that IQR chassis do much I may buy one.

 

[mdavlee]

I wish the FI would go ahead and come out. Maybe then we wouldn't have to mess with the carb cleanings.

 

[redtractor]

I wish the FI would go ahead and come out. Maybe then we wouldn't have to mess with the carb cleanings.

Seems like we'll be trading routine carb cleaning for a whole new world of head scratching.

 

[sarge3604]

I probably would have been upset if I had to give up my new saw so I guess this is good. Oh well maybe I can get one in a box needing a piston here in a year or so.

I talked with a guy at the IH dealer about the 6.0. He said they tried to pack it into a space it wasn't designed to fit. He said the warranty rate on them in the mid size IH trucks was 10% or so instead of the 30-40% it was on the F series.

I dont know why that would be a problem they fit a 7.3 in that chassis and im a cummins guy but the 7.3 was a great engine

 

[mdavlee]

I dont know why that would be a problem they fit a 7.3 in that chassis and im a cummins guy but the 7.3 was a great engine

It didn't have any egr stuff and the egr cooler shoved under there.