To Port or Not to Port

[jack-the-ripper]

I consider myself the "basic firewood cutter". My 2 saws are thoroughly cleaned after each days use. Air filters cleaned and chains touched up also. The 660 was ported by Big Dave which runs much stronger than in its stock form. The 372 runs great with the muffler modd only. If a guy wants better performance from a saw then I say modd away. Better performance means more wood being cut up while running the saws. Call me crazy but I really enjoy running my saws, almost as much fun as riding dirt bikes when I was younger. I did say almost .

 

[bcorradi]

the 2159 was definately lacking out of the box
i hav'nt had any of my other saws modded yet, other than muffler mods i don't intend on getting any port modding done (famous last words)
they are louder, i always wear ear muffs so the noise is not bothersome it sounds awesome, goto youtube enter "ehp2159" and you should find my little video.
klickit, i think i get the gist of what your saying, i am therefore an owner/operator as i own all my equipment and am the only one that uses it.
i know of tree companies in my are that don't even sharpen their own chains, when they are done for the day they just don't have the desire to sharpen several chains every night

Thanks woodfarmer for clearing that up.

 

[bcorradi]

I consider myself the "basic firewood cutter". My 2 saws are thoroughly cleaned after each days use. Air filters cleaned and chains touched up also. The 660 was ported by Big Dave which runs much stronger than in its stock form. The 372 runs great with the muffler modd only. If a guy wants better performance from a saw then I say modd away. Better performance means more wood being cut up while running the saws. Call me crazy but I really enjoy running my saws, almost as much fun as riding dirt bikes when I was younger. I did say almost .

Thanks jack. I've always heard that the port timing on an 066 is pretty optimum right out of the box. Its interesting to hear that you've noticed a real noticeable gain from it.

 

[timberwolf]

Gains are much harder to find on an 066 than a 359, but still 15 or 20% can be gained with each the 066 engine and muffler. Cutting time can be reduced by close to 50% with a decent chain.

With the 359 nearly twice that can be gained percentage wise on cut time. Cutting time can be cut in half with a decent chain.

 

[RiverRat2]

Basic saw logic 101

Gains are much harder to find on an 066 than a 359, but still 15 or 20% can be gained with each the 066 engine and muffler. Cutting time can be reduced by close to 50% with a decent chain.

With the 359 nearly twice that can be gained percentage wise on cut time. Cutting time can be cut in half with a decent chain.

That pretty much sums it up,,,I love the power of my modded saws no doubt,,but all the difference in the world is made up by a really sharp chain,,,
I would guess that is why a professionl race chain can sell for 500.00 or more!!!!!

 

[timberwolf]

Rereading, I am not sure that I was clear, Using a good sharp chain to test with the cutting time of the 359 can be cut in half from bone stock to ported and muffler moddified.

As RiverRat says, chain is a big part of the equassion, realy anyone who cares enough about performance to have a saw ported should take the time to learn how to square file or grind as another 15 or 20% can be had in going to square chain.

with the 359 I found individual gains were as follows based on improved cut time.

Muffler ~35%
Engine Porting (to upper end woodsaw limit) ~35%
Chain from stock to square ~15%
Chain from square to race ~ 10 - 15%

1.35 x 1.35 x 1.15 x 1.15 = 240% improvement, in reality the gain was even more than that going from about 10 seconds in a cut for 12 inch poplar down to a little over 2.

I think the real gain adds up to more than the product of the individual gains as they compliment each other and allow the saw to cut at a higher RPM in the cut and use a taller gear gaining chain speed.

 

[RiverRat2]

Modded saws

I was only using the race chain as an example of the difference the chain can make,,,

no one in their right mind would use one for working on a woods ported saw for everday use,,,,,,,,,,

But then,,,,is there anybody here in their right mind????????? :jester:

 

[Gypo Logger]

With a modified 385, the trees seem to simply jump right off the stump and onto the truck. In fact, they actually piss their roots when they see me coming. My 385 has cut about 500,000 ft of Rock Maple and I swear it gets faster as time goes by. I have only replaced the rings twice whether it needed it or not, putting one new one in the top and leaving the old one in the bottom.
John

 

[bcorradi]

Rereading, I am not sure that I was clear, Using a good sharp chain to test with the cutting time of the 359 can be cut in half from bone stock to ported and muffler moddified.

As RiverRat says, chain is a big part of the equassion, realy anyone who cares enough about performance to have a saw ported should take the time to learn how to square file or grind as another 15 or 20% can be had in going to square chain.

with the 359 I found individual gains were as follows based on improved cut time.

Muffler ~35%
Engine Porting (to upper end woodsaw limit) ~35%
Chain from stock to square ~15%
Chain from square to race ~ 10 - 15%

1.35 x 1.35 x 1.15 x 1.15 = 240% improvement, in reality the gain was even more than that going from about 10 seconds in a cut for 12 inch poplar down to a little over 2.

I think the real gain adds up to more than the product of the individual gains as they compliment each other and allow the saw to cut at a higher RPM in the cut and use a taller gear gaining chain speed.

Thanks thats real good information. If we remove race chain from the equation it is roughly 1.35% + 1.35% + 1.15% = 210%. What would you guesstimate the cut time to be? If we remove the engine porting and racechain it comes out to roughly 155% = 1.35 x 1.15. What would you guesstimate the cut time to be?

 

[timberwolf]

About 3 seconds with a plain square filed chain, maybe about 4 or a little less with a round chain.

 

[bcorradi]

Ok I assume those time are with porting. How bout with just a muffler mod?

 

[timberwolf]

Muffler mod alone with good square chain maybe 6 or 7 seconds. But you would not likely be able to pull an 8 tooth gear.

Also race chain does not come into it's own until the other aspects are looked after and the rpm in the cut starts to climb.

Going to race chain may let you run an 8 tooth gear that would not work as well with a round chain. Right there chain speed jumps 14% and if the chain cuts more efficiently and takes out less wood the difference can be huge.

 

[RiverRat2]

With a modified 385, the trees seem to simply jump right off the stump and onto the truck. In fact, they actually piss their roots when they see me coming. My 385 has cut about 500,000 ft of Rock Maple and I swear it gets faster as time goes by. I have only replaced the rings twice whether it needed it or not, putting one new one in the top and leaving the old one in the bottom.
John

Nice Pix as always John,,,,

Pi$$in their Roots seein yas,,,,, Ehhhh,

I'm bettin they Shat in their crotches as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:jawdrop: :jawdrop:

 

[timberwolf]

I upload this 359 video before, See if it works.

http://new.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33819&d=1147301780

 

[bcorradi]

Thanks for answering my questions. Don't worry I have a lot more lol.
So are these probably rough #'s with round filed chain in 12" poplar?

10 seconds = stock form, round filed chain, 7t sprocket
7 seconds = muffler mod, round filed chain, 7t sprocket
3-4 seconds = muffler mod, ported, round filed chain, 8t sprocket

Is it true that most 50cc saws are woods modded to run a higher rpm vs more torque? As a rule of thumb the higher cc of saw the higher weight we tend to put on torque vs rpm? A woods modded 066 probably won't perform much faster if at all, in in the smaller wood like we are using for our example, than the 359?

 

[timberwolf]

I don't think the best woods port is one that focuses on RPM. The strongest woods saws I have built were all ones aimed at torque, and might only run a 1000 - 1500 RPM or so higher than a stock saw in the cut, but they will pull with a sprocket 1 or 2 teeth larger than stock.

An 066 will cut fast in small wood if you gear up to a 10 tooth or use chain with the rakers filed down a good ways.

 

[bcorradi]

Ok. Based on your experience how do the following models compare? I'm using older stihl models for this example not intended to start any manufacturer or model wars. In all the examples below I'm running the same length bar, pitch, gauge, round filed, and 12" poplar. Could we just increase the # of pins on the muffler modded saws and get comparable cut times?
Woods ported 026 vs a muffler modded 036

Woods ported 026 vs a muffler modded 044

 

[timberwolf]

An 026 will be hard pressed to pull an 8 pin 3/8 esp in 12 inch wood, infact an 8 pin 3/8 rim is not made in the stihl small spline.

Giving up 11 CC's ~20% to a 036 would about cancel out the gains from porting. Could be close.

Giving up 21 CC's ~ 45% to a muffler modded 044 would leave a ported modded 026 in the dust all other things being equal.

 

[bcorradi]

Yes you are correct I do not believe you can get an 8t stihl mini spline. As the wood became bigger and more dense (harder) would the 036 start to pull away from the 026?

 

[timberwolf]

Yes, in small would maybe something like 6 inches a ported 026 might sneak past the others just on chain speed. But a lot could depend on chain setup.

Now put a 9 pin sprocket on a ported 460 and run it against a stock 066 in small wood and that is a whole different story. The 460 should eat up the 066.