Tree Machine Filing Clamps

[Philbert]

Gen 2 In Use

Note how this improved design still works, even with inverted bars and skippy tooth chain, due to advanced engineering! No adjustments or calibration required!

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Tried Using the Filing Vise for Tuning Today

Tried using the Tree Machine filing vice for tuning a saw today. Had a 70cc saw running at full revs, while holding a tach and manipulating a small screwdriver: figured that an extra hand would be helpful.

The vibrations on this saw (MS046) were enough that it caused the base (clamped to a table) to move a bit, so I had to double up on the clamps holding it down. It worked, but I kept looking at that small screw holding the bar, and thinking about what would happen if it slipped at full revs - the balance of this saw is such that the bar would drop down onto the vise and maybe 'launch' the saw?

My verdict is that I still like these vises for filing, but I want something more substantial for tuning a saw, especially a larger one.
(Good way to oil the vise though!)

Phibert

 

[Philbert]

Interesting variation: double vise with ratchet strap to attach to log or table, without the use of prongs or clamps.
(Commercially made product out of Canada).

Philbert

 

[Naked Arborist]

Add rubber pads on two strips of hardwood. That's your stable tuning vice. Suspend the power head, less vibes. Be careful.

 

[Philbert]

Thread restored as best as I could.

Philbert

 

[Tree Machine]

Thank you for restoring the thread, Phlbert! Your effort is very much appreciated.

I would like to contribute more to this discussion, without coming off like a sales pitch, even though, at the core, I am hoping the readership will buy one (or two) of the clamps and enjoy the benefits of their use.

I personally made the effort to bring the bar clamp to market for the chainsaw using community, and as the developer I will stand before you, in a social manner, to share the intention, the 'whys and hows', and answer any questions directly. It has been a long road getting here, but I can spare you the non-essential details and just give you the good stuff!

Questions are wholeheartedly invited.


In 'reinventing' a device that has been around a long, long time (which was the pointy-base stump vise)
the goal was to produce something that would give the user more than what was currently being given.
Without improvements, new advantages, or usable features the mousetrap is no better.

The beginning (thoughts) started with offering a dual clamp. The above image was a 'first drawing' by the engineer, based on my pencil sketches.

Then the printed-out image was shown around to other chainsaw users, and e-mailed around for feedback.
Also during this time, the production firm is calculating a price for 10, 50, 100, 500 and 1,000 units.

If I had my own shop, and didn't have a day job, I could produce them on-demand. But with a production facility and the scheduling logistics and materials purchasing, etc,. you have to make solid commitments, so the input and feedback from the arborist and logging and forestry communities has helped guide the design all along the way.

BTW, the dual design above was scrapped almost immediately.

 

[Tree Machine]

The consensus was that you could get exactly the same performance out of two single clamps.

For many, a high-quality, long-lasting single clamp is all that is really needed.
The design was then focussed on a single unit that could optionally be paired with another single unit to offer the benefits of a dual unit.
The benefit of the dual shines most brightly when clamping longer bars, 24 inches and up.

Here is the very first model I tried, this was long before ever considering producing large numbers of them.
This was just for me, circa 1996 or 7. The goal was to overcome a couple problems with the stump vise, mainly, I didn't always have a stump.
Drilling pilot holes into my bench and pounding it in resulted in the points gradually working their way out in the midst of a sharpening session.

The thing needed to be fastened to the surface.

Cut off the points and weld on a couple pieces of angle. Crude, but effective.

 

[Tree Machine]

Here is the updated version of 'old yellow'.



These are made from angle hardware for assembling bed frames. Since they come in pairs I went ahead and made two.
The top side of the angle needed to be dadoed out to match the throat of the clamp.
This was around year 2000.

I used these for a long time, years. Many arborists saw them during that time and the positive vibe was always consistent.

 

[Tree Machine]

Some years later, I met someone with a computerized plasma cutter. I asked if he could make me more compact base.
I cleaned up the former incarnation and gave him a couple stump vises.

I was in need of a couple professional-looking models to display the ChainMeister, an innovation I had been working on for some time.

He came up with the grey models.


This guy was a retired engineer, so instinctively he created a base where a number of them could be cut out of a single plate, with minimal waste, and whose assembly could be simplified as much as possible. This involved broaching a rectangular hole into the base plate, dropping the vise portion into that rectangular hole and welding it all together from the underside. This gave a nice, clean appearance to the device

It was around this time Treestuff took notice and began encouraging me to bring this device to market.
Based on the feedback from the chainsaw community, there seemed to be an interest in the device.

Still, there was a design flaw that as a sole person I could deal with, but if it were released to the public, the shortcoming should be eliminated altogether.

This design flaw was the height of the throat.

 

[Tree Machine]

If a saw were to sit on a bench, the chain on the bottomside of the bar will sit at a certain height.
With the current versions of the clamp being used at that time, if you let the saw sit at it's natural level, the chain would be on top of the clamps throat.
This requires you to manually lift the bar up and then clamp it. The saw is then perched up and resting on a single point on it's rear handle, rather than having the weight distributed along the bottom of the saw body.

This directed the project from modifying an existing product to making a complete new one from the ground-up.

And if this were going to be the case, it begged that we also incorporate any other improvement into the design.

Any feedback?

 

[Philbert]

Thanks for jumping back in this thread Jim. It is really interesting to see all the things you tried, and all the development work it takes to come up with a finished product. It looks easy, once it is done!

I like your current design, which feels solid, and is very flexible for a number of applications. As far as the throat height, you can see how I used a block of wood under some saws, but I also have the clamps mounted on a block of wood for portability, rather than mounted directly on a bench.

It is hard to see, but in my wood block design I 'incorporated' a hole, to bolt/wingnut bars with holes without the use of clamps. Not all bars have this, of course.

If you are still thinking about other changes, pleas consider the threaded screw / hole mount I sketched out in post #9.

Philbert

 

[Tree Machine]

It is really interesting to see all the things you tried, and all the development work it takes to come up with a finished product.

[

I'm glad you think so. Sharing the development with the readership is hopefully interesting to all of you.
The bar clamps, I really thought, would be an easy design, compared to the ChainMeister, whose design was created put of pure imagination with no comparative model.
With the bar clamps, there are other styles of bar clamps out there. Making one that is better should be a breeze. Right?

This directed the project from modifying an existing product to making a complete new one from the ground-up.

And if this were going to be the case, it begged that we also incorporate any other improvement into the design.

Let me continue with pictures to share the creative process.

This is what I needed the clamps to do:




Can you see what is happening here? This is the ChainMeister, mounted on a 24" bar and stretching the chain.
See how the bar is mounted TO the clamps? Not clamped within them. This is an additional thing that needed to be incorporated into the design. Here is a top-view picture:



But it also needed to work like this, clamped within the jaws.


Watch this next photo to see how we got to here, and why this additional mount option is an important facet of the tool.

 

[Tree Machine]

I started by doing a lot of measuring, to get some definite dimensions to work with.

I did this first-draft with a pen, and a business card as a straight-edge. This is where it started.

 

[Tree Machine]

Next I took a picture of it with the camera, uploaded it to the computer and put it into Photoshop.
There I clipped in a protruding stud on the left side, and on the right, I just winged it.
I added in the dimension lines. A digital mockup.



Then I printed it out on paper and got my pen and transcribed the dimensions on.

 

[Tree Machine]

I gave a copy of this to my local welding shop.
Since a base was going to have to be welded on I thought why not weld on coupling bolts.
We revised the dimensions to not include the two upper anvils.

The shop sent the picture out to a waterjet cutter, and when it came back,
we welded on the base and welded on the coupling bolts, thereby bypassing the effort of drilling holes and the tapping threads in the clamp anvils themselves.
Here is what it looked like.



By accident, the left coupling bolt was installed too short. It needed it to extend and protrude 1/2'' out.
Interesting thought, the coupling bolts welded to the top,
but it would require another try, because as cool as this looks in it's raw form, it can be better.

 

[Tree Machine]

A complete doing-over, and this is what was eventually created.
I have to say, I was very psyched!

 

[Tree Machine]

I was so happy! This was it!
I had two of them made, and I chose blue spray paint.

It was time for field-testing!



You guys, these performed AWESOME! They did everything to perfection that I needed them to do.
They were beautiful, hefty, solid….

I really felt like I had achieved something for all of us.

 

[Tree Machine]

There was one unforseen problem, though.

Cost. Granted, the two blue ones you see in these pictures, each cost $90,
but that was material, cutting, drilling and tapping holes, and the black knob I got from Lowe's, and paint.
That's what you pay for research and development, $180 + travel and a day off work.

They're actually more like $400 apiece.

I was going to have to meet with the waterjet cutter guy again. Now that I knew that the structure and form of the bar clamp was what I wanted, it was time to get pricing and decide on how many to have fabricated. This is where it gets interesting.

 

[Tree Machine]

The computer layout at the waterjet cutters's was really fascinating.
Here is the upright of the clamp:



Here is the base:



Because the waterjet cutting is so incredibly precise, they like to lay out the parts in a nested manner for minimal waste or loss.

 

[zogger]

They look nice. What will be your estimated retail?