Underbidding $&^%%$!!!

[roostersgt]

Treemd,
Too bad you haven't learned a thing after all this exchange. You'll have nobody but yourself to blame for your shortcomings and failures. My posts weren't just for your benefit, but you couldn't care less, could you? You're very arrogant and self-centered. Please continue to ignore the adults. You'll feel better about yourself. You know it all. You know best. LMFAO.

 

[tree md]

LOL, so I guess you blame your shortcomings on someone else? And no, I doubt there is very much you could teach me in this particular trade... And I certainly wasn't asking for pointers or correction from you about anything. So do me a favor and go converse with some adults...

 

[roostersgt]

I suggest you take a few business classes, listen to a few business consultants at various stages of your career. The key concept is being able to see and use others perspectives to prosper. The type of business is irrelevant, but gosh, you probably already know all this with your fine business acumen, experience and schooling. It sure shows. I retired at 47 and live very, very comfortably. That should tell you a little something about my business experiences. Not bragging, just saying. BTW, I only blame myself for my failings and shortcomings, but I assure you it's not from a lack of listening or understanding of others who have expressed an interest in my field of business. You have a lot to learn. An awful lot. This was a free lesson of sorts. Good luck to you.

 

[ropensaddle]

Most removals do not require an Arborist, they require a competent guy who knows how to use a chainsaw to fell a tree. Most removals in my neighborhood do not threaten anyones home. They are dead 35'-40' trees either in a large front yard or backyard with no obstructions like buildings or power lines. For a "hazardous" removal I'd go with someone specializing in tree removals with maximum insurance etc..., not necessarily an "Arborist". Seems overkill to me and I'm sure most HO's. My understanding of what an Arborist does is they are very knowledgeable in pruning and keeping trees alive, not simply removing them. Seems to me you don't need to know squat about what makes them thrive, best soil etc.... to remove them. You just need cutting smarts, a good saw, some experience and a way to get the tree off the HO's property. I miss something?

All commercial tree work requires insurance,license to do business I'm not complaining about being underbid if they have it but if not they are stealing and the ho is an accomplice. I bid 5 trees once that the ho living in a 500 k home ended up using illegals with no gear the climbed barefoot and used machete to cut it down. Why should it matter? Because I pay dearly to be in my business and to provide service to customers who end up using untrained illegal's that are uninsured,unsafe and pay no tax. I feel the home owner in that instance should be charged with negligent homicide if the illegal who had no tie in fell to his death.

Now another thing that pisses us off is too many home owners automatically assume we are going to overcharge on easy jobs you mention. Quite to the contrary we will get them done faster and likely cheaper than bubba because we know how and have equipment necessary for our work. On this job I mentioned I was hurting and was being underbid all over town likely by these illegals, it stopped so I assume one may have died or my call to the city manager produced a result. Make no mistake, if bubba hurts himself on your property and has no insurance you could be found negligent then how much was saved? I was just about to give up and had my grapple listed for sale when the work began to come in. I have adjusted my rates to the economy and if I know your not wealthy have discounted work available during winter. I try to provide my customers the best solution to their tree needs but I should expect to profit and the cost of doing business is very high. If I rant about some bubba with no insurance stealing from my family mouth, I've paid for my right to do so!

 

[treemandan]

I can imagine!

I remember a fellow much like your self he called me out to look at a tree a bubba already bid for 300:00. It was just put it on the ground and leave lay. He did not ask what I would do it for he just said it was bid at 300 and if I could do it for that it was my job! I looked at it It was a big tree after looking I told him yeah I can do it for that. He asked when lol I said right now and he looked very happy. I get out the big shot and shoot the top and set rope. I asked where his septic was and he says no where near so I pull the bucket out and hook up the twenty ton winch get a pull and bring out the 395 xp. I put a money notch in it to miss his fruit trees and a few yard ornaments and fell it. After I rolled up rope and put my gear up he gets cranky and said if I knew it was that easy I would of done it myself. I smiled and polightly said well sir that is why you paid for me Btw; if he asked me what I would charge, It would of been my minimum. I was there 30 minutes, so; one hour just me and my bucket 150.00. bubba can't compete if you give a real tree service a chance.

Nice!

I was on a sub contract job today, I am still wound up. This guy did do some thinking, shame it wasn't the right kind. He was desribing big red oaks over houses by saying " get a few branches off and drop them"

Yeah , I might be overly tired and probably shouldn't have been involved with that BS but I came back with what I went out for plus I feel post orgasmic after pushing so hard to do what not to many other people could have done nor done it so well.

I told the guy I would not be helping him anymore. I was about to just leave when I got there and saw what the trees were and heard how much. He asked me how much I thought, I said a few K and he told me he had 1100. I told him he was fooling himself not only there but with his crappy knots.


I wasn't mean or anything, I just told him the truth. Done deal.

 

[treemandan]

OK numb nuts, I have done 11 trees and cleared out a half acre lot with a skid steer for that money. All competitive bids. I earn every penny that I make. I guess I did sound a little arrogant but it was only because your smug ass was trying to tell me that I shouldn't make more than you did setting behind a cushy desk. Guess what, I hustle more and work harder than you ever have.

I just love to listen when it starts with " Ok numb nuts"

Do it to it MD.

 

[roostersgt]

I don't blame you for turning down jobs that aren't right for your bottom line. Who could? I never got too hung up on who was paying taxes, who was licensed etc... The home owner taking risks with hiring those without insurance was not my concern. I was a journeyman lather and plasterer, a trade union member for a few years. The illegals undercut us so many times on the smaller jobs we thought we'd have to leave the state. They undercut us by more than half per hour, had no insurance, workers comp etc... and were likely here illegally. Many were probably the grand parents of the folks you see hanging around Home Depot and Lowes. Been there. It's like I keep telling my truck driving relatives. It doesn't matter you've been driving long hall for 30+ years, the load pays xxx per mile, period. Your years of experience, truck make and driving certificates are meaningless, unless specialized licenses are required for the type of load being hauled. Same goes for any service industry business. You want to make more money, you have to either expand, or get really specialized. The pay for a job is usually what the customer is willing to pay. Supply and demand. At least you guys are busy enough to pick and chose what you're willing to take.

 

[sgreanbeans]

Guys, your feeding a troll here! All this from someone who wants us to be in awe of his signature, isnt that a remington pole saw ya listed, HAH! Yeah, and Arborist are only good if ya need a prune, what a awesome display of ignorance.
:notrolls2:

 

[roostersgt]

Trolls don't have 280+ posts.You must be another guy with an over-inflated sense of self-worth. Only mentioned he check my signature to show I wasn't just a HO. I know a little about operating a saw and dropping trees. Suggest you read postings before popping off. Pole saw was used on one weekend to prune 30 pine trees at my cabin. You probably think I should have paid an Arborist to trim those dead low branches, huh? No need to buy the gas powered Stihl my dealer talked me out of. Would have sucked to have been storing it for years after its one time use/need.

 

[treemandan]

You make some good points Rooster. I understand when you say our skill level is meaningless... Well it is to some but not to me so it means whatever I say it means to me and act accordingly doing my best to pay no mind to that which cannot be productive to me.
I do know this: People can distinquish me between most others and its the price it is or it nothing. I will work with my clients but I will not play games in hopes of landing a job.


I think I only ever really underbid 1 job in twenty years.

 

[ropensaddle]

Nice!

I was on a sub contract job today, I am still wound up. This guy did do some thinking, shame it wasn't the right kind. He was desribing big red oaks over houses by saying " get a few branches off and drop them"

Yeah , I might be overly tired and probably shouldn't have been involved with that BS but I came back with what I went out for plus I feel post orgasmic after pushing so hard to do what not to many other people could have done nor done it so well.

I told the guy I would not be helping him anymore. I was about to just leave when I got there and saw what the trees were and heard how much. He asked me how much I thought, I said a few K and he told me he had 1100. I told him he was fooling himself not only there but with his crappy knots.


I wasn't mean or anything, I just told him the truth. Done deal.

The sub thing only works with true pros. I if about to work with another service am all ears, If I hear anything out of the norm and definitely anything unsafe Im gone with the wind. My bottom dollar per day is 750 but that is with bucket all my saws gear etc. Also I will coordinate but in no way are you going to tell me how I am going to take down a tree. In otherwords its my insurance,my truck and gear,my life so I have never had a problem telling someone bye or back off!

 

[mckeetree]

Guys, your feeding a troll here! All this from someone who wants us to be in awe of his signature, isnt that a remington pole saw ya listed, HAH! Yeah, and Arborist are only good if ya need a prune, what a awesome display of ignorance.
:notrolls2:

He is pretty trollish.

 

[STLfirewood]

The sub thing only works with true pros. I if about to work with another service am all ears, If I hear anything out of the norm and definitely anything unsafe Im gone with the wind. My bottom dollar per day is 750 but that is with bucket all my saws gear etc. Also I will coordinate but in no way are you going to tell me how I am going to take down a tree. In otherwords its my insurance,my truck and gear,my life so I have never had a problem telling someone bye or back off!

Truck? All I saw was a Kia lol. To bad your not up here this week I sold some good jobs at good prices. I could use some help. I'll get it knocked out though. Nothing to dangerous. I'll be able to get most of it with my Genie. Let me know when you want to see a real wood splitter I'll send you one of my super splitter to use. lol


Scott

 

[ropensaddle]

Truck? All I saw was a Kia lol. To bad your not up here this week I sold some good jobs at good prices. I could use some help. I'll get it knocked out though. Nothing to dangerous. I'll be able to get most of it with my Genie. Let me know when you want to see a real wood splitter I'll send you one of my super splitter to use. lol


Scott

Ahhh yes the kia lol, its charged out differently You remember ma boy ? He done went and moved to Alaska and got married lol. Hell send me a ss Ill try it loloke:

Im glad to hear ya got things going good I have been covered up all summer and start a twenty acre tornado project tuesday
it should be a week or more

 

[ropensaddle]

Ahhh yes the kia lol, its charged out differently You remember ma boy ? He done went and moved to Alaska and got married lol. Hell send me a ss Ill try it loloke:

Im glad to hear ya got things going good I have been covered up all summer and start a twenty acre tornado project tuesday
it should be a week or more

I will get paid to haul off 80 plus cords of oak

 

[nytreeman]

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:http://www.arboristsite.com/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

 

[TreeClimber57]

And that's why at the end of the day, you'll still be in business. Cleared easy money and on to the next job. Probably had a big day. Might have taken Bubba much longer. You're obviously more efficient.

Well as far as efficiency.. give him a break

Poor bubba only had a little green chain saw with 16" bar, no big bucket truck, no rope, no puller.. figured all the big shots were in DC and not out on jobs hurling weight bags into trees.. How is he going to compete against all that! uttahere2:

He likley had pegged as two or three day job :msp_ohmy:

 

[TreeClimber57]

There's no shame in losing a smallish "no skill" job to a part time hack who's trying to make it through tough times. I've been there and done that.

You see, in many areas there is more than enough work for most tree companies - at least most good ones at this time of year. Most are working their tails off.

Although the odd tree companies around here do get work requests .. quote on them same day .. and do work same or next. Well, many times that typically shows a bubba at work.. as they are obviously hungry for work.. and doing it for likely next to nothing.

So right now if many guys lose some jobs to bubba at this time of year; it really does not matter a whole lot.

What matters is that these guys are in many ways giving the profession a bad name, doing crap for work, leaving a mess behind and driving down the value of the jobs.

To go back to an earlier part of thread - when you hire a public school nurse -- the stitches on the wound isn’t quite as pretty -- and the would heals with a scar. That is the value in hiring the professional for a bit more money.

Not to mention the fact the professional likely has liability insurance and workers comp covered!!

Hiring a less than competent/professional company to do any job, roofing, carpentry or tree work.. is a disservice to the profession and should be discouraged. How does one measure competency or professionalism? Well it is how they treat their customer, how they run their business, how they abide by the federal and state laws, how they treat their employees, and finally how they do the work and what they leave behind. A competent tree worker will meet or exceed expectations of customer on every job and do it legally and safely.

 

[ropensaddle]

Ouch I think I chipped my one toof

 

[ropensaddle]

I got a call today about a tree that had been cut by the power company. Sensing the caller was price shopping I asked her how big and she said large pine. I told her clean-up would be 250 to 500 and she informed me she already had a bid at 150. I said well good luck and I hope they don't get injured , I'm really glad I didn't fall for a long drive out to look at it.