Underbidding $&^%%$!!!

[jefflovstrom]

21 people hours ![/QUOTE]

Too funny!
Jeff

 

[OrangeRidge]

Yeah , yeah ..... Could be either gender , I was bein' PC

 

[TreeClimber57]

Well thir I'm gonna use it for far wood

Well, you would not have any issue. In the mandatory forestry managment plan, there are always trees which need to come down for one reason or another. Part of forest management.

It is the ones with one or two acres or less.. and want to cut down some of their few trees. It is not intended to eliminate cutting, simply ensure idiots do not cut for the sake of simply not wanting a tree. And in the city it does make sense to a large degree, as the houses are sold from one owner to the next, over time there would not hardly be a house left with a tree if homeowners were allowed to cut anything they wanted to.

 

[TreeClimber57]

a reality check for some.

Really. When I was taught how to manage a business, I was under the impression that the amount charged was supposed to cover :
Insurance, telephone costs, vehicle maintenance, fuel, wages, taxes, any rental fees, loan fees if any, depreciation expenses and a small profit. (to name a few items - there are more)

Well.. if you truly ever ran a legitimate tree company and figured it out properly, you will find most of the guys in here are not too far adrift in their pricing. It is the ones who run illegally, do not pay their share to the government, have almost zero for equipment, no insurance and no workers comp that are creating the artificial perspective that a tree company can run for $100/hr (or less) and pay 3 men doing it. You see, regardless of what one is doing sizewise, there is a base hourly rate they do need to cover costs. I doubt these guys are becoming millionaires doing this.. in fact most tree companies (even at their outrageous rates) are not making huge dollars at end of the day.

Maybe you can enlighten us on how to purchase less costly equipment (which is just as good), lower our taxes or workers comp rates or insurance policies. Any useful information you have to lower our costs, I am sure most of us would be willing to pass along. Otherwise, if you have no idea on what a tree service is; what goes on behind the scenes and what it costs.. then please enlighten yourself before you go preaching to others telling us what we need to charge. I am sure there are lots of guys in here would share their costs with you personally if you have the skills and time to coach them to a lower cost base.

So.. in the end.. are they really charging too much!? Not according to what I learned in school. In fact the economy, and illegal workers out there have driven many of them to a level that is below where they should be textbook wise to run a proper business with their incurred costs.

 

[sgreanbeans]

Really. When I was taught how to manage a business, I was under the impression that the amount charged was supposed to cover :
Insurance, telephone costs, vehicle maintenance, fuel, wages, taxes, any rental fees, loan fees if any, depreciation expenses and a small profit. (to name a few items - there are more)

Well.. if you truly ever ran a legitimate tree company and figured it out properly, you will find most of the guys in here are not too far adrift in their pricing. It is the ones who run illegally, do not pay their share to the government, have almost zero for equipment, no insurance and no workers comp that are creating the artificial perspective that a tree company can run for $100/hr (or less) and pay 3 men doing it. You see, regardless of what one is doing sizewise, there is a base hourly rate they do need to cover costs. I doubt these guys are becoming millionaires doing this.. in fact most tree companies (even at their outrageous rates) are not making huge dollars at end of the day.

Maybe you can enlighten us on how to purchase less costly equipment (which is just as good), lower our taxes or workers comp rates or insurance policies. Any useful information you have to lower our costs, I am sure most of us would be willing to pass along. Otherwise, if you have no idea on what a tree service is; what goes on behind the scenes and what it costs.. then please enlighten yourself before you go preaching to others telling us what we need to charge. I am sure there are lots of guys in here would share their costs with you personally if you have the skills and time to coach them to a lower cost base.

So.. in the end.. are they really charging too much!? Not according to what I learned in school. In fact the economy, and illegal workers out there have driven many of them to a level that is below where they should be textbook wise to run a proper business with their incurred costs.

Very well said,

I motion to nominate TreeClimber57 as the official spokesperson for the anti-troll movement. Any time we get one, he can squash them.

 

[swyman]

Know a guy that is a township supervisor and was going to throw me a bone on a cemetary wind damage cleanup and let me see the other bids before I bid. I have a consultant that sometimes helps me with bidding that was in business for 20 years and has been out for 8. Said he would have bid it at around $5k. The 2 bids received were $2500, and $2100. The guy that is going to do the job is the groundskeeper that is doing it for the wood? There is a HUGE mess and all decent size stuff. He can have it!

 

[tree md]

That would be twice the price , or more , in Oz . 21 people hours ! I see what you
mean now :msp_ohmy:

I originally bid this job for $1400 and came down to $900 to match the other yo yo's quote. Ah well, the HO was very pleased and told me she would tell everyone about me. Said she was going to refer me to her sister in law who was needing work done. She also told me I should become a member of service magic. Said she normally gets all of her bids from service magic members and she would recommend me highly. If I get another job out of it it will have been worth it.

I doubt I will do the service magic thing. I am already as busy as I really want to be.

 

[mckeetree]

I originally bid this job for $1400 and came down to $900 to match the other yo yo's quote. Ah well, the HO was very pleased and told me she would tell everyone about me. Said she was going to refer me to her sister in law who was needing work done. She also told me I should become a member of service magic. Said she normally gets all of her bids from service magic members and she would recommend me highly. If I get another job out of it it will have been worth it.

I doubt I will do the service magic thing. I am already as busy as I really want to be.

I'm kinda like this with those kind of people...they are always going to refer you they claim for doing their job so cheap, and yeah, they usually do refer you...to another cheap SOB. That's the problem. And people that rely on service magic are only second in cheapness to tree service direct users which are the cheapest and most uninformed folks on Earth.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I'm kinda like this with those kind of people...they are always going to refer you they claim for doing their job so cheap, and yeah, they usually do refer you...to another cheap SOB. That's the problem. And people that rely on service magic are only second in cheapness to tree service direct users which are the cheapest and most uninformed folks on Earth.

Don't forget Angies List. What a scam.
Jeff

 

[ropensaddle]

Well, you would not have any issue. In the mandatory forestry managment plan, there are always trees which need to come down for one reason or another. Part of forest management.

It is the ones with one or two acres or less.. and want to cut down some of their few trees. It is not intended to eliminate cutting, simply ensure idiots do not cut for the sake of simply not wanting a tree. And in the city it does make sense to a large degree, as the houses are sold from one owner to the next, over time there would not hardly be a house left with a tree if homeowners were allowed to cut anything they wanted to.

I am about to cut my hickory and de lean my pine. I am letting them grow too close together according to timber plans because; I'm growing them for telephone poles as it pays better lol. Its funny, I don't need a forester to tell me how to make habitat just leave the mast trees and remove the hickory leave any fruit trees and cherry,blackgum open some area up for my wild blackberries. I harvest four deer per year if I want to!

 

[ropensaddle]

I'm kinda like this with those kind of people...they are always going to refer you they claim for doing their job so cheap, and yeah, they usually do refer you...to another cheap SOB. That's the problem. And people that rely on service magic are only second in cheapness to tree service direct users which are the cheapest and most uninformed folks on Earth.

Lol took me two calls to figure out service magic was magic for them only lol. I tried some stuff but now I hardly even advertize none of the full page bs just a listing!
I have had some success in the free newspaper not free for me but thrifty nickel and it mainly was stumps but it paid ok.

 

[mckeetree]

Don't forget Angies List. What a scam.
Jeff

Yep. Angies List. That's another collection of Bozos.

 

[roostersgt]

Let me guess... maybe I am all wet.

But buy a truck for $11K.

Spend oh maybe another $4 to 6K to get safety done.
Spend another $4K to get it to pass emission test.
Then another what $10-15K to get boom to pass inspection.

Are you telling me there are several trucks available that I would be able to drive home, get an e-test, safety and boom inspection done without spending a whole lot of extra cash? Maybe I am all wet.. but seems a bit unlikely to me. I have bought trucks for twice that and still had to pay another $6K to get on the road. Maybe just been unlucky.

Just telling you to look at the California Tree Equipment add at the top of this site. They have many trucks for sale. God knows Canada must have pretty weird property rights and mountains and mountains of regulations.

 

[mckeetree]

Just telling you to look at the California Tree Equipment add at the top of this site. They have many trucks for sale. God knows Canada must have pretty weird property rights and mountains and mountains of regulations.

You don't know enough about bucket trucks to try and talk about them.

 

[TreeClimber57]

Just telling you to look at the California Tree Equipment add at the top of this site. They have many trucks for sale. God knows Canada must have pretty weird property rights and mountains and mountains of regulations.

Not sure what this has to do with property rights. This is a commercial vehicle, and has to pass testing the same as any other commercial vehicle.

So.. must pass a safety each and every year (and before you can plate it first time). Truck I brought in from US needed new tires, additional reflectors. Other than that pretty good safety wise. Tires were a good chunk of cost. Also spark plugs.. one cylinder has a bit of oil blowing by.. but still was ok on test once plugs were new and regular changed. They also must meed Cdn regulations.. typically additional reflectors, daytime driving lights (not on some US vehicles apparently), etc. If the US counterpart did not have what the Cdn one did when originally sold, then it must be brought up to the original Cdn specs. (this hits automobiles and small truck more so than larger vehciles)

Also must pass emission test.. many states do not do e-tests so no way of owner knowing. In last truck case failed idle test (that particular stated does not do e-testing); it was a bad fuel pressure regulartor. Once fixed it was ok. You see.. not mountains of regulations, just ensuring the vehicles are up to the original standards as set out by original manafactuer. Nothing beyond that.

For boom.. needs to have several tests done annually (they are all done at same time but several tests).. now this is not required to license.
But if you miss this one workers comp will be all over you, same as in many states. But there are many guys who if working on their own with no workers comp simply skip this one. This is a boom integrity test, as well as electrical. Checks all welds under ultra-violet/x-ray .. does a computerized sound test of all components - listening via microphone and computer for improper sounds. Does weight test -- ensuring bucket can hold twice rated weight for one hour without any downward movement. Hydraulic pumps, hoses, pressure test, leak test, etc. And electrical testing for insulation of boom. Likely missed a lot here as I do not pretend to be an expert in this. Boom test is about $1k per year.. assuming all passes ok.

If boom fails test, it gets awfully expensive darn fast. I seriously doubt any truck for $10-11K is going pass a boom test.. period.

Fact remains.. if you are buying a bucket truck for 10-11K.. then it is comparable to buying a similar aged automobile for maybe $500. The major difference being; you are putting your life or one of your guys at risk every time it goes up sixty feet in the air.

Having said that.. all of the above is common practice in many states.. this is not unique to Canada. If you know much about heavy equipment, then I would suspect none of this is really new.

As for the California Tree Equipment.. did take a look. Pricing ranged from around $25K to $80K. Which is what I would expect them to be.. typically the lower cost ones are lower cost for a reason.. you do more to get them up to spec.. they have higher mileage, etc.. there is a reason tehy are lower cost. As for $11K.. if you could find one.. you would likely be in the $25K range at minimum by the time you got it on the road.

 

[TreeClimber57]

You don't know enough about bucket trucks to try and talk about them.

+1

 

[ropensaddle]

You don't know enough about bucket trucks to try and talk about them.

Lol there selling them cause they are junk lol. Mine is too but at least I know what I have it needs new cables, lower cylinder repacked, re chem glazed but I have worked with worse the cables are just getting old no frays but I don't like using them too long! It has a few other issues but none too scary yet. High rangers are fairly durable imo.

 

[ropensaddle]

Not sure what this has to do with property rights. This is a commercial vehicle, and has to pass testing the same as any other commercial vehicle.

So.. must pass a safety each and every year (and before you can plate it first time). Truck I brought in from US needed new tires, additional reflectors. Other than that pretty good safety wise. Tires were a good chunk of cost. Also spark plugs.. one cylinder has a bit of oil blowing by.. but still was ok on test once plugs were new and regular changed. They also must meed Cdn regulations.. typically additional reflectors, daytime driving lights (not on some US vehicles apparently), etc. If the US counterpart did not have what the Cdn one did when originally sold, then it must be brought up to the original Cdn specs. (this hits automobiles and small truck more so than larger vehciles)

Also must pass emission test.. many states do not do e-tests so no way of owner knowing. In last truck case failed idle test (that particular stated does not do e-testing); it was a bad fuel pressure regulartor. Once fixed it was ok. You see.. not mountains of regulations, just ensuring the vehicles are up to the original standards as set out by original manafactuer. Nothing beyond that.

For boom.. needs to have several tests done annually (they are all done at same time but several tests).. now this is not required to license.
But if you miss this one workers comp will be all over you, same as in many states. But there are many guys who if working on their own with no workers comp simply skip this one. This is a boom integrity test, as well as electrical. Checks all welds under ultra-violet/x-ray .. does a computerized sound test of all components - listening via microphone and computer for improper sounds. Does weight test -- ensuring bucket can hold twice rated weight for one hour without any downward movement. Hydraulic pumps, hoses, pressure test, leak test, etc. And electrical testing for insulation of boom. Likely missed a lot here as I do not pretend to be an expert in this. Boom test is about $1k per year.. assuming all passes ok.

If boom fails test, it gets awfully expensive darn fast. I seriously doubt any truck for $10-11K is going pass a boom test.. period.

Fact remains.. if you are buying a bucket truck for 10-11K.. then it is comparable to buying a similar aged automobile for maybe $500. The major difference being; you are putting your life or one of your guys at risk every time it goes up sixty feet in the air.

Having said that.. all of the above is common practice in many states.. this is not unique to Canada. If you know much about heavy equipment, then I would suspect none of this is really new.

As for the California Tree Equipment.. did take a look. Pricing ranged from around $25K to $80K. Which is what I would expect them to be.. typically the lower cost ones are lower cost for a reason.. you do more to get them up to spec.. they have higher mileage, etc.. there is a reason tehy are lower cost. As for $11K.. if you could find one.. you would likely be in the $25K range at minimum by the time you got it on the road.

I have done hy pot testing for electrical but I witnessed the weight test and to be honest I don't want them doing that to my boom I don't do anything putting that much stress on my boom and I don't want them too either. Its ridiculous I was more fearful after their test than before it!

 

[roostersgt]

Not sure what this has to do with property rights. This is a commercial vehicle, and has to pass testing the same as any other commercial vehicle.

So.. must pass a safety each and every year (and before you can plate it first time). Truck I brought in from US needed new tires, additional reflectors. Other than that pretty good safety wise. Tires were a good chunk of cost. Also spark plugs.. one cylinder has a bit of oil blowing by.. but still was ok on test once plugs were new and regular changed. They also must meed Cdn regulations.. typically additional reflectors, daytime driving lights (not on some US vehicles apparently), etc. If the US counterpart did not have what the Cdn one did when originally sold, then it must be brought up to the original Cdn specs. (this hits automobiles and small truck more so than larger vehciles)

Also must pass emission test.. many states do not do e-tests so no way of owner knowing. In last truck case failed idle test (that particular stated does not do e-testing); it was a bad fuel pressure regulartor. Once fixed it was ok. You see.. not mountains of regulations, just ensuring the vehicles are up to the original standards as set out by original manafactuer. Nothing beyond that.

For boom.. needs to have several tests done annually (they are all done at same time but several tests).. now this is not required to license.
But if you miss this one workers comp will be all over you, same as in many states. But there are many guys who if working on their own with no workers comp simply skip this one. This is a boom integrity test, as well as electrical. Checks all welds under ultra-violet/x-ray .. does a computerized sound test of all components - listening via microphone and computer for improper sounds. Does weight test -- ensuring bucket can hold twice rated weight for one hour without any downward movement. Hydraulic pumps, hoses, pressure test, leak test, etc. And electrical testing for insulation of boom. Likely missed a lot here as I do not pretend to be an expert in this. Boom test is about $1k per year.. assuming all passes ok.

If boom fails test, it gets awfully expensive darn fast. I seriously doubt any truck for $10-11K is going pass a boom test.. period.

Fact remains.. if you are buying a bucket truck for 10-11K.. then it is comparable to buying a similar aged automobile for maybe $500. The major difference being; you are putting your life or one of your guys at risk every time it goes up sixty feet in the air.

Having said that.. all of the above is common practice in many states.. this is not unique to Canada. If you know much about heavy equipment, then I would suspect none of this is really new.

As for the California Tree Equipment.. did take a look. Pricing ranged from around $25K to $80K. Which is what I would expect them to be.. typically the lower cost ones are lower cost for a reason.. you do more to get them up to spec.. they have higher mileage, etc.. there is a reason tehy are lower cost. As for $11K.. if you could find one.. you would likely be in the $25K range at minimum by the time you got it on the road.

I suggest you look again. They have about a dozen or so priced from $11k - $15k. Probably cost a couple thousand to refurbish the hydraulics etc... They're used after all. Don't know what must be done to use them commercially in Canada. Add says they run and are currently registered, some in California, some in Oregon. That's about all you need in the states, that and a business license. As I said earlier, anyone can rent these things. No special license is needed. As far as not knowing anything about bucket trucks, please tell me what's so special about them, the freaking lever that operates the bucket??? They drive any different than any other 6 -8 ton truck??? Get serious. You don't need a lot of training to operate one, just some common sense and an understanding of gravity.

My statement about Canadian private property rights is in response to all the permits and city blessings one is reportedly supposed to get to cut trees on their own property. I can cut any tree on my property without asking anyones permission. They're my trees. Same goes for other citizens trees.

 

[TreeClimber57]

I suggest you look again. They have about a dozen or so priced from $11k - $15k.

You are looking under Forestry Bucket Trucks I trust.



As in here: USED FORESTRY BUCKET TRUCKS IN CALIFORNIA



And I trust you do know the difference between a forestry truck and utility one.. Utility trucks are a dime a dozen.