Underbidding $&^%%$!!!

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You see, in many areas there is more than enough work for most tree companies - at least most good ones at this time of year. Most are working their tails off.

Although the odd tree companies around here do get work requests .. quote on them same day .. and do work same or next. Well, many times that typically shows a bubba at work.. as they are obviously hungry for work.. and doing it for likely next to nothing.

So right now if many guys lose some jobs to bubba at this time of year; it really does not matter a whole lot.

What matters is that these guys are in many ways giving the profession a bad name, doing crap for work, leaving a mess behind and driving down the value of the jobs.

To go back to an earlier part of thread - when you hire a public school nurse -- the stitches on the wound isn’t quite as pretty -- and the would heals with a scar. That is the value in hiring the professional for a bit more money.

Not to mention the fact the professional likely has liability insurance and workers comp covered!!

Hiring a less than competent/professional company to do any job, roofing, carpentry or tree work.. is a disservice to the profession and should be discouraged. How does one measure competency or professionalism? Well it is how they treat their customer, how they run their business, how they abide by the federal and state laws, how they treat their employees, and finally how they do the work and what they leave behind. A competent tree worker will meet or exceed expectations of customer on every job and do it legally and safely.

That is a pretty good post,57. Still, I think it is a regional thing. We have competition but 75% of the time, we bid apples to apples.
SoCal is in the early stages of compliance. You drive thru a city with signs that say 'Tree City', bull.
It is getting common place to only accept bids with cert. arb's and now TCIA Accredited and to be that you need to be a CTSP.
Like I said, regional.
We sent a couple of guy's to Alabama to help a good friend of the owner. Sent two good climbers and I told them to send me pics, and they did.
They had pics that I would not post, Mike said," those guys never heard of PPE" .
Anyway, it is who you market to and how you market.
Now I am hungry from saying market, bye.
Jeff (and only two beers!) :msp_w00t:
 
That is a pretty good post,57. Still, I think it is a regional thing. We have competition but 75% of the time, we bid apples to apples.
SoCal is in the early stages of compliance. You drive thru a city with signs that say 'Tree City', bull.
It is getting common place to only accept bids with cert. arb's and now TCIA Accredited and to be that you need to be a CTSP.
Like I said, regional.
We sent a couple of guy's to Alabama to help a good friend of the owner. Sent two good climbers and I told them to send me pics, and they did.
They had pics that I would not post, Mike said," those guys never heard of PPE" .
Anyway, it is who you market to and how you market.
Now I am hungry from saying market, bye.
Jeff (and only two beers!) :msp_w00t:

Well why wasn't your azz on a plane to tell bubba to put on his ppe?:)
 
That is a pretty good post,57. Still, I think it is a regional thing. We have competition but 75% of the time, we bid apples to apples.
SoCal is in the early stages of compliance. You drive thru a city with signs that say 'Tree City', bull.
It is getting common place to only accept bids with cert. arb's and now TCIA Accredited and to be that you need to be a CTSP.
Like I said, regional.
We sent a couple of guy's to Alabama to help a good friend of the owner. Sent two good climbers and I told them to send me pics, and they did.
They had pics that I would not post, Mike said," those guys never heard of PPE" .
Anyway, it is who you market to and how you market.
Now I am hungry from saying market, bye.
Jeff (and only two beers!) :msp_w00t:

You are correct Jeff, it is regional.

We too are moving that way, and although the bylaws are in place in some areas we do not yet have full compliance.

Although depending on region fines range from $1,000 per tree up to as high as $10,000 per tree cut without permit in some areas. And to cut a healthy tree requires a CA to fill out paperwork - not hiring a bubba for that.

Frankly sometimes they can go too far in legislation, but does put the work out of reach of bubba at that point.
 
You are correct Jeff, it is regional.

We too are moving that way, and although the bylaws are in place in some areas we do not yet have full compliance.

Although depending on region fines range from $1,000 per tree up to as high as $10,000 per tree cut without permit in some areas. And to cut a healthy tree requires a CA to fill out paperwork - not hiring a bubba for that.

Frankly sometimes they can go too far in legislation, but does put the work out of reach of bubba at that point.

I so wish we had just even a little of that, open season here. I did however, get one of the cities to only hire CA's for contract work!

Rooster- I did read all your post, just cause you have ex amount of post, that does not mean anything, still a troll. The way I see it, if your so dead set on defending these guys, have your saw list, Remington and all, you are obviously one of them. Would love to see those finish cuts. It kills me when you guys get on here and say all this BS, then wonder why we jump on it, you are, after all, on ArboristSite, I dunno, could be a clue, but ignorance IS bliss
 
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I so wish we had just even a little of that, open season here. I did however, get one of the cities to only hire CA's for contract work!

Well, according to the bylaws.. if it is a healthy tree. The homeowner can cut the tree themselves, as long as they have a CA do the work up front. Homeowner needs permit, but to obtain permit requires a CA to fill in the blanks. Some municipalities are beginning to understand the value of trees, and the need to have qualified professionals involved. Even if some homeowners are .. well frankly.. clueless in this area and could care less.

Sometimes it is too far maybe.. but it is because of bubbas crap to a large degree that drives them in this direction. You see - it is difficult to get bubba to follow rules and get legitimate. But it is possible to fine the homeowner (or business) if they cut or cause harm to a tree without proper professional consultation. (they can also fine you intentionally for causing damage to a tree if they wish to do so)

But if homeowners would simply quit hiring bubba to do the work in the first place, then these rules would not need to be put in place. It is the simplistic attitude of some homeowners that will eventually bring many or most areas to this level of legislation.
 
Well, according to the bylaws.. if it is a healthy tree. The homeowner can cut the tree themselves, as long as they have a CA do the work up front. Homeowner needs permit, but to obtain permit requires a CA to fill in the blanks. Some municipalities are beginning to understand the value of trees, and the need to have qualified professionals involved. Even if some homeowners are .. well frankly.. clueless in this area and could care less.

Sometimes it is too far maybe.. but it is because of bubbas crap to a large degree that drives them in this direction. You see - it is difficult to get bubba to follow rules and get legitimate. But it is possible to fine the homeowner (or business) if they cut or cause harm to a tree without proper professional consultation. (they can also fine you intentionally for causing damage to a tree if they wish to do so)

But if homeowners would simply quit hiring bubba to do the work in the first place, then these rules would not need to be put in place. It is the simplistic attitude of some homeowners that will eventually bring many or most areas to this level of legislation.

Hmmmmmm yup dat too far lol, I have 40 acres and I don't need no one to tell me when and especially if I can cut a tree. I could get it for municipalities or public works etc. I understand its need and I would definitely be taking the test but this is the land of the free and anything jeopardizing that is not something I plan to support even if it would mean profits for myself.
 
Hmmmmmm yup dat too far lol, I have 40 acres and I don't need no one to tell me when and especially if I can cut a tree. I could get it for municipalities or public works etc. I understand its need and I would definitely be taking the test but this is the land of the free and anything jeopardizing that is not something I plan to support even if it would mean profits for myself.

Ah 40 acres !! Now you need a forestry management plan.. and that needs to be redone at your cost minimum of every 5 years. With work detailed in plan completed (at your cost I might add)..

Yep.. &*&#@ who support bubbas drive this. If they would wake up and simply hire professional, legitimate tree companies it would not get to this.
If people would wake up, and hire the proper people to do the job, then they may not find themselves under tight controls. But because they continue with the simplistic mentality that they hire the lowest cost they can find.. they find themselves in his mess. And ultimately it not only forces them to hire legitimate tree companies, but to hire them at an even higher cost then they paid before. Because now the companies all need to have CA's and in some cases TCIA accreditation in place. Who pays for this.. the end users do.

Also.. the municipalities can go around and order you to take a tree down if deemed dangerous. At your cost. In fact close by, we are just entering into where homeowners are being ordered to take down ash trees to control the emerald ash borer.

But how do the homeowners find them.. as bubbas hide as legitimate companies as well.. thin cover but fools many homeowners.
 
Ah 40 acres !! Now you need a forestry management plan.. and that needs to be redone at your cost minimum of every 5 years. With work detailed in plan completed (at your cost I might add)..

Yep.. &*&#@ who support bubbas drive this. If they would wake up and simply hire professional, legitimate tree companies it would not get to this.
If people would wake up, and hire the proper people to do the job, then they may not find themselves under tight controls. But because they continue with the simplistic mentality that they hire the lowest cost they can find.. they find themselves in his mess. And ultimately it not only forces them to hire legitimate tree companies, but to hire them at an even higher cost then they paid before. Because now the companies all need to have CA's and in some cases TCIA accreditation in place. Who pays for this.. the end users do.

Also.. the municipalities can go around and order you to take a tree down if deemed dangerous. At your cost. In fact close by, we are just entering into where homeowners are being ordered to take down ash trees to control the emerald ash borer.

But how do the homeowners find them.. as bubbas hide as legitimate companies as well.. thin cover but fools many homeowners.
The day some bureaucrat shows up telling me I can't cut my trees on my 40 acres that I pay taxes on, will be the day he better watch him step:)
 
Im not a bubba. Ive never charged anyone a cent to drop a tee or split wood. I help my neighbors and family for free. Permits only needed for heritage oak removal. Certifications are not needed for tree removal. The tree is being removed, not prune or nurtured. You have some special chainsaw or wood cutting certification?
 
Certifications are not needed for tree removal. The tree is being removed, not prune or nurtured.

It may not be a need where you are; yet. But it is in many areas. The primary reason is they municipalities do NOT want anybody simply going around cutting down every tree that is standing. So.. they force you to get permits. And if tree is healthy, then you likley are not getting one.

There are exceptions.
a) if you have a previously approved building permit - and tree needs to come down to erect building
b) tree is in some way a hazard - but CA is needed to determine that (or for hazard a city official can also do)
c) tree is damaged (still healthy otherwise but has damage - CA needs to access and determine if removal is necessary - but if you caused damage an did it intentionally - you can be fined
d) in cases as just implemented in Toronto - Ash trees do not need permits - for time being a temporary exception

The city leaders would ask, who are you? And what qualifications do you have to determine if the tree should be removed? And saying " it is only being removed.. not pruned or nutured" is not going to cut it. Because they want to know WHY it needs to be removed.. and it had better be a better reason than simply that you don't want it there any longer.
 
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and anyone with $11K can buy a used bucket truck. They have several available.


Let me guess... maybe I am all wet.

But buy a truck for $11K.

Spend oh maybe another $4 to 6K to get safety done.
Spend another $4K to get it to pass emission test.
Then another what $10-15K to get boom to pass inspection.

Are you telling me there are several trucks available that I would be able to drive home, get an e-test, safety and boom inspection done without spending a whole lot of extra cash? Maybe I am all wet.. but seems a bit unlikely to me. I have bought trucks for twice that and still had to pay another $6K to get on the road. Maybe just been unlucky.
 
Actually, every tree was on the side of a mountain that backed up to the house. My lowering zone was a 5' embankment held up by a brick retainer wall. As I said earlier, I figured I was going to have to lower every piece to keep the logs from rolling off the retainer wall and onto the house. I lowered all the brush and made a barrier for the logs and bombed chunks instead of blocking them down. All trees had to be cut up and dragged up the side of the mountain 100' or so and stacked out of sight.

Took myself and 2 ground hands 7 hours.
 
It may not be a need where you are; yet. But it is in many areas. The primary reason is they municipalities do NOT want anybody simply going around cutting down every tree that is standing. So.. they force you to get permits. And if tree is healthy, then you likley are not getting one.

There are exceptions.
a) if you have a previously approved building permit - and tree needs to come down to erect building
b) tree is in some way a hazard - but CA is needed to determine that (or for hazard a city official can also do)
c) tree is damaged (still healthy otherwise but has damage - CA needs to access and determine if removal is necessary - but if you caused damage an did it intentionally - you can be fined
d) in cases as just implemented in Toronto - Ash trees do not need permits - for time being a temporary exception

The city leaders would ask, who are you? And what qualifications do you have to determine if the tree should be removed? And saying " it is only being removed.. not pruned or nutured" is not going to cut it. Because they want to know WHY it needs to be removed.. and it had better be a better reason than simply that you don't want it there any longer.

Well thir I'm gonna use it for far wood:)
 

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