Underbidding $&^%%$!!!

[TreeClimber57]

in response to all the permits and city blessings one is reportedly supposed to get to cut trees on their own property. I can cut any tree on my property without asking anyones permission. They're my trees. Same goes for other citizens trees.

Hey, this is not just Canadian. There are a lot of US areas which are going same way. And it is all (or for the most part) caused by folks who think they can cut when and where they want.

Now.. this is whole other discussion.. and I am not a lawyer. But do you really own the trees on your property? Or does the government simply not make an issue of it when you cut them. If so.. what are forestry rights. What about mineral rights. Or water rights. I am not certain either way, and for small property nobody makes much of an issue. But who really owns the resources on the land? And trees are natural resources.

Again I am not a lawyer; nor are many in here; so do not really expect an answer to above.

But think about it when you say the government has no right to control what you do to your property or trees on it. They may just surprise you one day. For now they are letting you get away with it.. some cities in the US are not quite so tolerant.

 

[TreeClimber57]

I have done hy pot testing for electrical but I witnessed the weight test and to be honest I don't want them doing that to my boom I don't do anything putting that much stress on my boom and I don't want them too either. Its ridiculous I was more fearful after their test than before it!

It is supposed to be the same test they do when truck/boom is new before it leaves factory. The truck/boom is supposed to be built to take what they do to it; assuming they are following the book on their testing. The booms actually will and are designed to handle a lot more then they rated working loads, they are simply testing as per factory testing and ensuring it is up to what it was originally designed to take.

 

[mckeetree]

Probably cost a couple thousand to refurbish the hydraulics etc...

Stop while you are ahead. You are making an assclown of yourself.

 

[tree md]

Stop while you are ahead. You are making an assclown of yourself.

No, by all means continue... I'm sure all of the seasoned treemen on this site are in awe of your business insight and knowledge of our business... I know I am. Please continue to share your knowledge and experience with us here in the pro forum... I am continually impressed with your words of wisdom...

 

[TreeClimber57]

Probably cost a couple thousand to refurbish the hydraulics etc...

Hmm.. should really say simply .. no comment here.

Obvious you have never worked on or bought anything hydraulic. Depending on what they find, a couple of thousand might not cover the labor on the repair job. When it comes to hydraulics, nothing is low cost. Figure out what you think it might be or should be for cost.. multiply it times 5 or maybe 10.. and you may be close.

 

[roostersgt]

The only reason I mentioned the cost of buying a bucket truck (utility was what I referenced, not forestry) was because someone mentioned all their costs associated with their business and how they have to bid to cover those costs. My point was it simply doesn't appear to be all that expensive to buy a bucket truck, saws, chipper, stump grinder etc... Maintaining them, if they're bought new shouldn't be all that much either. The whole thread here is about you "certified" tree guys being underbid by folks you deem unworthy. Lot of whiners here and more keep showing up and jumping on the "let's bash the rooster" team. I'm sure everyone here bashes "handymen" also. You simply don't need a certified electrician, plumber, dry wall hanger etc... to get the job done. As I stated before, you don't need to pay for a brain surgeon if you only have a schoolyard boo boo needing treatment. Most removals in my area are for 40' "yard" trees, not dangerous "hazard" trees that some of you are proud to have removed.

My business savvy permitted me to retire comfortably at 47. I'll let that speak for itself. I have not told anyone how to run their business, or what to charge. I just suggested they quit whining about losing the small jobs to others who are trying to make ends meet. Some of you don't think anyone is qualified to cut down a tree. Wise up folks. A lot of people have been trimming trees and cutting them down since long before most of you got "certified". Want to learn how to prune properly? Go to the library, internet or nursery. It isn't that difficult. I've pruned a lot of fruit and nut trees in my day. Some of you have such poor business models that you need to make $700 per day just to stay afloat. That's $14,000 per month. You guys must have an awful lot of equipment, or you paid way way too much for it. Most tree laborer help in California, one of the most expensive places to live in the US, only make around $10 per hour.

FYI, in California your property is listed on your deed. Any restrictions, such as mineral rights, are listed. Outside of living in a HOA, nobody in any government office can prevent you from doing anything to your land, as long as it is being done within the parameters of what the land is zoned for. I don't think many of us yanks would tolerate our personal property rights being taken from us.

 

[TreeClimber57]

\Most removals in my area are for 40' "yard" trees, not dangerous "hazard" trees that some of you are proud to have removed.

For what it is worth, I try to not do small removals. Not saying I have not done any, but I typically do not go out of way to bid on them. I have had some people (many times friends) ask for price; and frankly I hate to do it. I have seen trees that I really hate to tell the person $300 to cut it down, and know on the other side it is not worth me having truck show up for anything less. Frankly for the small half hour or one hour jobs, I would rather somebody else do them.

\I don't think many of us yanks would tolerate our personal property rights being taken from us.

Talk to Jeff. He is around. He is also in California. And I do think there are tree restrictions where he is located. They do exist in the US!! In fact Canada has copied most of their rules from US counterparts. Most of our politicians are not smart enough to think up this on their own.

 

[mckeetree]

The only reason I mentioned the cost of buying a bucket truck (utility was what I referenced, not forestry) was because someone mentioned all their costs associated with their business and how they have to bid to cover those costs. My point was it simply doesn't appear to be all that expensive to buy a bucket truck, saws, chipper, stump grinder etc... Maintaining them, if they're bought new shouldn't be all that much either. The whole thread here is about you "certified" tree guys being underbid by folks you deem unworthy. Lot of whiners here and more keep showing up and jumping on the "let's bash the rooster" team. I'm sure everyone here bashes "handymen" also. You simply don't need a certified electrician, plumber, dry wall hanger etc... to get the job done. As I stated before, you don't need to pay for a brain surgeon if you only have a schoolyard boo boo needing treatment. Most removals in my area are for 40' "yard" trees, not dangerous "hazard" trees that some of you are proud to have removed.

My business savvy permitted me to retire comfortably at 47. I'll let that speak for itself. I have not told anyone how to run their business, or what to charge. I just suggested they quit whining about losing the small jobs to others who are trying to make ends meet. Some of you don't think anyone is qualified to cut down a tree. Wise up folks. A lot of people have been trimming trees and cutting them down since long before most of you got "certified". Want to learn how to prune properly? Go to the library, internet or nursery. It isn't that difficult. I've pruned a lot of fruit and nut trees in my day. Some of you have such poor business models that you need to make $700 per day just to stay afloat. That's $14,000 per month. You guys must have an awful lot of equipment, or you paid way way too much for it. Most tree laborer help in California, one of the most expensive places to live in the US, only make around $10 per hour.

FYI, in California your property is listed on your deed. Any restrictions, such as mineral rights, are listed. Outside of living in a HOA, nobody in any government office can prevent you from doing anything to your land, as long as it is being done within the parameters of what the land is zoned for. I don't think many of us yanks would tolerate our personal property rights being taken from us.

I think that cements it. Rooster is a troll at best. He couldn't believe his own BS even if he tried. He just tries to stir folks up with his crap.

 

[roostersgt]

You're kind of making my point for me. You're big enough and specialized enough that the average guy with a chain saw and truck is not going to bid on the jobs you are equipped to handle. It wouldn't be worth your time to set up for a drop and chip of a single simple tree. You can't waste your crews time on something that small. I get that. I'm guessing the guys whining about losing those jobs are bidding too high on the yard tree removals by Bubbas in pick-ups, who don't have a crew or overhead.

I own properties in 3 different counties in California and none have any "tree" restrictions. I'm sure there are some local ordinances in some cities, especially for properties in "touristy" areas, regarding what type of tree may be planted, or removed. Carmel, Monterey and San Diego come to mind.

 

[roostersgt]

I think that cements it. Rooster is a troll at best. He couldn't believe his own BS even if he tried. He just tries to stir folks up with his crap.

You are one hard-headed Texan. What BS would you be referring to? Not trying to intentionally stir anything up. I'm just pointing out that some of you are very arrogant and unaware, or unwilling to accept that the economy has forced others to underbid you in your line of work. Reality check time. You can either lower your prices to compete or not bid on those small jobs. You just don't want to hear it.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

I just can't believe you guys have wasted some 10 pages trying to convince this idiot. He doesn't have a clue and never will. His mind is already made up, don't confuse him with the facts. I suggest not responding to trolls like him. If we all ignore him, maybe he will leave this forum as well.
Rick

 

[TreEmergencyB]

Id love to start my own but im not going out there with a pick up and a saw just not professional to start the way i want i need around 30k-50k and thats no bucket truck or crane, overhead is very high in tree work in PA we need to be covered for 1mil plus in liability insurance usually with a 1g deductible underbidding kills me to and im an employee

 

[ropensaddle]

It is supposed to be the same test they do when truck/boom is new before it leaves factory. The truck/boom is supposed to be built to take what they do to it; assuming they are following the book on their testing. The booms actually will and are designed to handle a lot more then they rated working loads, they are simply testing as per factory testing and ensuring it is up to what it was originally designed to take.

Oh I know all that friend what I'm saying is, every time they put that much stress on it it will weaken it! If you have not seen the test you just can't imagine. I understand it is supposed to tell if the fiber is giving way but its bound too with their tests. I would not put that kind of load on my boom ever!

 

[jefflovstrom]

Hey Rooster, You should fact check your answer's. Ever heard of a Torrey pine or a Blue Heron? I am gonna go back and read a few more post and probably respond.
Jeff

 

[roostersgt]

What's your point? A rare tree that only grows in San Diego? So what?

 

[jefflovstrom]

What's your point? A rare tree that only grows in San Diego? So what?

Guess that my point comes from a professional background in this industry and you come off as a know it all. I got a lady in Point Loma that has a Blue Heron in her tree and it leaves really nasty messes in her yard ( they regurgitate), and on top of that she needs to have the tree dead wooded over her house. No way! Can't touch that tree and it is on her property, or she will get a massive fine.
I have been to court and dealt with Fish and Game, etc,,you are not being factual in your own egotistical reply.
Jeff

 

[roostersgt]

Guess that my point comes from a professional background in this industry and you come off as a know it all. I got a lady in Point Loma that has a Blue Heron in her tree and it leaves really nasty messes in her yard ( they regurgitate), and on top of that she needs to have the tree dead wooded over her house. No way! Can't touch that tree and it is on her property, or she will get a massive fine.
I have been to court and dealt with Fish and Game, etc,,you are not being factual in your own egotistical reply.
Jeff

Never claimed to know about the few rare trees you can't cut down without a permit. Heritage Oaks are the only ones you have to get a permit for in Northern Cali. Previous tree guy was saying the government had to approve most, if not all tree removals. I merely stated that is not the case in the US. Rare trees are few and far between. That's why they're called "rare" and why a permit must be obtained. A Bubba gets sued, or fined for sawing down one of them trees, why should you care?

 

[tree md]

Really, the point is you have stumbled into the professional forum where no one is impressed with your rebuilt 290's and Remington pole pruner (laughable really). And no one cares what your business was before or when you retired. Your not going to tell anyone in here how to run their business or what to charge. You have no clue and that is glaringly apparent to anyone who makes a living in this industry. You are in fact a laughing stock here... Now run along to the chainsaw forum and impress those guys with your prowess at fixing old farm boss chainsaws...

 

[jefflovstrom]

Never claimed to know about the few rare trees you can't cut down without a permit. Heritage Oaks are the only ones you have to get a permit for in Northern Cali. Previous tree guy was saying the government had to approve most, if not all tree removals. I merely stated that is not the case in the US. Rare trees are few and far between. That's why they're called "rare" and why a permit must be obtained. A Bubba gets sued, or fined for sawing down one of them trees, why should you care?

I am am tired of you, idiot! Sometimes it is not the tree but what lives in the tree. I am a professional and you sound like a hack or troll or both! You are now on 'ignore!'.
Jeff

 

[roostersgt]

Not trying to impress some of the whining sniveling and arrogant tree guys here, just trying to get them to stop and realize that others (non-certified) are trying to make a living too. Some of you are the most arrogant and elitist people I've ever interacted with. I've had to choke back tears of laughter at the over-inflated sense of self-worth some of you have of yourself and occupation. It's off the hook. Nothing wrong with taking pride in what you do, but good grief, it's tree work! Some of you think you're so special and the job so difficult nobody but you with your certification can do it. Maybe so, for thr truly involved jobs, but the Bubbas out there are not doing those ones.

Read the dang thread title.

Been to court and dealt with fish and game huh? Guess you didn't know much about your profession and got into some trouble with the law. Plus, you resorted to name calling BS just like a few others. Sad.