Unionizing?

[NYWoodsman]

Unions are good. Strength in numbers, otherwise you just have to be willing to accept what company owners give you. You end up going from job to job risking everything with health insurance gaps and still not getting paid. Just look at what the trades earn in NY City.

 

[Bwildered]

Unions are good. Strength in numbers, otherwise you just have to be willing to accept what company owners give you. You end up going from job to job risking everything with health insurance gaps and still not getting paid. Just look at what the trades earn in NY City.

What do they earn?

 

[NYWoodsman]

What do they earn?

Local 3 and IBEW electricians make 60 dollars plus an hr with great ins and pension. Even hotel workers(Maids) make 100kyr.
Construction, plumbers all about the same. Fireman, cops sanitation retire at 100k a year.

 

[Husky Man]

Local 3 and IBEW electricians make 60 dollars plus an hr with great ins and pension. Even hotel workers(Maids) make 100kyr.
Construction, plumbers all about the same. Fireman, cops sanitation retire at 100k a year.

You NEED to make $100,000/year in NYC, the price of real estate, and the cost of living are ridiculous

It is a viscous circle, increase wages, the cost of everything goes up, so the workers want another wage increase to offset the prices of goods going up, wages go up (Maybe) prices go up again, and so do any taxes on Income, the wages may go up, but spending power goes Down

Uncle Sam sure Smiles on April 15th though

Doug

 

[Bwildered]

You NEED to make $100,000/year in NYC, the price of real estate, and the cost of living are ridiculous

It is a viscous circle, increase wages, the cost of everything goes up, so the workers want another wage increase to offset the prices of goods going up, wages go up (Maybe) prices go up again, and so do any taxes on Income, the wages may go up, but spending power goes Down

Uncle Sam sure Smiles on April 15th though

Doug

And without their unions they would get screwed down & down , it is a viscous circle, greedy sociopathic types create the need for unions, right now they are shiteing their pants worried about major civil unrest in the US, the clever ones aren't even in your country at the moment, they are living the dream in New Zealand ,Tahiti, Australia during the covid pandemic, safe as houses

 

[northmanlogging]

Vicious... just saying, a viscous circle is something entirely different lol

you folks are hinting at my major dislike of unions, union wages go up, no one elses does, but price of homes and goods goes up because the union folks can afford it... leaving the rest of us out in the rain.

 

[catbuster]

The UA (Plumbers, Pipefitters & HVAC) paid for most of what I had up until I started working. I say the UA did because my dad made close to double what scabs did. I’ve worked for non-union outfits and even the best of them aren’t as productive as a mid-tier outfit that employs out of the halls.

As a business owner, when I was working the gas fields up in PA & NY, I was happy to bring guys in from IUOE, UA, IBEW & Carpenters/Millwrights locals. You know why? I didn’t have to train them. That’s a big deal. I don’t have to pay somebody to learn. I could add & subtract workforce as needed. What I got in return was an already skilled group that worked safe and were as productive in an eight hour day as the equivalent crew I had in KY did in ten. There was no cowboy ******** they’d try, my equipment was taken care of and the jobs were easier to manage.

If you guys don’t think most owners are trying to **** you, you’re terribly mistaken. And if you think you, as an individual, have any bargaining power, they’ll laugh you right out of the office.

Non-union closed shops paying union wages on public projects is called scale pay and when I was building highways we had guys who would specifically request to go do scale jobs. Even if it meant they went from running a D8 to go drive a haul truck. I fail to see that as a negative, the labor gets a better deal, even if they’re not part of the union.

Now, I can’t comment on the experience of being a union member. I worked construction for two small outfits (like max 10 employees) in a red state where unions were on the decline, and I was going to college anyway. After college I worked as a field engineer & superintendent before going out on my own.

 

[Jhenderson]

And there’s the union mentality at its finest. “ even if they went from running a D8 to driving a haul truck” . What a kick in the —-, huh? Imagine that, doing what’s needed in exchange for a days pay. How valiant of them.

 

[catbuster]

Left out one of my favorite anecdotes I’ve been a fan of for a long time.

Anybody ever heard of Testa Corp, Dismantling & Site Contractors? They were the powerhouse demolition outfit in the northeast for a while. Ran out of the Boston area, made their name as one of the primary subs doing demolition and excavating for the “Big Dig” I-95 reroute, wrecked out most of Ground Zero, old Yankee Stadium, a couple GM plants, dozens of bridges and other big, heavy things from Maine out into the Rust Belt. They had a fleet of Komatsu PC1250s, 1100s, a few 1000s, a bunch of 330-385 Cats, wheel loaders, yada.

Ol’ boy Steve Testa had a nasty habit of not liking to pay fringe benefits. So, while wrecking out a Ford plant in Wixom Michigan early last decade, almost every hall that ever sent Testa labor sued Testa Corp for unpaid fringes. Now, most people who don’t work out of a local probably won’t ever see fringes, but they’re pretty nice to have.

It ended up putting Testa out of business, but in the end the employees got paid and the hall put them on other work. But yeah, collective representation doesn’t work.

 

[northmanlogging]

The UA (Plumbers, Pipefitters & HVAC) paid for most of what I had up until I started working. I say the UA did because my dad made close to double what scabs did. I’ve worked for non-union outfits and even the best of them aren’t as productive as a mid-tier outfit that employs out of the halls.

As a business owner, when I was working the gas fields up in PA & NY, I was happy to bring guys in from IUOE, UA, IBEW & Carpenters/Millwrights locals. You know why? I didn’t have to train them. That’s a big deal. I don’t have to pay somebody to learn. I could add & subtract workforce as needed. What I got in return was an already skilled group that worked safe and were as productive in an eight hour day as the equivalent crew I had in KY did in ten. There was no cowboy ******** they’d try, my equipment was taken care of and the jobs were easier to manage.

If you guys don’t think most owners are trying to **** you, you’re terribly mistaken. And if you think you, as an individual, have any bargaining power, they’ll laugh you right out of the office.

Non-union closed shops paying union wages on public projects is called scale pay and when I was building highways we had guys who would specifically request to go do scale jobs. Even if it meant they went from running a D8 to go drive a haul truck. I fail to see that as a negative, the labor gets a better deal, even if they’re not part of the union.

Now, I can’t comment on the experience of being a union member. I worked construction for two small outfits (like max 10 employees) in a red state where unions were on the decline, and I was going to college anyway. After college I worked as a field engineer & superintendent before going out on my own.

I wonder if there is a different mindset, east coast vs west coast unions, My dealings however limited with union outfits, or former union employees, everything took twice as long, because "thats not my job description" or worse, they would claim to know how to do the job, but only find out they only knew how to do 3-4 specific jobs in the shop, and anything different would take a week of training... while they spent the first 4 days ******* off and not learning anything.

Could be the different unions too, the aerospace machinist union (something something association of something something machinissts) is by far the worst of the laziest wastes of o2. The local Teamsters aren't far behind. Most of the IBEW folks I've been around have been alright. A few Masons... talk about a one trick pony lol. To be honest the operating engineesrs pretty much control the major public works stuff, and them guys stay busy, so I've not yet worked with any of theml. But I will say I can build more road then most of em by myself in 2 weeks then them jerks can in 6 weeks with a crew of 10.

 

[NYWoodsman]

You NEED to make $100,000/year in NYC, the price of real estate, and the cost of living are ridiculous

It is a viscous circle, increase wages, the cost of everything goes up, so the workers want another wage increase to offset the prices of goods going up, wages go up (Maybe) prices go up again, and so do any taxes on Income, the wages may go up, but spending power goes Down

Uncle Sam sure Smiles on April 15th though

Doug

Yes but NY union members sell their homes in Queens, Staten Island or Long Island for 1.5 million plus and move south to enjoy very comfortable retirements. Many at a young age. So the everything is relative doesn't really work here. My Brother in Law a NYCITY firefighter retired in 2001 after 911 and has been collecting a 90k a yr pension ever since. It's simple math. Unions work for the working man. Don't let politicians pump misinformation into your heads about, Unions Bad, Evil Unions, Unions Socialist.

 

[NYWoodsman]

I wonder if there is a different mindset, east coast vs west coast unions, My dealings however limited with union outfits, or former union employees, everything took twice as long, because "thats not my job description" or worse, they would claim to know how to do the job, but only find out they only knew how to do 3-4 specific jobs in the shop, and anything different would take a week of training... while they spent the first 4 days ****ing off and not learning anything.

Could be the different unions too, the aerospace machinist union (something something association of something something machinissts) is by far the worst of the laziest wastes of o2. The local Teamsters aren't far behind. Most of the IBEW folks I've been around have been alright. A few Masons... talk about a one trick pony lol. To be honest the operating engineesrs pretty much control the major public works stuff, and them guys stay busy, so I've not yet worked with any of theml. But I will say I can build more road then most of em by myself in 2 weeks then them jerks can in 6 weeks with a crew of 10.

No it's not like that anymore. For unions to survive they know that their employers are making money and most union officials won't stand for slackers. It's a good balance where everyone makes out.

 

[northmanlogging]

No it's not like that anymore. For unions to survive they know that their employers are making money and most union officials won't stand for slackers. It's a good balance where everyone makes out.

seriously, come out here and spend a week with boeing... 90% of em couldn't finish an 8 hour day without asking for a nap

 

[catbuster]

I wonder if there is a different mindset, east coast vs west coast unions, My dealings however limited with union outfits, or former union employees, everything took twice as long, because "thats not my job description" or worse, they would claim to know how to do the job, but only find out they only knew how to do 3-4 specific jobs in the shop, and anything different would take a week of training... while they spent the first 4 days ****ing off and not learning anything.

Could be the different unions too, the aerospace machinist union (something something association of something something machinissts) is by far the worst of the laziest wastes of o2. The local Teamsters aren't far behind. Most of the IBEW folks I've been around have been alright. A few Masons... talk about a one trick pony lol. To be honest the operating engineesrs pretty much control the major public works stuff, and them guys stay busy, so I've not yet worked with any of theml. But I will say I can build more road then most of em by myself in 2 weeks then them jerks can in 6 weeks with a crew of 10.

I’d have to venture that’s correct. Where I am now the only “strong” unions left are the UA and IBEW. IUOE is pretty much a place some companies pull crane operators from. The mid-Atlantic and northeast unions, especially around NYC & Boston kick ass & take names... And don’t put up with people who don’t work.

 

[Jhenderson]

The Boston unions are worthless hacks. They stand around and pick their a—-, not kicking anybody else’s. What else would you call anybody who demands union scale for for a drunk to run an automated freight elevator on a jobsite, breaks into storage lockers owned by another company and leaves those workers without their tools? All because they couldn’t muster a competent crew from their own local, hoisting or millwright. My reference is the big dig and 3 friends who worked for a RI based crane operator. Let’s just say the Boston outfit shut their mouths and sat on their thumbs as long as the guys I knew worked there.
Ps. Thats all in addition to the Boston union hacks that couldn’t even install roof panels in the tunnel to design spec. Same for light fixtures, guardrails, and Leaks. Documents pertaining to faulty workmanship were sealed by the court. Yup. That union kicks a—- and wont tolerate loafers alright.

 

[NYWoodsman]

Funny alot of the same guys who complain about illegals stealing their jobs are also anti union. Makes me wonder when you see non union companies show at a job site and non of them speak English

 

[Jhenderson]

Funny how the unions say NOTHING about illegal immigration. It all leads back to the hotel employees and restaurant union. They live on illegal immigrants. Nice try though. Come back with a legitimate comparison.

 

[NYWoodsman]

Funny how the unions say NOTHING about illegal immigration. It all leads back to the hotel employees and restaurant union. They live on illegal immigrants. Nice try though. Come back with a legitimate comparison.

I'm sure you can provide legitimate proof that these unions have members who are here illegally. Ever hear of HB1 Visas, Nice try. For those of you who think unions are still shady organizations operated by Italy Mob figures nothing could be further from the truth. If only Washington had the oversight that unions are subjected to this country wouldn't be in the mess it's in right now

 

[northmanlogging]

Funny alot of the same guys who complain about illegals stealing their jobs are also anti union. Makes me wonder when you see non union companies show at a job site and non of them speak English

hardly, immigrants easily outwork most "native born" americans and they don't bitch

Round here they tend to make a lot more then their non union "citizen" coworkers, because they get **** done.

Also I might add, most speak at least a little english, many speak french/german/italian/russian as well as spanish English is a PITA to learn, other languages have rules that are actually followed, very few words that are spelled different but pronounced the same... i.e. yew, you, ewe. I, Eye, aye. With english you need to learn context before you can even begin to understand most of our sentences. They more then likely choose to pretend not to speak English, simply so you will just go away...

This is tiptoeing into dangerous political waters... the kind that ends with name calling and insulting each others lack of intelligence, while I'm not a opposed to name calling, or insulting ones intelligence, doing both at the same time is unproductive.

 

[northmanlogging]

For reference, buying the self loader log truck has been an interesting journey with a lot of immigrant labor involved, dudes are absolutely fearless. And literally laugh off near death experiences, but not stupid, they know the danger, and are careful, but do it anyway because it needs to get done. (I just haul their logs, not my zoo, not my monkeys etc, but I do have a lofty vantage point and get to yacking with the grunt laborers)

Where as Union outfits would shut everything down, have a safety meeting, then bring in a specialist, taking a week to get done what should of taken an hour.