What do you look for in a Climber?

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I have recently gone through this. I now start off at the basics.
Driver licence?
Can you back up a truck with chipper?
Sharpen a saw?
That will tell you most of what you need to know to get started with a new "climber".
 
Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
Can you tie a bo'lin, clove....well how'bout a treminal eight???

Next!

JPS, your post brought back many memories. :D I watched my father interview many “climbers”. He would hand them a rope and say “show me the knots you use while climbing”. He sent a lot of them on their way after they could not tie a bowline. :eek:
 
i flunked a test like that once;

had to walk away without argue-meant!




Something about a double ring bowline,
with Y-tie off,




Tied behind my back,
Even TDS'd



Even done the 2nd time;so they could watch
to show there was no magic didn't do,




(save slip knot method, kept loose),
as, my fingers......
never left my hands....



Well, wuz a lil'too much, like
asking at Catechism :angel: School; if


"God can do anything,
Can He make a rock so big,


He can't lift it?"
it seems....



Orrrrrr something like that!
:alien: :alien:
 
D-D-D-Dang, don't pick on my Bowline now Mike......:eek:
Good point on the knotless though!
Lil ol'school here; maybe mixed in some new.......

i kinda chose it to learn as a clear, open , secure, strong, quick temporary eye; Drilled it in good around my thigh watching TV
Putting it together from diffrent books at the time
(slip knot method in 1, double ring in 1, tie off in 1)

Keep it loose while making in slip knot method,
almost makes itself in air with weight of line pulling!

then rig mostly screw gate karab/slings to loads, then to that same eye all day. Adds loads of security, increase strength ~6%, and is more symetrical like mountaineers 8 for easier spot/buddy checking...... IMLHO Keep steel screwgate in eye for hanging on belt, 1/2 hitch running karab, throw weight etc.

So, about knotless
so, can preset slings moves ahead,
while line returns, sometimes using the preset, slideable to reset hitching for difrrent purposes,
(hang drink, saw, pulley, redirect lines from each other, redirect line for more friction, for less friction, 2/1 of a far 1 then, reset without pulley and get it next without another move , speed line down control line before or after mainline lowering etc.)


Bowlines are supposed to be king of knots, but more from an age of 'hairy' ropes locking against slip with hairs interloccking to drag, opposite our synthetics now like MM leans towards (of course).

Simple half hitch choke around doubled tail laying over load line into ring, bout to simple to jam! HIgher strength of knotted eyes. In simplest form should be made with tail inside ring to avert total inversion /release (much as slip knot method makes knot).

Sensibly that even puts it in the same position as it's properly made brother the sheet bend( virtually same- save loop of bowline is cut open); in that the properly cut open bowline to sheet bend, ends up with the tails of the sheet bend on the same side as is proper; diffrent sides for tails in sheetbend is weaker and less secure.

And a sheet bend/becket is already compromised in strength compared to bowline by about 10% by grabbing one leg and not eye of 2, and already less secure for the choke is not from both sides, only 1. Also thus can jam! But it joins 2 ropes, with the warning don't trust your life on it; biggest thing is it joins ropes of diffrent sizes quickly, thicker/softer must make loop or line cuts the other. Can be made slipped, or higher security, doulbe ring w.tie off like bowline!

::Therefore, loading a bowline loop from 2 diffrent angles inside the loop (rather than 1 pull inside the loop, 1 from line as designed), can weaken, destabilize bowline, closer to sheetbend, especially with mailnline pull unloaded!! Do not do!


Or something like that.....
:alien:
 
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First of all I'll say I'm no p###y! Some people on the job are just a@@h@@es. Ya know what I mean. I can take alot from alot of people. With a year and a half of exeriance I feel I'm where I need to be at this point in my career. Still got alot to learn and looking forward to learning it. I love tree work and climbing is my passion. I want to be an excellent climber. Not just average. So you probably could say I have a lot of drive. I just want this one guy who comes in to be cool while he's here. I know he's a good climber and has a lot of knowledge to share. That's cool with me share and I'll learn as much from you as I can. Don't be an a@@ about it.

This is what I'm curious about. Big Removals. Can anyone here share with me what I need to work on. I've got alot in my tool box. I've been learning from a guy with 30+ experiance. The best all around climber I know. He is helping me as much as he can, but if I could get some extra pointers from you all then maybe I can speed up my learning curve. So please help me if you can.

Thanks,BB
 
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Brian you're right. That's a tough one. I guess I was hoping for some general pointers to keep working on to get an edge. I really want to get an edge on these big removals. I almost wish I could hook up with a climber who specializes in big removals and work with him after work or on the weekends. That would be a prime situation ya know. Maybe someone will reach out to me.
 
I've been on alot of crews and worked with a lot of a$$es before. After awhile you just get use to 'm. Brian said it best, (although I am not familiar with a lot of the newer styles, etc. the basics are the same) plan your work, and work your plan. Remember the whole group is a team from the ground crew, to the climber, and even the salesman. The best safety device known to man is his brain, use it.
Sometimes old timers can see that they are getting older, and they envy the heck out of younger people that may see as a threat to their security. So they will point out any fault they can find with the up-and-comers.
You will see it all the time, as you continue in your carreer. It doesn't even end when you own your own company...there is always someone out there that has no merits of their own...so they try hard to trash others to make themselves look a little better than they are.
Good luck to you, and I hope this helps some.
 
Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel

-Remember the ground crew. Work with them as a team rather than burying them with a clusterflicked mess.The job isn't done until the mess is cleaned up. You are the one who determines how difficult the cleanup will be.

:cool:

You know it, brother. On most jobs I do, clean-up is 2/3 to 3/4 of the total time spent on the job. The faster the cleanup, the sooner I'm paid and on my way home.

Took down a 75' willow a few weeks ago in Rockland, 42" DBH. Only took 50 minutes to tear the tree apart, but a whole day to chip & move chunks. Had to bomb huge sections of the top, which was mostly dead and rotten, and of course, detonated on impact into all sorts of junk to rake up. But it was a fun takedown nonetheless.
 
Originally posted by oldugly
Sometimes old timers can see that they are getting older, and they envy the heck out of younger people that may see as a threat to their security. So they will point out any fault they can find with the up-and-comers.
You will see it all the time, as you continue in your carreer. It doesn't even end when you own your own company...there is always someone out there that has no merits of their own...so they try hard to trash others to make themselves look a little better than they are.
Good luck to you, and I hope this helps some.

This is insiteful. I bet this is Froggy's problem, if he gets more climbing work, what happens to the guy that used to do it? Does he drag brush? Not for his climbers wage. Does he get fired?
If they needed more climbing help, they'd have Froggy climbing.
 
Stillllll i would kinda say, walk don't run; there is power in tools of youth, but sometimes too much exhuberance..... (like wanting to do a big wood blindly, in time will come to reach there and test your talents-all too soon staanding against monster stuff and piles of sawdust in pockets and down shirt....) Many times you can gather more ground behind ya as ya seek, looking at it slow and intently, instead of racing by and missing most of it! Cutting some with a handsaw while pulling on or finishing a limb, can give all kinds of observations, that you could then see in the faster moving later. Many old magician's secret is being seamlessly integrated, slow motion perfect, that every motion counts and they seem fast as things fly around them,as they are jsut calmly the pivot of that arc, a perfectly focused machined and tempered over time.

Keep your head low aimed at real targets, not dis-trackted by the bs........ Thinking, drawing out your targets, seeing 5 ways to do something, picking best ......from ground then climb is pretty dang good...... Stand straight under crotches to rig from, look straight up, pick one that will plum-bob load right to that sweet spot that is open, and leading towards dispensing truck(sometimes in air, you will throw line to there and not be able to look down and see where it will deliver exactly in best clear spot between houses etc.). Don't cut out all the easy stuff first blindly, boss likes the ground to have something to do; so nice to bulk out a few points at first-but make sure, it is not a strong support to clear area, you could have rigged everything from over roof to easily.......but you cut it out...! Gathering experience on the chess board to think moves ahead, as ya becomes an ol'timer.

Though, i've found too, to keep an open mind, i've surveyed, erased , chose best of 3 differeent plans as setting climb, those are just ground notes, observations of evennness from ground etc. You will learn which of those things to ignore as it looks different in air, so generally go with that plan, drop most of rest; except a few obwervations, you learn are more accurate from ground to go with as ya develop style/strategy. Which you are well on your way to.....

Know too, if they been around, they pulled this on someone before-perhaps many times; they're are people like that all around........................it is just that you arre reporting that tree work is no different than working with guys on a dock, warehouse, cops, board rooms etc. Sometimes the more strength, risk etc. the more Billy Bad Butt has to roar.....these guys are right, good chip of that like on the playground is fear of ya getting close to thier territory, so snort that bluff at'ya keep ya backed down, thinking you can't compete in your own head, so they don't have to deal with ya.....sure you seen that b4!

Perhaps ya can't beat'em with a rope yet for all their years, perhaps they been yankin' peoples chains jest as long, so a lil'tough beatin there right now presently too; as you still trying to step up to the game they been practicing for 20! Obvioulsy concentrating on which part of that ya should, but what about the rest of that energy they conspire to thieve away to with what else they been playing, well practiced?

Hard ta beat a quieter guy sometimes that ya can't throw all that at, or seems not to weigh him down; as he quietly gathers himself with his total; has calm smile and just seems confidentally, quietly, po-lightly rising like a clear bubble through the sludge, steady and sure from whatever point he starts, is better each day...... maybe so inconspicous, save the trail behind him at first, but in time, the most noticed for clean quality (that never goes outta style), heart and ascending rightly; where folx kinda look to where he is evolving to confidentally as perhaps others should take to, even if they don't understand a knew knot-and the passion of trying 'em all to get best one and few trisx in belt-and any insight from you find they know is clean and clear, for what you stand aside from.

Know too, you wuz looking for a job, when ya found this'un; so maybe in a year or so, for what ever reason, you will about sucked all the knowledge you could from JoeBlow, and your passion and other things will bring ya to another door in your journeymanship, as any other s-kill you gather with such lust, for it's own sake. For all of us can't see ya to tell ya even what a big tree is in comparison of what a big tree is from where you are in mind and geography, at the same time; not thinking any won hear couldn't see; ya definitely have the hunger, found the scent; and definitely hot on the trail!

2 olde wons to re-member:

When in doubt, rope it out!

They're are old climbers,
and they're bold climbers;
But t'aint really no-
old & bold climbers!

ADD:
cuz; this is real life,
and that herd;
gets thinned!


Oh, and remember please,
in a Frog's education.....
spiders on the web;
aren't tasty insects!:eek:
(gots enough troubles stayin' out from under foot,
'round ol'JP presently thnk'ya!)

So to,
know too true,
This is a tough workplace that demands some toughness,
don't make up the balance by being toooooo nice when it is your turn,
Some heckling is good to draw this out and test, as to fraternity,
there are always distractions for one thing that must be ruled out to focus,
Just as pulling on a hinge slightly can make it stronger,
to flex through it's arc,
so too


Or something like that!
2?
:alien: :alien:
 
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-Plan your cuts so you minimize additional cutting on the ground. You can cut a limb in 3 chipable sections faster than cutting one whole lead and waiting for the groundman to cut it into chipable size and move the limbs (after setting the saw down out of the way).

i strongly disagree with the above statement. when i figure out a removal, i look at it in makeing the least amount of cuts possible. it's a hell of alot easier to cut on the ground than in the air. i don't like the chipper running when i'm climbing. just stack the brush up and chip it when i'm dealing with the wood. useing a rope and lowering big wack's beats out cut it small and let it fall every time.

froggy.....what's giving you the problems? big oaks, tall pines , big dead tree's tall tree's , wide trees, rigging in small back yards?
 
I have to agree with KF here. The fewer cuts in the air, the better. That starts with my game plan. First question, - Can this tree be flopped in 1 cut? That = 0 cuts in the tree. If it can't be flopped and safely bucked after flopped, it comes down in the biggest pieces possible.

I know what Brian is talking about, nothing worse than sitting up in a tree with no crown in 95-100 F weather with the sun beating down on you while you already have the next cut rigged and you are just waiting for ground help to get their stuff moved out of the landing zone.

Patience truly is a virtue froggy. I entered this field with a university degree. It got my foot in some doors where I started as foreman even though my climbing skills were weak. Knowing that the job needed to get done as quick and safe as possible, that meant I stayed on the ground or was the first on the ground dragging brush.

I think all good climbers have shagged their fair share of brush and still do when it must be done. I just put my mind in a another happier place and keep that brush moving.

Don't let the Aholes get to you. Then they have won. I look at the climbers that were Aholes to me and laugh now. they still have the same job making the same shatty wage while I am in the shape of my life, running my own biz and having lots of vacation time too.
 
I'll agree with plant your rous an plan the cuts, but i too am in favor of rigging large wood out.

That is if you can do it efficiently. If you have to down climb to pull a hung crotch, it is not worth it, if you have to wait a lot for one ground giu toi cut things down, it aint good either, but if you can make one big cut and move to another station while the guys make it smaller, that is allways best.

Here's one, when cutiing & chucking limbs, try to stack as you go so the brush pilots can grab it and go. The sooner they are out of your DZ, the sooner you can make more fro them to drag.

Comunicate with the people on the ground, especialy a rope man. Whatdo you intend the peice to do and what do you want him to do. "OK, I'm going to let this peal off and then you let it run a few feet before stopping it.."
 
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I think I've figured out what to do about this situation. First of all be the better man and not go mouth to mouth with him. No pun intended. Work to better my self every day. Get rigging down to a science. Make things happen for me. Not just sit around and pout like a baby. I already know where I stand and know what I'm worth as a climber. I'll be doing every tree out there if I just keep working hard and learn more day to day. Most of the time the ones who are quiet and learn. Rather than complain about how thier treated when the slightest thing goes wrong. Are the ones in the long run who turn out to be the better man and an excellent climber. There's a story that comes to mind that my Daddy use to tell me every time I felt down. It's not the loudest one who wins the fight. Might not even be the strongest one. Usualy it's the one who is quiet and learns technique and wit. Uses what he learns to better him self. Once he rises above the other. There usualy is no question who is the winner of the battle. If there is any battle at all.

I wanted to add to this discussion. Another thought. If anyone is interested in talking and discussing rigging and techniques. Maybe there could be some sort of discussion group one or two nights a week on Arborsite Chat. Just a thought. Let me know what you all might think.
Thanks,BB
 
Hey Froggy,

I had and have some of the same questions and concerns you do. To better my learning (I don't have another climber readily available to teach) I bought Arbor Master series on Practical rigging and have rented many from Wes Spur. These help you get a good idea, then it's just practice. I have been making myself do some of the rigging even though it is not needed, just for practice. It helps. As for the hazing, you are going to have to suck it up. Coming from the ARMY as a Ranger and now a career fireman, joke and hazing are just part of the game for any profession where "they've done it and you haven't." You'll do the same when "you've done it." It'll be ok, as long as you are satisified & the one that writes the check and the end of the week, don't sweat the others

just a thought
rwilk
 
Glad you listened to your Dad, when all is said and done, people prefer to be around the humble man who knows his worth then the competant bragart who tells every one what he thinks of himself.

Keep the right attitude and try to learn from everyone you meet (you lerned something form the jerk, you don't want to grow up like him) and have fun at what you do well. People will want you around.

While no one is irreplaceable, one can make ones self indispenceable.
 

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