What is the best style stove, EPA, CAT, down drafter, one with a grate

[oldspark]

Barrel stove on steroids... I understand they really kick out some serious heat.

Rates high on my neat list, plus if it does not work you can shoot sky rockets out of the tubes on the 4th.

 

[oldspark]

I have stack and stove top thermos but they don't tell me nearly as much as viewing through the glass. For instance at start up. Or when to add some wood.

And to know from 20ft. across the room is a big advantage.

I never see finicky.

I'll never have a non fire view wood stove again, and I do mean never!



.

At start up the temps are rising and you need wood when the temps are getting lower, if the temps are out of line you know the fire is not responding and you change the air settings. Not sure why the temp gauges did not indicate what you needed to know.
Ran the old stove that way for 30 years with no problems, only source of heat in the house.
Running it that way in the shop now with no issues.
The old stove was a set it and forget it stove, new one not the same, you have to keep a close eye on it and shut it down in stages.

 

[naturelover]

Blaa, blaa, blaa, blaa, blaa, blaa... blaa...
We've been through all that to the point of puking all over the floor. I tried everything suggested... and a couple dozen more.
Why is it so hard for some of y'all to just believe that the modern, high-efficiency units are not always the best choice for all applications and situations‼ Why is it so hard for some of y'all to just believe that the modern, high-efficiency units are not necessarily the best thing since sliced bread for everybody's needs‼

Cerran,
I was bein' a smart-azz man, it was nothing more than a friendly dig.
*

What model of EPA stove did you have? Can't remember.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

 

[oldspark]

I never said temp gauges didn't indicate what I needed to know.


But why look at gauges when you can see the state of the wood stove from across the room with just a glance?

Glass viewing is a revolution!


.

Not everyone's stove is viewable from across the room and as I walk by the stove I just look at the gauges.
What works for you works for you, I was just pointing out temp gauges work if you do not have glass in your door.
And you did say it did not tell you as much as viewing the fire.

 

[oldspark]

Gauges don't tell you as much as watching the fire directly. Gauges are like watching a beauty contest and picking the winner based on measurements.

For instance when getting a fire started, gauges tell you nothing. Direct viewing even from 20ft. away tells the whole story.

Modern wood stoves are meant to be seen, not tucked away. The ability to view the fire is paramount.

No wonder you are happier with your old stove. Any box of steel can sit and smoulder a fire.


.

Not sure why you want to argue about this.
Starting a new fire in a stove gets hotter (in my part of the world any way) so flue and stove temps thermometers tell you the fire is going well.
My stove is not tucked away but in the center of the house not the living room. Why would you think its tucked away?
This has nothing to do with my old stove, just talking about temp gauges and how useful they are.
You trying to turn this into some thing else?
And why do you think I smoldered the fire, any idiot should know better.
You obviously have never run an older stove correctly (as many others also)

 

[oldspark]

A newly started stove doesn't run hotter if it doesn't catch on.

Gauges show that, did you not read my post?
Just say you want to debate how the new stoves run.
You never answered my questions though, why do you think my stove is tucked away and why do you think I smoldered the fire.
All the advice on running the new stoves states reduce the air in stages, that one fact alone makes it more "difficult".
Now I am well aware that some of the older stoves were crap but mine was not and any one could run that.
I have been heating about 2500 sq feet in NW Iowa for the last 3 years with the new stove so I think I know how to run MY new stove.

 

[NSMaple1]

A newly started stove doesn't run hotter if it doesn't catch on.

And the guages would reflect that.

Sounds like corn flakes got peed in this morning....

 

[naturelover]

You know, I've heard about the stages thing, but I can pretty much set mine after it's been going a bit without doing that.


I've got a stovetop gauge on the 30, mainly because it is my first EPA stove, and was making sure I wasn't over firing it.

But after a few fires, I can look in there and tell what its doing.

However, I'd think one could run a non windowed EPA stove with a good set of gauges and knowing what, and when, temps you should be running at.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

 

[flotek]

I couldn't imagine running a wood heating appliance without a viewing window ..yes a minor amount of heat is lost through the ceramic glass but it's not technically lost " per say . It tells you everything you need to know about the current state of your burning in the firebox and gives ambience ..Having a stove or furnace without a window to me would be like having a house without windows might as well live in a jail cell

 

[Eric Modell]

Great thread people all think their way is best. We just open up the draft until we are to hot shut er down until it needs more wood, Rocket science. I am going to hire a brain surgeon to tell me if my wood is ready yet. The report is it is not yet.
Now I need an economist to tell me if i can buy a new EPA stove and two years of dry wood so I wont be low on wood feeding the smoke dragons. I think I will write Obama a letter for advice since he is does us such a good job.

 

[Oxford]

Well, it's good to see Whitespider and his giant pulsating brain are consistent, at least. For those of you who may have missed the original account of his experience with an EPA stove, it went something like this:

1. His original stove shot craps.
2. He cabbages on to an EPA stove from the used but nice pile. He matched it to his wallet, not his application.
3. He combined several boxes of beer with about $100 in assorted electrical hardware and sheet metal to make a furnace out of a wood stove, slid it into place and went to work. Sum total of time spent making sure implement fit application: 0.
4. His wife got cold, because he, like me, lives in an old house with poor windows and insulation, and she wasn't able to magically make his hermaphrodite stove work, in spite of his repeated insistences that the laws of physics do not apply to him, that the EPA is a bunch of know-nothings, something about the Trilateral Commission, the "bungalow syndrome", and other sound and fury signifying nothing.
5. Several people, evidently gluttons for punishment, tried to reasonably point out that, in fact, his problems might be due to his own modifications rather than any inherent flaw in the stove.
6. He responded by saying a bunch of stuff that basically amounted to quasi-physics, almost-engineering, and the kind of generalized Internet bull that you can get away with because nobody's looking right at you to call you on it.
7. Eventually, enough truth was presented that he could no longer deny it, and he admitted that maybe his Budweiser-enhanced engineering may have been the problem all along, and he promised to quit blowing about EPA stoves.
8. He found another cheap stove, but this one actually is appropriate to his application.
9. AS crashed, so history vanished and he forgot all the details of his experience and reverted to his default position as the Gabby Johnson of Arboristsite, purveyor and proclaimer of authentic frontier gibberish.
10. And here we are.

I don't really have a dog in the fight. We heat with an Oval Sweetheart cook stove in our kitchen and are happy with it, you can put air to it from any which way you want. Like Spider, I got a really good deal on it. Unlike his, it's exactly what I, and more importantly, my wife, wanted. If I was buying a new one, it would likely be EPA just for the burn times.

I think there's room for debate, but I don't think burning wood gives carte blanche to be willfully ignorant.

 

[flotek]

I found that post very entertaining

 

[Eric Modell]

I couldn't imagine running a wood heating appliance without a viewing window ..yes a minor amount of heat is lost through the ceramic glass but it's not technically lost " per say . It tells you everything you need to know about the current state of your burning in the firebox and gives ambience ..Having a stove or furnace without a window to me would be like having a house without windows might as well live in a jail cell

I have always thought I wanted a window but for my situation we can run the stoves just fine without one. We actually have a bimetallic thermometer on the old smoke dragon but only look at once a year or two.

 

[naturelover]

lol oxford, thanks for the recap!

 

[Steve NW WI]

Great thread people all think their way is best. We just open up the draft until we are to hot shut er down until it needs more wood, Rocket science. I am going to hire a brain surgeon to tell me if my wood is ready yet. The report is it is not yet.
Now I need an economist to tell me if i can buy a new EPA stove and two years of dry wood so I wont be low on wood feeding the smoke dragons. I think I will write Obama a letter for advice since he is do us such a good job.

I really aught to just follow through on my word, but since this post has as much sarcasm as it does poor grammar, I'll let it go and repeat my warning one last time:

The next person to go off on a political rant in this post gets a warning, and the whole mess gets tossed over the fence into political. Is that clear?

 

[Whitespider]

Oxford,
Actually, there's more "internet bull" in your post than anything I've posted about my EPA box.
Let's count 'em back...

• 10. Yep, and here we are.
• 9. AS may have crashed but history wasn't lost, all the old threads are still there... pictures may be missing. Seems you're the one that has either forgotten the "details"... or just choose to see them as you wish history was.
• 8. Cheap stove?? Out of respect for the AS member I purchased it from, I've never stated what I paid for it... I've only stated a new one retails for around $2000.oo.
• 7. I've never, ever admitted that "Budweiser-enhanced engineering" was the problem (but you said it was)... I have said several times that it was the wrong appliance for the intended purpose. And I never, ever promised to quit grousing about the EPA or the stoves inspired by regulations... that would be like a dog promising to stop licking his nuts. By-the-way, I un-did all my "Budweiser-enhanced engineering" and installed it in the shop... nothing changed, same issues, different day.
• 6. I've already mentioned the "internet bull".
• 5. Several people pointed out several possible problems/solutions, not just the "modifications"... none of them were a solution, most made things worse. Like I said, installed (original configuration) in the shop... same crap.
• 4. My wife got cold because the box was, and still is, a lousy heater. (For someone who's never stepped foot in my home, or even met me, you sure seem to know a lot about me, my family, my home, and my stove... or is something going on between you and my wife I should know about?) You certainly can ignore the "Florida Bungalow Syndrome" if you choose, but it came from a well respected source in the industry... and as of yet, it's the one-and-only explanation that fits all the symptoms. If you can find a better one that fits as well or better (based on something other than arm-chair internet observation, personal bias against Budweiser, and a personal distaste for my "style" of posting)... I'm all friggin' ears‼
• 3. Funny... how is it again that you know so much about me?? Including how much beer was "combined" with the project?? I think you should check the facts again... all that assorted "electrical hardware" consisted of a single $7.oo snap switch.
• 2. We keep coming back to this... but, seriously man, just how is it that you know me so well that you even know about my wallet??
• 1. Well... you did manage to get the first and last right... yep, #1 the original firebox cracked and, #10 here we are.

Heck man, I didn't so much mind the content of your post... it could have been damn funny...
What bothered me was ya' tried to represent it as some sort of fact based chronology... which it is far from. Although, no doubt a few will find it funny...
*

 

[kodiak]

I found that post very entertaining

And accurate

 

[Oxford]

Well, I don't have time to refute all of this morning's dose of Whitespider Generated Used Oats, but as it turns out, you did it for me, when you posted:

I no longer blame the stove for my problems, or its design by the manufacturer… after all, they have done exactly what they are required to do under EPA regulations. Besides, it ain’t like Pacific Energy didn’t warn me in their manual (although no draft numbers in the manual)…
“The chimney flue size should be the same as the stove outlet for optimal performance. Reducing or increasing the flue size may adversely affect stove performance.”
But I do see the EPA requirements, and therefore the resulting design, as a contributor to the problems I’m having… under my installation conditions (which are not condoned be the manufacturer). Whether-or-not the EPA requirements are a good thing, or a bad thing, or need revising, or whatever doesn’t change what-is-what-it-is. Using the old air-tight design, with a single air intake under a grate (thereby forcing the air to be pulled up through the fire) and a single combustion gas exit, I was able to close the draft control and/or flue damper to the point it would run properly… and I thought I could do the same with an EPA design. Well, I was flat wrong (there, I said it)… and that’s all on me. Trying to place blame somewhere else is simply being pig-headed and refusing to take responsibility for my own mistakes… I didn’t do the study and research I should have, plain and simple.

And while I’m in the mood to admit my part in this fiasco…
No doubt, if connected to a recommended chimney, pulling draft somewhere within specification, my “stovace” would have performed as I expected/wanted… or at least close. There have been dozens of things posted, pointing to what the problem is… such as my modifications, poor draft, blower, and so on. There was one thing posted by Del I believe (man I hate to admit that)… simply… “A Bad Install.”​

There are numerous similar quotes, and every point on my timeline can be supported by one, if you like. It's been quite some time since I was impressed by bluster, and I don't figure I'll start now.

 

[blacklocst]

lol oxford, thanks for the recrap!

There fixed for accuracy.

 

[Whitespider]

You're forgetting one very important fact Oxford,
I installed it in the shop, per manufacturer's recommendation, returned to original manufacturer's configuration, even installed new firebrick... and it's as bad or worse than it was in the house.
And furthermore... nowhere in the above did I "admitted that maybe (my) Budweiser-enhanced engineering may have been the problem all along"... nowhere‼ That was about the flue/chimney and resulting draft (Remember?? The Florida Bungalow Syndrome??)... but keep puttin' things in the context you like... (shrug)
*