ForTheArborist
Addicted to ArboristSite
Lol i just read this crap on my phone. Ooooooh what a heart ache, ya filthy pros. Lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
What knot are you tying on before you drop those tops?
- Thread starter ForTheArborist
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
:bang:
ForTheArborist
Addicted to ArboristSite
Oh geeze, mr. woveystrom. I mistook all of that as being towards me. I only glanced the bottom of the thread about handing out info for $20. Right away I thought that was for me.
opcorn:
Running DBY, but preceded by Half Hitch (Marl if tricky).
Favor Slip-Knot method for tying DBY.
Running Bowline, like Timber, should pull across / perpendicular to spar; not along it's length. So if lowering, i think these should only properly be used if spar floats horizontal in balance.
A rope can only exert force on it's inline axis. So is best not to pull at angle. Running Bowline goes around spar and pulls perpendicular to spar, Standing Tension Part is inline with back of Bowline eye seating into spar. Pull along length of spar, and the pull of Standing, is not inline with the 'stop' on that pull at back of spar.
Preceding with Half Hitch and pull along length of spar, and most force taken by Half Hitch (reducing tighteni8ng of final Bowline, can have several Half Hitches as separate grabs on spar); and Standing Tension Part pull into Half Hitch is inline with the 'stop' of the other end of Half Hitch exiting that part of lacing. This inline section corrects the 'fault' of the primary / initial pull , pulling at angle on device (rope) that only resists / supports force on inline axis properly.
Ashley Book of Knots lists pulls inline and perpendicular to spar / rail as 2 different chapters of knots; and the above patterns of inline proper pulls can be seen.
A Marl is different from Half Hitch, in that you can slip Marl off end of spar, and you have a basic OverHand knot form. Slip Half Hitch off end of spar and it just melts out leaving 'straight' line. A Marl will pass less force thru it to next in chain, but takes more time, and harder to pre-tighten to set etc. The final Running bowline would still pull at angle, leveraging. But, without preceding with Half, pull on Bowline is leveraged per initiating pull, but it is lessened with Half preceding so is not leveraged per initiating pull.
For smaller stuff, i have Dyneema loops + Foins, sometimes precede by Half Hitch. Favor, seat Running Bowline, Timber, Halfs and Marls etc. at imperfections, swells, tapers, crotches etc. that will purposefully ad to locking.
Favor Slip-Knot method for tying DBY.
Running Bowline, like Timber, should pull across / perpendicular to spar; not along it's length. So if lowering, i think these should only properly be used if spar floats horizontal in balance.
A rope can only exert force on it's inline axis. So is best not to pull at angle. Running Bowline goes around spar and pulls perpendicular to spar, Standing Tension Part is inline with back of Bowline eye seating into spar. Pull along length of spar, and the pull of Standing, is not inline with the 'stop' on that pull at back of spar.
Preceding with Half Hitch and pull along length of spar, and most force taken by Half Hitch (reducing tighteni8ng of final Bowline, can have several Half Hitches as separate grabs on spar); and Standing Tension Part pull into Half Hitch is inline with the 'stop' of the other end of Half Hitch exiting that part of lacing. This inline section corrects the 'fault' of the primary / initial pull , pulling at angle on device (rope) that only resists / supports force on inline axis properly.
Ashley Book of Knots lists pulls inline and perpendicular to spar / rail as 2 different chapters of knots; and the above patterns of inline proper pulls can be seen.
A Marl is different from Half Hitch, in that you can slip Marl off end of spar, and you have a basic OverHand knot form. Slip Half Hitch off end of spar and it just melts out leaving 'straight' line. A Marl will pass less force thru it to next in chain, but takes more time, and harder to pre-tighten to set etc. The final Running bowline would still pull at angle, leveraging. But, without preceding with Half, pull on Bowline is leveraged per initiating pull, but it is lessened with Half preceding so is not leveraged per initiating pull.
For smaller stuff, i have Dyneema loops + Foins, sometimes precede by Half Hitch. Favor, seat Running Bowline, Timber, Halfs and Marls etc. at imperfections, swells, tapers, crotches etc. that will purposefully ad to locking.
beowulf343
Addicted to ArboristSite
Spyder, Wow, good to see a post from you! First time I've seen one of your posts in a long time-always excellent reading.
ForTheArborist
Addicted to ArboristSite
It's settled now. Clove + Half Hitch or Running Bowline are the knots of choice for tree top drops. Thanks, pros. You know what they say. If you want to go somewhere, it's best to find someone that's already been there.
I haven't used the running bowline before, but I've been using the clove hitch and two half hitches for a while. This knot is reliable up to a certain amount of weight. Then it binds to hard to be worth playing with, thus the reason I brought up the original question in the thread.
Trying the "runner" on some Eucs today.
I haven't used the running bowline before, but I've been using the clove hitch and two half hitches for a while. This knot is reliable up to a certain amount of weight. Then it binds to hard to be worth playing with, thus the reason I brought up the original question in the thread.
Trying the "runner" on some Eucs today.
Last edited:
ForTheArborist
Addicted to ArboristSite
A half hitch before the running bowline.....that's the one to drop a ton on. Yip :msp_thumbup:
BigUglySquirrel
ArboristSite Operative
My 2 cents
I use a half hitch and slippery running bowline most of the time. Groundies love it. Sometimes I use the timberhitch with a half to back it up. Tie, set and dress properly and be certain to pull everything tight and I've never had any issues.
I use a half hitch and slippery running bowline most of the time. Groundies love it. Sometimes I use the timberhitch with a half to back it up. Tie, set and dress properly and be certain to pull everything tight and I've never had any issues.
ForTheArborist
Addicted to ArboristSite
Jeff, is that half hitch you're using back over the log, or is it just directly onto line? If it is, I don't like it.
I'm thinking clove hitch next to a half hitch both on the log, and then tie the tale back to the rope with a half hitch. Wadaya think?
I'm thinking clove hitch next to a half hitch both on the log, and then tie the tale back to the rope with a half hitch. Wadaya think?
Yes, but I'm not likely to go in that direction. I am from the traditional way of climbimg the ladder in the tree industry:
My own tradition.
LOL
Nobody hurt yet. Its great you make your own ladder, its a shame someone else might be under it when it crashes down because you hadnt even seen what a proper one looks like.
If you get the same advice, time and time again (have you counted how many times yet?) about learning this stuff properly from professionals that have forgotten more than you know (and its pretty obvious that your learning WAY to slow if at this stage your asking about rigging tops this far into your learn-treework-from-the-internet game) you have to start questioning if its arrogance or ignorance which is holding you back more.
Hire a properly experienced arborist for 6 months or work for someone else. It will MAKE you. It will make your business far more productive, it will make your clients better off, you will make more money faster and there any drawbacks are negligible.
Im a nag but I want you to be an arborist, and a great one. What are you trying to do?
ForTheArborist
Addicted to ArboristSite
You're trying to get me fired up, Timbo. :spam:
superjunior
Addicted to ArboristSite
it doesn't get much easier then a running bowline above a half hitch. especially when blocking a hefty chunk over - the half hitch just above the cut lessens the distance of the fall between the chunk and block.
easy to tie/untie, never binds and very safe
easy to tie/untie, never binds and very safe
ForTheArborist
Addicted to ArboristSite
ForTheArborist
Addicted to ArboristSite
No doubt about that. I can't see any way to keep the clove hitch from over binding on itself in the heavy drops.
It's hilarious to me how lost you still are after all this time! Hahaha. Timber gave you some pretty good advice.. I'm thinking you're not clever enough to learn off the internet... not saying it can't be done.
treeclimber101
UNCLE BUCK
I like to use what some here would call a "hatchet" knot its so tight and generally ####ed up and just #### poor than when it reaches the ground they use a hatchet to untie it , but that a Jersey thing not too many guys roll like me ....
TimberJack_7
ArboristSite Operative
Forum: Commercial Tree Care and Climbing
This Forum is for experienced tree climbers. Ask beginner or new to the business questions in the Arborist 101 Forum.
This Forum is for experienced tree climbers. Ask beginner or new to the business questions in the Arborist 101 Forum.
treeclimber101
UNCLE BUCK
FTA is no novice ... He is as professional as AA and he is welcome to ask as many incredibly obtuse questions as wikipedia can't answer
Stupid thread!
Jeff
Jeff
treeclimber101
UNCLE BUCK
Stupid thread!
Jeff
You should start a thread on how to feed a turtle and take a picture of a parking lot .... Riveting ......
