Why would anyone run 100 to 1 premix?

[huskystihl]

In my trimmer, only! Never in a saw that Ive got $700-$850 in. Too much money to be cheap with oil. Oil is cheap compared to a pricey saw!

Cheap compared to what, ultra? I wouldn't call $10 a quart cheap for oil. In comparrison to stihl synthetic yes it's cheap. I just started running it and outside of having to reset the idle on all my saws a few times to get em right I have no complaints. Then again I mix it at 70/1 instead of 100

 

[tdi-rick]

<snip>

It is nearly twice as thick as most oils prior to mixing.

<snip>.

Compared to what ?
Yes you're right when comparing to almost all licensed JASO FD oils for scooter/bike use, I've posted the same thing many times in the past.

Compare it to almost any race oil and it's still on the light end, most start at around 13cSt and go up to over 20cSt and most all of those recommend 50:1 (2%) or 66:1 (1.5%) at the weakest blend rates on MX bikes, which obviously aren't run at full throttle for minutes on end and most are water cooled these days to boot.
Those same oils are recommended to be used on kart engines at up to 18:1 (air cooled)
Obviously much higher specific outputs, but using a richer oil/fuel mix is the only way to make them last.
Saw specific outputs are increasing, and we have the disadvantage of having to run at extended periods at full throttle and often with chip, dust and oil fouled cooling fins.

As I posted earlier on, yes you can make OPE engines last for some time at 100:1, they just don't have the specific output to truly tax an oil, but you do have to load it with EP/AW additives to really make sure.
I do think Amsoil make some good oils, some are even exceptional, but I can't believe that 100:1 is good practice and won't do it in my equipment.

The 100:1 thing isn't a hard and fast rule by Amsoil either

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Saber 100:1 2-Cycle Oils are recommended for 100:1 mix
ratios in normal service. Richer mix ratios may be used where desired.

2.6 oz. per 1 U.S. gallon = 50:1
8 oz. per 5 U.S. gallons = 80:1
1.3 oz. per 1 U.S. gallon = 100:1
8 oz. per 6 U.S. gallons = 100:1

BTW, if the Amsoil is cheaper than Ultra, I'd use it in a heartbeat, just not at 100:1.

Just because you can doesn't mean something is optimal.

 

[tdi-rick]

Banjo is right ,it is the oil, not the machine. It is not just solvents, but oils are designed and made with different vicosities to be mixed and used at a certain ratio. So mix the oil at the ratio the oil manufacturer says, not the machine maker.

<snip>

Obviously my arguments against that statement over on BITOG didn't sway you cmarti

 

[tdi-rick]

Cheap compared to what, ultra? I wouldn't call $10 a quart cheap for oil. In comparrison to stihl synthetic yes it's cheap.
<snip>

What sort of $ are some of the two stroke oils available there ATM ?

 

[huskystihl]

What sort of $ are some of the two stroke oils available there ATM ?

I'm just saying that if you use a-lot on a daily,weekly or monthly basis the cost of running an oil like stihl synthetic isn't cheap. I'm surely not gonna run outboard in my saws but found that by switching to amsoil at $10 a quart I get 50% more mix for almost half the price. I'm not on this 100:1 thing but haven't seen any issues with running it at 70:1. In fact I tached one of my saws that was running over 14,000 and is now running 13,300 with amsoil, therefore telling me my mixture is richer at 70:1 than it was at 50:1

 

[tdi-rick]

I was just curious what syn 2 stroke lubes were going for ATM.

$10/quart is excellent compared to what oils go for here, and if it's that much cheaper than Ultra I wouldn't hesitate either.
People on here forget that there's a big range of excellent two stroke lubes out there if they'd only look past a saw shop.

Just rang my Castrol supplier, Power 1 Racing TTS is A$19.50/ 1 litre, A65$/4 litres (just over 1 US gallon) and trade price.
Didn't think to ask about A747 or XR77.

Motul 800 2T which is what I primarily use is A$28/1 litre, A$95/4 litres retail.

TTS is a good oil, we used to use an old blend years ago in kart engines that only span to 11,000RPM @ 40:1.
At one stage I thought it might have been the same blend as Ultra, (Castrol blend Ultra, Omni appear to package some in the US) but the flash points are vastly different.

Bear in mind the cheapest bar oil I can get is $3.75/litre bulk. If you buy it pre packaged the cheapest Husky or Dolmar oil is $20/4 litres (1 US gallon for Husky) and Stihl (Castrol) bar oil is cheaper from Stihl than the same Castrol product from my oil distributor but still dearer than the other two...
The price of things here sucks at times.....

 

[eyolf]

pricing in my area:

Cheapest basic-level product in my area is Citgo air-cooled and Citgo snomobile oils. Almost the same product, except the snomo has about 5% more solvent to make it flow in injection pumps easily. $12/gallon. Dino oil with about 10% isobut added, plus some mettalic detergents and other additives.

Citgo oils are available at a <a href="http://www.fleetfarm.com/mff/">Fleet farm chain</a> that also handles <a href= "http://www.comolube.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=arctic_blue.main"> Arctic Blue<a/>. An aquaintance with a degree as chem engineer says the A. Blue gold bottle stuff ($9/Qt, $32/gallon ) is as good as any but super-premium oils like Red Line Kart. I tried it and it burns your eyes like Stihl Ultra, FWIW. OK in a sled, as long as you're the front rider, I guess. I gave the bottle I bought away after one 2-1/2 gallon can of mix.

Echo Powerblend is available at Home Despot for about $8 for the 20 oz measuring bottle. Small engine dealer doesn't handle this size, wants $25 gallon. If as we believe, this is the same as the Citgo, why pay more?

Amzoil dealers want $12 quart for Sabre, but it is a low seller, and most don't stock it.

Got some Honda ATV parts last week and checked price on Klotz and Red Line Kart oil: Red line was $9/pint, Klotz R50 was $14 Quart.

I bought a pint of the Klotz for $8. It smells nice, has that musky smell that brings back memories of racing snomobiles back in the 1970's. But I think I'll continue to use the Citgo oil, since I still have almost 2 gallons of the stuff.

 

[mowoodchopper]

Just use ,used motor oil its free and it might work at 100:1. But since its free you could go crazy and mix it 95:1!

 

[cmarti]

Obviously my arguments against that statement over on BITOG didn't sway you cmarti

I am so confused on oil, I thought I was agreeing with you

Actually, I do not think that varying from a machine maker's recommended ratio will doom the machine. I do agree and respect your knowledge and analysis on 2 cycle oils and extreme ratio's. The specific oil involved has to be part of the ratio equation, would have been a better way for me to phrase my position.

 

[cherrycutter]

Just bought a new 346xp last week have put about 15 tanks thru it since with saber at 80:1. After reading this thread I was curious and pulled my muffler. Piston is new appearing and I could feel that the skirt was "oily". I have experienced better throttle response and almost no odor. I will continue to run the amsoil. I am not convinced enough though to run it at 100:1. Maybe that would be an excuse to buy a wild thing and run it on 100:1 to see how lean I can get the mix before she seizes.

 

[cherrycutter]

I also beleive that this topic has been beaten to death, resurected, killed again, now recycled.

 

[sbhooper]

Cherrycutter

If you buy the cheap saw to try to make it seize, start your test at 125:1, as you will not seize it at 100:1. That would be a real neat test and I have wondered about it myself. I might even have to do that at some point.

There was a bike racer in New Mexico that ran it at 125:1 all season and never broke down his engine until the season was over-no damage, so I don't even know if you can kill it at 125:1.