Why would you want 3/8 instead of .325 on a 550?

[epo]

Narrow kerf chain has been common on Husqvarna saws for many years (they call it ‘Pixel’) and available from Oregon (‘MicroLite’), often designated with a special symbol on the bar or box:
View attachment 1190797
STIHL just got into it a year or two ago (?); not sure what they call it.

Because they chip out less wood (‘narrow kerf’) it makes the saw feel like it has more power.

But they are intended to be used on narrower guide bars (thinner rails, even if the groove gauge remains the same).

One of my Husqvarna saws came with it, and I like it.

Philbert

Stihl introduced .325 in "Narrow Kerf" version somewhere around 2020, they call it Pro. They also recently introduced 3/8 Picco Pro.



Oregon has dropped the Micro-Lite name and calls their system simply "Narrow Kerf."

The problem with Stihl may be that they don't have special guide bars for such chains, unlike Oregon/Husqvarna.

 

[Philbert]

Oregon marketing folks changed a bunch of trade names, a few years back, and tried to group products into ‘families’ that made sense to them.

I still find it as ‘Micro-Lite’, and as ‘SpeedCut’ on their web page.



The increased popularity of battery powered saws has increased the availability of narrow kerf, and low profile, chains.

Hard to keep up, especially, when they keep changing their names!

Philbert

 

[epo]

Oregon marketing folks changed a bunch of trade names, a few years back, and tried to group products into ‘families’ that made sense to them.

I still find it as ‘Micro-Lite’, and as ‘SpeedCut’ on their web page.
View attachment 1190802

View attachment 1190801
The increased popularity of battery powered saws has increased the availability of narrow kerf, and low profile, chains.

Hard to keep up, especially, when they keep changing their names!

Philbert

This is an old PDF, from 2009. 90S has otherwise disappeared from their offerings. All that's left is 90PX, which went into the "AdvanceCut" category.




They use SpeedCut to call their "professional" .325 system with a "narrow kerf" (95 chain + bar).
Additionally, SpeedCut Nano stands for their .325 Low Profile ("High Efficiency") system: 80TXL chain + bar (.043 gauge), drive sprocket.

 

[Philbert]

Yeah, like I said, ‘confusing’.

Both those screen shots in my post were taken today off the Oregon website.

Philbert

 

[J D]

Stihl introduced .325 in "Narrow Kerf" version somewhere around 2020, they call it Pro. They also recently introduced 3/8 Picco Pro.

View attachment 1190798

Oregon has dropped the Micro-Lite name and calls their system simply "Narrow Kerf."

The problem with Stihl may be that they don't have special guide bars for such chains, unlike Oregon/Husqvarna.

The Stihl variant looks to be .043" guage so should inherently be on a narrower bar. The original Oregon/Husqvarna NK is .050" & this has lead to people intermixing the different bars & chains resulting in various issues

 

[epo]

The Stihl variant looks to be .043" guage so should inherently be on a narrower bar. The original Oregon/Husqvarna NK is .050" & this has lead to people intermixing the different bars & chains resulting in various issues

That's right, as far as 3/8 LP/Picco is concerned (although I'm sure there are times when someone tries to use a .043 chain with a .050 bar).
On the other hand, when it comes to .325 in the case of Stihl, problems may also arise, because as in the case of Oregon/Husqvarna, their new .325 NK chain is also .050.
And I think this can create problems when used with a "normal" Stihl bar (they don't have any others), which can probably be related to the issue @PennHavenTW observes.
There may be a similar problem in 3/8 with Hexa, which has a narrower kerf than the "normal" Rapid Super.

 

[PennHavenTW]

So am I understanding correctly that Husqvarna and Oregon are a couple steps ahead of Stihl in this thing of Narrow Kerf bars and chains?

 

[Philbert]

Oregon used to make all of Husqvarna’s (and many other chainsaw manufacturers’) chains. Husqvarna now makes (most?) of their own.

Husqvarna has long supplied narrow kerf chain on many of its smaller and homeowner model saws, including some Poulan, and other brands.

STIHL did not offer them until a few years ago.

So, Oregon, Husqvarna, Carlton and some others, have been offering them longer, but I would not call that ‘steps ahead’.

Key thing is narrow kerf chains (any brand or pitch) should be run on compatible narrow kerf bars.

Philbert

 

[PennHavenTW]

Oregon used to make all of Husqvarna’s (and many other chainsaw manufacturers’) chains.

Husqvarna has long supplied narrow kerf chain on many of its smaller and homeowner models, including Poulan, and other brands.

STIHL did not offer them until a few years ago.

So, they have been offering them longer, but I would not call that ‘steps ahead’.

Key thing is narrow kerf chains (any brand or pitch) should be run on narrow kerf bars.

Philbert

And am I understanding correctly that Stihl has not made a bar especially for Narrow Kerf?

 

[REJ2]

So am I understanding correctly that Husqvarna and Oregon are a couple steps ahead of Stihl in this thing of Narrow Kerf bars and chains?

More than a couple for sure. My 2009 Echo CS530 came with an Oregon made narrow kerf bar and chain.

 

[Philbert]

More than 15 years for sure. My 2009 Echo CS530 came with an Oregon made narrow kerf bar and chain.

My Husqvarna 353 came with a 20”, .325 pitch, 0.050” gauge, narrow kerf chain. My first experience with it.

I liked it (although, I normally run it with a 16”, NK bar).

Oregon offers a laminated (glued) bar that is stiffer than the spot welded ones; a complaint by some (I’ll try to post a link).

NK blades also used on table saws, circular saws, Japanese style pull saws, etc.

Philbert

“Lots of discussions on the Oregon laminated bars in this, older thread, on the narrow kerf bars and chains.

Including some informal testing I did on the bars, regarding weight and flexibility (around Posts #141 - 160).

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/new-oregon-narrow-kerf-chain-and-speedcut-guide-bars.285694/. “

 

[PennHavenTW]

Thanks for your help @Philbert and @epo.

I think I am starting to understand.

I used to work as a two cycle tech that handled a lot of Stihl.

I know Stihl chain fairly well, but Husky and Oregon are foreign to me.

I feel like I have some good leads to pursue!!

Thanks!

 

[epo]

And am I understanding correctly that Stihl has not made a bar especially for Narrow Kerf?

I am not aware of Stihl having any special guide bars for their .325 Pro chains.
You are not the first person to report problems for certain cutting cases with these chains.
If you are adventurous there should be guide bars in the Oregon range designed for Stihl and the 95 "Narrow Kerf" chain.
Oregon SpeedCut:
150TXLGD025 (15'', 64 DL)
160TXLGD025 (16'', 66 DL)
180TXLGD025 (18'', 72 DL)

 

[epo]

More than a couple for sure. My 2009 Echo CS530 came with an Oregon made narrow kerf bar and chain.

Oregon 95 chain was already available in the mid-1990s.

 

[epo]

So am I understanding correctly that Husqvarna and Oregon are a couple steps ahead of Stihl in this thing of Narrow Kerf bars and chains?

Narrower kerf is not only advantages alone. According to Oregon, 95TXL (.325 NK) chain should be used on gas chainsaws with an engine displacement of at most 55 cc. The standard .325 chain is designed for use on chainsaws with engine displacement up to 62 cc. This is confirmed in the standard equipment of Husqvarna chainsaws.

A narrower kerf while keeping other parameters unchanged also means faster dulling.

The notion of “narrow kerf” is relative. Chains of the same pitch and gauge from different (real) manufacturers will vary slightly in kerf width for the same tooth length.

 

[Philbert]

A narrower kerf while keeping other parameters unchanged also means faster dulling.

Why would that be?
Not my experience.

Philbert

 

[J D]

Why would that be?
Not my experience.

Philbert

I'm guessing in the same way that .404 tends to keep an edge longer in dirty wood tha 3/8 does. The difference between normal & NK chain is probably much less significant though

 

[epo]

Why would that be?
Not my experience.

Philbert

I'm guessing in the same way that .404 tends to keep an edge longer in dirty wood tha 3/8 does. The difference between normal & NK chain is probably much less significant though

Yes, here it's actually probably not exactly about the kerf width, but about the amount of material that goes in and around the cutting corner.
And you gave a very good example: semi chisel .404 vs. 3/8. The differences can be dramatic... Not to mention chains with an even narrower kerf, such as 1/4 or 3/8 LP.
In contrast, it is indeed likely that the differences between 95TXL and 20BPX will not be very significant in this regard.

 

[PennHavenTW]

Is there a current document that explains the number in the Oregon chain numbers?

I found this, but it doesn't have the EXL chain, maybe it is rather old. . . . . . ?

 

[epo]

Is there a current document that explains the number in the Oregon chain numbers?

I found this, but it doesn't have the EXL chain, maybe it is rather old. . . . . . ?